New Zealand vs. South Africa - Tri Nations

ironingbored

Score 12-22.

New Zealand need to win this, get a bonus try and deny the saffers a bonus to have a chance of winning the Tri Nations next week against Australia.

They are not at the races today. Too much dead wood in that team.

handsomecake

mark it down lads.................the day rugby as you know it died

handsomecake

francois steyn can only be commended for his prowess and i admire that prodigious boot.HOWEVER his three penalties came from infringements with the allblacks in possession. how can you ever encourage enterprise if you get long arm penalties on your own ball??????? its not like they are killing the ball on their own line with boks in possesion. they are in the opposition half with possession and are trying to attack...................as i said before you are better off now without the ball. bring back the free kick for infringements.otherwise its just american football without the stoppages.




and can someone please smash bakkies bothas face in for him. the amount of off the ball he gets away with is unreal.when du preez scores,he pushes owen franks on to the ground in celebration.

FRANKS IS 5 YARDS FROM THE BALL WITH HIS BACK TO BOTHA.ITS RIDICULOUS

ironingbored

handsomecake wrote: »

mark it down lads.................the day rugby as you know it died

Although it makes for tedious viewing you have to admire SA for their execution.

Having said that this NZ team is a pale imitation of yesteryear.

Their lineout is rubbish. Ireland will give the springbok lineout a better run for its money.

I really don't think Cowan is the answer at 9. Donald is a replacement 10 and nothing else.

how many times has nonu knocked it on?

ironingbored

Great last few minutes now!

thriller in the end. scary watching the all blacks play the way they wanted to.

handsomecake

a rugby match broke out in the end....................................and only one team can leave that park with their heads high. they were in black.the springboks scored nothing with their own nous. a knock on and an intercept. they will lose at least twice on the end of year tour

mikeruurds

handsomecake wrote: »

a rugby match broke out in the end....................................and only one team can leave that park with their heads high. they were in black.the springboks scored nothing with their own nous. a knock on and an intercept. they will lose at least twice on the end of year tour

Good luck with that one. The Boks are the most consistent team in the world this year. Open your other eye.

Top ranked side in the world
World Cup holders
Lions tour winners
Tri nations Champions
Super 14 Champions
Top ranked Sevens side in the world this year.

Begrudgery.

handsomecake

mikeruurds wrote: »

Good luck with that one. The Boks are the most consistent team in the world this year. Open your other eye.

Top ranked side in the world
World Cup holders
Lions tour winners
Tri nations Champions
Super 14 Champions
Top ranked Sevens side in the world this year.

Begrudgery.

they will lose at least two on the end of year tour.

mikeruurds

handsomecake wrote: »

they will lose at least two on the end of year tour.

Thanks for your reasoned point Nostradamus.

handsomecake

mikeruurds wrote: »

Thanks for your reasoned point Nostradamus.

your welcome son

irishbucsfan

mikeruurds wrote: »

Good luck with that one. The Boks are the most consistent team in the world this year. Open your other eye.

Top ranked side in the world
World Cup holders
Lions tour winners
Tri nations Champions
Super 14 Champions
Top ranked Sevens side in the world this year.

Begrudgery.

Ireland have

The grand slam
Magners League
Heineken Cup
Churchill Cup

And have won every single competition they have entered apart from the Challenge Cup, in which the only team we entered was Connacht (who are a developmental side in fairness) and the Sevens (which we don't participate in properly. If we did we'd hockey you so you're lucky on that one )

I'd say that in terms of consistency we're certainly not more than an eyelash behind South Africa.

Not only that, but we managed to achieve all of that playing rugby that is actually fun to watch. Leinster playing one of the most attractive brands of rugby in the world right now and Ireland playing great rugby themselves. And Munster having legends like DOC and POC to keep us amused.

South Africa are certainly the best team in the world right now, but the Irish are second, rankings be damned. And not only that, we handle our post match celebratory drinks far better :cool:


In the end, I think I'm happier to be stuck watching rugby on our miserable little rainy island.

Good Luck in the Autumn Tour.

PS, World Cup was last year and so you can hardly count that as evidence to being consistent this year can you!? England were World Cup holders in 2007 and they're... well lets not get into that.

irishbucsfan

mikeruurds wrote: »

Good luck with that one. The Boks are the most consistent team in the world this year. Open your other eye.

Top ranked side in the world
World Cup holders
Lions tour winners
Tri nations Champions
Super 14 Champions
Top ranked Sevens side in the world this year.

Begrudgery.

Ireland have

The grand slam
Magners League
Heineken Cup
Churchill Cup

And have won every single competition they have entered apart from the Challenge Cup, in which the only team we entered was Connacht (who are a developmental side in fairness) and the Sevens (which we don't participate in properly. If we did we'd hockey you so you're lucky on that one )

I'd say that in terms of consistency we're certainly not more than an eyelash behind South Africa.

Not only that, but we managed to achieve all of that playing rugby that is actually fun to watch. Leinster playing one of the most attractive brands of rugby in the world right now and Ireland playing great rugby themselves. And Munster having legends like DOC and POC to keep us amused.

South Africa are certainly the best team in the world right now, but the Irish are second, rankings be damned. And not only that, we handle our post match celebratory drinks far better :cool:


In the end, I think I'm happier to be stuck watching rugby on our miserable little rainy island.

Good Luck in the Autumn Tour.

PS, World Cup was 2007 and so you can hardly count that as evidence to being consistent this year can you!? England were World Cup holders in 2007 and they're... well lets not get into that.

PhatPiggins

handsomecake wrote: »

they will lose at least two on the end of year tour.

And they wont give a poo if they do. Will probably use it as a developement tour anyway. Best team on the planet by a country mile, would beat a best XV from the rest of the world.

mikeruurds

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ireland have

The grand slam
Magners League
Heineken Cup
Churchill Cup

And have won every single competition they have entered apart from the Challenge Cup, in which the only team we entered was Connacht (who are a developmental side in fairness) and the Sevens (which we don't participate in properly. If we did we'd hockey you so you're lucky on that one )

I'd say that in terms of consistency we're certainly not more than an eyelash behind South Africa.

Not only that, but we managed to achieve all of that playing rugby that is actually fun to watch. Leinster playing one of the most attractive brands of rugby in the world right now and Ireland playing great rugby themselves. And Munster having legends like DOC and POC to keep us amused.

South Africa are certainly the best team in the world right now, but the Irish are second, rankings be damned. And not only that, we handle our post match celebratory drinks far better :cool:


In the end, I think I'm happier to be stuck watching rugby on our miserable little rainy island.

Good Luck in the Autumn Tour.

PS, World Cup was 2007 and so you can hardly count that as evidence to being consistent this year can you!? England were World Cup holders in 2007 and they're... well lets not get into that.

England lost pretty much everything on offer after they won the cup. There's a slight difference.

When was the last time Ireland won three in a row against the ABs?

I'm a big fan of Irish rugby by the way. I just can't understand why so many of you are not willing to appreciate a team that plays winning rugby.

handsomecake

PhatPiggins wrote: »

And they wont give a poo if they do. Will probably use it as a developement tour anyway. Best team on the planet by a country mile, would beat a best XV from the rest of the world.

most teams would beat a "best 15".scratch teams dont work

mikeruurds

handsomecake wrote: »

most teams would beat a "best 15".scratch teams dont work

That's one thing you've said that I do agree with.

I do think that the Lions team this year would beat anyone if they had a better build up though.

Edit: I hope Jean de Villiers plays some top rugby for Munster. He was looking sharp today.

csm

It may not be pretty but the SA team are awesomely effective. If they play their first team in the autumn internationals they'll clean up. Only hope is windy days to negate their kicking somewhat and plenty of scrums as they can be targeted there. Lineout and breakdown play is top notch. They play the ref very well too.

Digifriendly

handsomecake wrote: »

a rugby match broke out in the end....................................and only one team can leave that park with their heads high. they were in black.the springboks scored nothing with their own nous. a knock on and an intercept. they will lose at least twice on the end of year tour

Did not see a knock on. Where was it?

gosplan

Boks are awesome, end of.

People can say the rules need tweaking(again :mad:) and that the physique of professional players has changed the game but that's nothing to do with the Boks, they're just playing to their strengths and trying to win as many games as possible.

Big deal if they play defensive rugby. It's up to attacking teams to come and beat them if they think there's a better way of doing things.

I think a top class rugby-playing French or NZ team would give them a real challenge but there isn't one around now.

BTW, England's world cup was also 'the end of rugby' but I think it's been pretty good since then.

Chucky the tree

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Ireland have

The grand slam
Magners League
Heineken Cup
Churchill Cup

And have won every single competition they have entered apart from the Challenge Cup, in which the only team we entered was Connacht (who are a developmental side in fairness) and the Sevens (which we don't participate in properly. If we did we'd hockey you so you're lucky on that one )[


I'd say that in terms of consistency we're certainly not more than an eyelash behind South Africa.

lol, talk about clutching at straws. Listing the churchill cup is top notch as well. Until we can show we can beat SH teams on a regular basis we are miles behind SA in terms of consistency.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not only that, but we managed to achieve all of that playing rugby that is actually fun to watch. Leinster playing one of the most attractive brands of rugby in the world right now and Ireland playing great rugby themselves. And Munster having legends like DOC and POC to keep us amused.

Fun to watch? The Quinns vs Leinster game didn't even have a try in it, the final was hardly a classic and a neutral watching the semi-final would of switched off at HT as it was over. Most of Irelands 6 nations matches we're awful if you could manage to see it from a neutrals eyes. Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you Irish/Leinster fan and the joy, excitement and delight of winning the GS and HEC actually made the games an enjoyable game of rugby, it didn't. Winning just managed to taint your view of them. This years 6 nations was one of the worst I've had to watch in a long time. Same can probably be said for the tri nations as well.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

South Africa are certainly the best team in the world right now, but the Irish are second, rankings be damned. And not only that, we handle our post match celebratory drinks far better :cool:

Ireland aren't second, Austrailia and NZ would both turn us over if they wanted to and I think France are probably better then us as well.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In the end, I think I'm happier to be stuck watching rugby on our miserable little rainy island.

Good Luck in the Autumn Tour.

PS, World Cup was 2007 and so you can hardly count that as evidence to being consistent this year can you!? England were World Cup holders in 2007 and they're... well lets not get into that.

The fact England lost everything after the WC yet SA have done nearly the opposite highlights how consistent they have been no? Fair enough it's not the same year.

RuggieBear

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, talk about clutching at straws. Listing the churchill cup is top notch as well. Until we can show we can beat SH teams on a regular basis we are miles behind SA in terms of consistency.



Fun to watch? The Quinns vs Leinster game didn't even have a try in it, the final was hardly a classic and a neutral watching the semi-final would of switched off at HT as it was over. Most of Irelands 6 nations matches we're awful if you could manage to see it from a neutrals eyes. Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you Irish/Leinster fan and the joy, excitement and delight of winning the GS and HEC actually made the games an enjoyable game of rugby, it didn't. Winning just managed to taint your view of them. This years 6 nations was one of the worst I've had to watch in a long time. Same can probably be said for the tri nations as well.





Ireland aren't second, Austrailia and NZ would both turn us over if they wanted to and I think France are probably better then us as well.




The fact England lost everything after the WC yet SA have done nearly the opposite highlights how consistent they have been no? Fair enough it's not the same year.

while i more or less agree with you on everything above... just on a point of information there was actually a try scored by harlequins in that 1/4 final.

Last season, Ireland and leinster (and Munster the season before...thought they played some good attacking rugby some of last season) won stuff playing puke rubgy for the most part. Sure there were sparks of great exciting play but the majority of the games were hooving it up in the air and pressurising the catchers. remember TOL box kicking non stop in the first six nations game.

The Ireland Argentina game is probably the worst game of rugby i've seen for a long while.

irishbucsfan

lol, talk about clutching at straws. Listing the churchill cup is top notch as well. Until we can show we can beat SH teams on a regular basis we are miles behind SA in terms of consistency.

(I wasnt going to list the Churchill Cup. But when I saw he listed the 7s World Series I realised I had to list our own mickey mouse successes)

We don't play the SH teams regularly in any form of organised competition so theres no reason for us to objectify success against them. We measure our success by attempting to beat France, Wales or England regularly, and then Scotland and Italy are hardly pushovers. Games against SH teams aren't a good measure of either teams quality because generally those games are played in the Autumn and so the NH team is trying combinations with their eye on February and the SH teams are tired or equally experimental.

Fun to watch? The Quinns vs Leinster game didn't even have a try in it, the final was hardly a classic and a neutral watching the semi-final would of switched off at HT as it was over. Most of Irelands 6 nations matches we're awful if you could manage to see it from a neutrals eyes. Don't delude yourself into thinking that just because you Irish/Leinster fan and the joy, excitement and delight of winning the GS and HEC actually made the games an enjoyable game of rugby, it didn't. Winning just managed to taint your view of them. This years 6 nations was one of the worst I've had to watch in a long time. Same can probably be said for the tri nations as well.

This years 6 Nations was excellent. If Stephen Jones' had half a pound of extra strength in his leg it still would have been excellent. Ireland played 5 games in the 6 nations and 3 of them were poor for the neutral. Fair enough. The 6 nations being good or not isn't exactly down to the Irish team alone, and our 2 most boring games were against Scotland and Italy in fairness. 1) Italy drag teams down to their level and they're feckin good at it. 2) I dont think anything interesting has ever come out of Scotland. Maybe Glasvegas. The England game wasn't great but I don't think we could gameplan well against that England team, considering who and what they are at the moment. O'Driscoll's valiant display made the game interesting though.

Ireland aren't second, Austrailia and NZ would both turn us over if they wanted to and I think France are probably better then us as well.

I don't think you've been watching the tri-nations series... We're ranking teams based on their consistency this season. Ireland won practically everything they entered. Australia played some terrible rugby in the Tri-Nations, very disappointing for me to watch as an adopted citizen down here. Very few positives until that last match. New Zealand aren't the team that they have been. In fact this is probably their worst team of the decade.

The fact England lost everything after the WC yet SA have done nearly the opposite highlights how consistent they have been no? Fair enough it's not the same year.

I understand what your saying. England were crap after they won the World Cup, SA are the best team in the world after they won the World Cup. Farbeit from me to support the English, but they had a pretty big changeover in their squad iirc in 2004. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to detract from what SA are though, which is the best team in the world. I absolutely agree that they are ranked #1 on merit, its just that I dont think we're a mile behind them at all.

irishbucsfan

RuggieBear wrote: »

while i more or less agree with you on everything above... just on a point of information there was actually a try scored by harlequins in that 1/4 final.

Last season, Ireland and leinster (and Munster the season before...thought they played some good attacking rugby some of last season) won stuff playing puke rubgy for the most part. Sure there were sparks of great exciting play but the majority of the games were hooving it up in the air and pressurising the catchers. remember TOL box kicking non stop in the first six nations game.

The Ireland Argentina game is probably the worst game of rugby i've seen for a long while.

The Quins-Leinster game was crap and the Ireland Argentina game was awful as well. The final was an exciting game of rugby. The semi final was excellent, I'm not just saying that from my own Leinster point of view, I know plenty of neutrals who enjoyed the game as well. Leinster played some great rugby. Rocky Elsom gave perhaps one of the greatest single season performances ever given by a flanker in the world of rugby (When I first heard someone say that I thought it was an overstatement, but can you really think of any player playing that well consistently for the time that he did?) O'Driscoll was bang in form from January on. The only thing that held Leinster back was Felipe Contepomi for the most part, who was awful, and when Sexton came on at the end of games they were electric.

You made reference the 1st 6 nations game as being puke ball. I don't understand how you can say that. Both teams were attacking. There was some ridiculously tough tackling in the open field (remember O'Driscoll bulldozing Bastereux?) the French ran the ball excellently, Heaslip and O'Driscoll scored great individual tries. Certainly TOL was kicking a lot, but that didn't result in the same ping pong as some games (*cough*Ireland-England, which was worse) because the French believed in their ability to play running rugby, far more than even we would have backed ourselves. That was a great game and a great opening to the 6 nations. I'll just leave that point by quoting the (English) Sky Sports match report, "an absorbing match which was a fine advert for Northern hemisphere rugby."

And also, just remember that our game against Wales was one of the most exciting finishes to a 6 Nations championship. Maybe ever.

irishbucsfan

mikeruurds wrote: »

England lost pretty much everything on offer after they won the cup. There's a slight difference.

When was the last time Ireland won three in a row against the ABs?

I'm a big fan of Irish rugby by the way. I just can't understand why so many of you are not willing to appreciate a team that plays winning rugby.

I absolutely appreciate South Africa. Maybe what I said sounded competitive but remember that you guys are the best, and I'm a little jealous! You guys are the best team in the world right now. If Ireland and South Africa played tomorrow, I wouldn't even consider backing against SA.

You are the best team in the world right now. But in discussing the most consistent team this year, Ireland are at least on par with you guys.

Chucky the tree

irishbucsfan wrote: »

(I wasnt going to list the Churchill Cup. But when I saw he listed the 7s World Series I realised I had to list our own mickey mouse successes)

At least all the top nations play in the 7's series. If any of the SH teams second a development squad to the churchill cup they most likely would of walked it.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We don't play the SH teams regularly in any form of organised competition so theres no reason for us to objectify success against them. We measure our success by attempting to beat France, Wales or England regularly, and then Scotland and Italy are hardly pushovers. Games against SH teams aren't a good measure of either teams quality because generally those games are played in the Autumn and so the NH team is trying combinations with their eye on February and the SH teams are tired or equally experimental.

We'll our record in organized competition is excactly great either. I agree that the tours aren't great depending on team selections if there was a WC this summer we'd be behind all the SH teams imo.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This years 6 Nations was excellent. If Stephen Jones' had half a pound of extra strength in his leg it still would have been excellent. Ireland played 5 games in the 6 nations and 3 of them were poor for the neutral. Fair enough. The 6 nations being good or not isn't exactly down to the Irish team alone, and our 2 most boring games were against Scotland and Italy in fairness. 1) Italy drag teams down to their level and they're feckin good at it. 2) I dont think anything interesting has ever come out of Scotland. Maybe Glasvegas. The England game wasn't great but I don't think we could gameplan well against that England team, considering who and what they are at the moment. O'Driscoll's valiant display made the game interesting though.

If you mean excellent in terms of standard then you were watching a much different 6nations to one I was. I watched an awful 6nations that consisted of teams either trying to batter the other into submission by using only 8 forwards or else deciding just to hoof the ball up the field if that failed. The only reason the Ireland vs France match was exciting was because france was the only team interested in running the ball while Ireland kicked it down their throats. The fact you say the 6nations was excellent then admit that the majority of the matches Ireland played were awful sums it up. Also the welsh match was a terrible game as well, 3 minutes of excitement at the end doesn't make up for the 77 minutes of dross that proceeded it.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think you've been watching the tri-nations series... We're ranking teams based on their consistency this season. Ireland won practically everything they entered. Australia played some terrible rugby in the Tri-Nations, very disappointing for me to watch as an adopted citizen down here. Very few positives until that last match. New Zealand aren't the team that they have been. In fact this is probably their worst team of the decade.

Fair enough, Ireland are probably the most consistent team behind SA(miles behind) but that's mainly because Ireland avoid playing in competitions that involve SH teams.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I understand what your saying. England were crap after they won the World Cup, SA are the best team in the world after they won the World Cup. Farbeit from me to support the English, but they had a pretty big changeover in their squad iirc in 2004. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to detract from what SA are though, which is the best team in the world. I absolutely agree that they are ranked #1 on merit, its just that I dont think we're a mile behind them at all.

I think if we we're to play 10 test matches they'd win 8 out of those 10. There squad depth is so much better then ours, we'd be stuck between starting an OH who's has been poor in the last few years or one who's never been capped.

PhatPiggins

handsomecake wrote: »

most teams would beat a "best 15".scratch teams dont work

That wasn't my point and you know it. SA probably have 11/12 of the best possible world XV based on current form.

They're an excellent team and your bleating about negative rugby smacks of bitter kiwi. Did you expect them to go to NZ and play running rugby?

irishbucsfan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

At least all the top nations play in the 7's series. If any of the SH teams second a development squad to the churchill cup they most likely would of walked it.

7s is a completely different sport, but fair play to them for succeding at it. I'm not going to concede that the fact that Ireland aren't winning a sport they don't even officially play is a bad merit for us.

We'll our record in organized competition is excactly great either. I agree that the tours aren't great depending on team selections if there was a WC this summer we'd be behind all the SH teams imo.

Well I disagree. Declan Kidney has turned the Irish into a winning team. We've beaten the French, who made the ABs look poor at times. We've beaten the Welsh who are an excellent team in their own right. Maybe our front row isn't world class (neither is theirs) and we're weaker in the axis than SA but I'd say that the Irish would give the Saffers a heck of a game and they're certainly ahead of the Australians at the moment. Henry hasn't exactly got the ABs playing fantastically well right now either. We're better than the ABs in a lot of positions.

If you mean excellent in terms of standard then you were watching a much different 6nations to one I was. I watched an awful 6nations that consisted of teams either trying to batter the other into submission by using only 8 forwards or else deciding just to hoof the ball up the field if that failed. The only reason the Ireland vs France match was exciting was because france was the only team interested in running the ball while Ireland kicked it down their throats. The fact you say the 6nations was excellent then admit that the majority of the matches Ireland played were awful sums it up. Also the welsh match was a terrible game as well, 3 minutes of excitement at the end doesn't make up for the 77 minutes of dross that proceeded it.

It's really hard to quantify what makes for enjoyable rugby so an argument about the 6 Nations isn't really worth much. It's very probable that I'm remembering it better than it was for obvious reasons. However, I think most people will agree that the tri-nations hasn't exactly set the world of rugby entertainment alight either.

Fair enough, Ireland are probably the most consistent team behind SA(miles behind) but that's mainly because Ireland avoid playing in competitions that involve SH teams.

How come we're miles behind? The Lions outscored the Saffers over the series, they hardly looked like they were miles ahead of them and it could very very easilly have gone the other way. They have been beaten in the tri nations wheareas Ireland have not lost a game of competitive rugby this year. Don't see that we're miles behind.

We don't avoid playing SH teams, we don't play them because they're on the other side of the world. It's a logistical problem. I think you believe that SH rugby is a step above NH rugby, despite its many flaws. I don't believe that at all.

I think if we we're to play 10 test matches they'd win 8 out of those 10. There squad depth is so much better then ours, we'd be stuck between starting an OH who's has been poor in the last few years or one who's never been capped.

I think it'd be 50 50. We have great depth as well. They aren't exactly hugely gifted at 10 either, Pienaar is good but not great, Steyn is not a great OH either. They'd far outmatch us at 9 but that's not a gamewinning position. We have excellent depth in the outside backs (not to mention our starters are arguably better) and our pack is possibly the best in international rugby. Sure, they have a great backrow, but we have Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip. I'd take our backrow over anything else in world rugby at the moment. Our 2nd row is just as good as theirs (that would be an awesome matchup) and neither team beats the other in the front row.

Not to mention we don't have to put up with that clown De Villiers as a head coach!

Is it worth watching or is it more boring Boks ****?

Chucky the tree

How come we're miles behind? The Lions outscored the Saffers over the series, they hardly looked like they were miles ahead of them and it could very very easilly have gone the other way. They have been beaten in the tri nations wheareas Ireland have not lost a game of competitive rugby this year. Don't see that we're miles behind.

The lions aren't Ireland. So because Ireland havent been beaten this year and SA have it means we aren't that far apart? I'd love to see Irelands record are having played NZx3 and Austrailia x3, I seriously doubt it would read won 5 lost 1. SA play far better teams in the tri-nations then we do in the 6nations.

We don't avoid playing SH teams, we don't play them because they're on the other side of the world. It's a logistical problem. I think you believe that SH rugby is a step above NH rugby, despite its many flaws. I don't believe that at all.

We'll when we play them in WC's we get beaten, even the friendlies we have a very poor record. Of course I believe SH rugby is a step up, I can't see how someone can think otherwise. The autumn and summer tests are constantly being won by SH teams. SA and NZ clean sweeped everyone last august, Australia only lost once I think to Wales.

I think it'd be 50 50. We have great depth as well. They aren't exactly hugely gifted at 10 either, Pienaar is good but not great, Steyn is not a great OH either. They'd far outmatch us at 9 but that's not a gamewinning position. We have excellent depth in the outside backs (not to mention our starters are arguably better) and our pack is possibly the best in international rugby. Sure, they have a great backrow, but we have Ferris, Wallace and Heaslip. I'd take our backrow over anything else in world rugby at the moment. Our 2nd row is just as good as theirs (that would be an awesome matchup) and neither team beats the other in the front row.

Not to mention we don't have to put up with that clown De Villiers as a head coach!

Ireland have great depth? Steyn not a great OH? Ireland the best pack in international rugby? I certainly don't agree with any of that.

PhatPiggins

Drew Inexpensive Ultrasound wrote: »

Is it worth watching or is it more boring Boks ****?

Well worth watching, great finish.

Ciaran-Irl

PhatPiggins wrote: »

That wasn't my point and you know it. SA probably have 11/12 of the best possible world XV based on current form.

They're an excellent team and your bleating about negative rugby smacks of bitter kiwi. Did you expect them to go to NZ and play running rugby?

The South African's are the best team in the world, but this is daft. The Lions came close to beating them over the three tests. If you improved the Lions side with some of the best Australian and NZ players, they would have walked it. Replace Croft with Rocky for example. Bring in Dan Carter for Stephen Jones. Bring McCaw in for Wallace. You're having a laugh if you think that SA would beat a rest of the world team.

That doesn't change the fact that they are the best individual nation right now.

Oh, and no, they are not consistant. They threw away games to Australia and the Lions. That meant they lack consistancy. About all the lack really, but still true.

handsomecake

PhatPiggins wrote: »

That was not my point and you know it. SA probably have 11/12 of the best possible world XV based on current form.

They're an excellent team and your bleating about negative rugby smacks of bitter kiwi. Did you expect them to go to NZ and play running rugby?

listen lads .south africa aint the best team in the world.their deficincies are glaring.
last year the elv's were in and they were hammered at home. in fact i think they were nilled in one game at home against the kiwis.the elv's are gone now and in fairness to them they got the jump on everyone else. essentially ten or twelve of the players on both sides are the same as last year.SO WHATS CHANGED??? the rules have!!!!.they have adapted back better. they are a mirror image of england o3. a robot for a flyhalf and 8 man mountains up front. pierre spies was one of the most electric players i have seen in the super 14 this year.stick a green jersey on his back and he hasnt done a jot all tournament. bryan habanas new job is to chase kicks,not score tries.
this team has ZERO enterprise and ZERO nous. ireland are the perfect team to play them because when we want to we dont have to let the ball go past o gara either. we have a big pack and an efficient flyhalf.the match in the autumn will be kearney feilding kicks and kicking them back,and steyn fielding kicks and kicking them back. your going to think your at croker for the international rules series.

well what happens next?
one of two things in my opinion.
1:either the rules change back again and teams will enterprise and create and players like cedric heymans ,masaga,david strettle,ben foden will be in vogue.
2: or they stay the same and every other nation just copies the springboks (who to their credit have adapted best and much sooner then everyone else).in this instance players like damien traille will be at full back kicking the leather off everything that comes to them ,never even considering to counter.the likes of masaga and hosea gear,digby ione ,nokwe, WONT be picked due to a lack of kicking and catching prowess.
your quintissential fijiian flyer out wide will be replaced by a pragmatic replacement out half with a prodigioius boot and nothing else.
when the crusaders played the bulls in the super 14 ,they played colin slade on the wing. he had been outhalf for the most of the competition.

are the springboks the best in the world??? i dont think so. not in the sense of rugby as I KNOW IT.i think they have the perfect exponents of the current rules,with du preez (best scrum half around no question) and steyn...a robot who has no inclination to run the ball.throw in the modern aerodynamic rugby ball and francois steyn (who is a distinctly average full back) ,but has a freakish right peg.

south africa are the new world order in rugby after a couple of years of rule changes and experiments.the rest of the rugby world doesnt know whether to stick or twist as it goes against everything they know.


we will just have to see.

irishbucsfan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The lions aren't Ireland. So because Ireland havent been beaten this year and SA have it means we aren't that far apart? I'd love to see Irelands record are having played NZx3 and Austrailia x3, I seriously doubt it would read won 5 lost 1. SA play far better teams in the tri-nations then we do in the 6nations.

Yeah fair point. They have been excellent. But we never get the chance to play teams of that quality 6 times a year. We can only judge both teams on what they've been given the chance to do this year. South Africa have been successful against every one they've played. So have Ireland.

We'll when we play them in WC's we get beaten, even the friendlies we have a very poor record. Of course I believe SH rugby is a step up, I can't see how someone can think otherwise. The autumn and summer tests are constantly being won by SH teams. SA and NZ clean sweeped everyone last august, Australia only lost once I think to Wales.

Yeah you're right on that one. The best 3 SH teams have historically been better than the best NH teams. If there was a competition between our top 4 teams and the top 4 SH teams then it would probably be a Southern Hemisphere team that won it. Thats only at international level though. Heineken Cup Rugby, Guinness Premiership, Magners League and Top 14 rugby is better than any club rugby on offer in the Southern Hemisphere. You could argue that that's a money issue, but that's the way it is. There are maybe 3 or 4 Super 14 teams that could compete with the top 10 or 12 NH club teams.

If you're saying that Southern Hemisphere International teams are better then yes you're one hundred percent right, and probably always will be whilst the Tri-Nations exists.

Ireland have great depth? Steyn not a great OH? Ireland the best pack in international rugby? I certainly don't agree with any of that.

Ourselves and South Africa both could argue that they have the best loose 5 in international rugby. Neither team has a top 3 front row. I value the loose 5 higher because that's what I know, so I would say that the best pack in international rugby is South Africa or Ireland, and when I consider the players closer I'd take the Irish over the SA team. (If I picked a team between them I'd take POC and Matfield, and then Heaslip, Ferris at 6 and 8 with one of the SAs at 7)

Steyn isn't a great OH... what has he done great in an international jersey?

Chucky the tree

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Steyn isn't a great OH... what has he done great in an international jersey?

Scored all his sides 31 points against NZ, 24 points from 29 against Australia. He's played 6 matches(started 5) and scored 95 points in the tri-nations, very impressive record imo.

mikeruurds

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Steyn isn't a great OH... what has he done great in an international jersey?

Helped get us our first Tri nations in 5 years. Solid off the tee and a handy enough tactical kicker.

I also vaguely remember him holding his nerve to slot a long distance penalty to win us the Lions decider.

He's done quite a bit in his brief time playing for the Boks.

handsomecake

handsomecake wrote: »

listen lads .south africa aint the best team in the world.their deficincies are glaring.
last year the elv's were in and they were hammered at home. in fact i think they were nilled in one game at home against the kiwis.the elv's are gone now and in fairness to them they got the jump on everyone else. essentially ten or twelve of the players on both sides are the same as last year.SO WHATS CHANGED??? the rules have!!!!.they have adapted back better. they are a mirror image of england o3. a robot for a flyhalf and 8 man mountains up front. pierre spies was one of the most electric players i have seen in the super 14 this year.stick a green jersey on his back and he hasnt done a jot all tournament. bryan habanas new job is to chase kicks,not score tries.
this team has ZERO enterprise and ZERO nous. ireland are the perfect team to play them because when we want to we dont have to let the ball go past o gara either. we have a big pack and an efficient flyhalf.the match in the autumn will be kearney feilding kicks and kicking them back,and steyn fielding kicks and kicking them back. your going to think your at croker for the international rules series.

well what happens next?
one of two things in my opinion.
1:either the rules change back again and teams will enterprise and create and players like cedric heymans ,masaga,david strettle,ben foden will be in vogue.
2: or they stay the same and every other nation just copies the springboks (who to their credit have adapted best and much sooner then everyone else).in this instance players like damien traille will be at full back kicking the leather off everything that comes to them ,never even considering to counter.the likes of masaga and hosea gear,digby ione ,nokwe, WONT be picked due to a lack of kicking and catching prowess.
your quintissential fijiian flyer out wide will be replaced by a pragmatic replacement out half with a prodigioius boot and nothing else.
when the crusaders played the bulls in the super 14 ,they played colin slade on the wing. he had been outhalf for the most of the competition.

are the springboks the best in the world??? i dont think so. not in the sense of rugby as I KNOW IT.i think they have the perfect exponents of the current rules,with du preez (best scrum half around no question) and steyn...a robot who has no inclination to run the ball.throw in the modern aerodynamic rugby ball and francois steyn (who is a distinctly average full back) ,but has a freakish right peg.

south africa are the new world order in rugby after a couple of years of rule changes and experiments.the rest of the rugby world doesnt know whether to stick or twist as it goes against everything they know.


we will just have to see.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6832180.ece
at least someone agrees with me and its not all in my head

handsomecake

handsomecake wrote: »

they will lose at least two on the end of year tour.

one down.one to go

handsomecake

mikeruurds wrote: »

Thanks for your reasoned point Nostradamus.

your welcome

thomond2006

I detest self-praise.

handsomecake

thomond2006 wrote: »

I detest self-praise.

well who else will bump it????
he was smart enought to make the comment at the time but his silence is deafening tonight after they lost to a club.

thomond2006

handsomecake wrote: »

well who else will bump it????
he was smart enought to make the comment at the time but his silence is deafening tonight after they lost to a club.

Who cares?

handsomecake

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who cares?

handsomecake cares

Crash

Crash doesn't.