NGB oversight of Club matches

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Well, I don't know the specifics of the shoot in the midlands, but say DURC had a club air pistol shoot - it'd have no involvement from the NTSA. The NGBs only get involved when it's a national or higher level competition, or if the club asks them to become involved.

It's a bit more formal than that Sparks. The NTSA are the national governing body for ISSF rifle and pistol shooting in Ireland. That means that they have a responsibility to make sure that matches run under that banner are run properly with the correct supports. After all, even if it's a club shoot, participants should reasonably expect that their scores at these matches are noted by the NGB and that their fellow competitors are competing properly within the rules.

We may not run the competitions, but we do have a responsibility to make sure they are run properly and by properly affiliated clubs.

The FAI or the IRFU wouldn't countenance other organisations running Rugby Union or Soccer matches within Ireland, and quite rightly as the end result would be a complete dilution of their efforts.

Even for the club shooter, it's important that they can see a direct and unbroken line from their match participation right up to the top level of organisation within the sport. For those that aren't interested in competing at the highest level, the fact that they are competing shoulder to shoulder with someone who is, makes the relationship much more immediate and meaningful.

jaycee

OMG ...

Lads I just discovered that the 27th date clashes with lots of stuff .
On that date ..

Macra na feirme has an event organised to Climb Croagh Patrick.
TG4 All-Ireland Intermediate Ladies Football Final in Croke Park is on at 2:00pm.

Theres also a Pilgrimmage to Knock planned by another group.

UCD Rifle Club have round 7 of their Summer Air League ,

ISSF rules apply ..or I think so as it says that * ISSF rules will apply unless stated otherwise. I'm really confused now ... So they would consider shooting a competition that wasnt strictly within ISSF rules ? Would that be tolerated ?

Of course it would. Its a club running a competition for its members and more luck to them.

Should we inform all the kids planning to have a kick around using jumpers for goalposts ..to discontinue such unregulated and damaging activitys . It will clearly be the end of the IRFU and the FAI .. :rolleyes:

An argument that a bunch of 9 year olds on a village green would have to be approved first is laughable . If that were the case we would have had No Pele who learned some of his remarkable skills in the beckstreets of Sao Paulo in Brasil .. I wonder what the FAI would make of the fact that due to poverty he could not afford a proper football and usually played with either a sock stuffed with newspaper, tied with a string or a grapefruit.

I sincerely hope , that in the future years on any given Saturday or Sunday people are faced with as many choices of venues to shoot at as possible.
I would encourage every range in Ireland to promote their sport and organise whatever it pleases for the enjoyment of its members in what ever form it takes.

Any club or Range has the right .. cause they will have paid for it, to run competitions for its members as it sees fit. The more the better. If people want to progress to a different level or seek to represent their country in a more formalised manner , that is their choice.

If they want to take part in a sport for the pure enjoyment of it that is their right too.

BTW .. With regard to the clash in dates , pure coincidence, nothing more as are the ones listed above and I wish all those attending Lough Bo the very best of luck . The forecast is good I believe and I look forward to hearing how it went.

rrpc

Touchy aren't we?

jaycee

rrpc wrote: »

Touchy aren't we?

I'm not at all touchy , If anything, I found some of the arguments amusing..

I fail to see what a personal comment has to do with anything. ?

To continue with the soccer theme ..
' Play the ball not the man.'

rrpc

jaycee wrote: »

I'm not at all touchy , If anything, I found some of the arguments amusing..

I fail to see what a personal comment has to do with anything. ?

To continue with the soccer theme ..
' Play the ball not the man.'

I only play straw men

IRLConor

If either of ye want to be touchy, then get a room. (i.e. take it to PM)

Back on topic please.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

even if it's a club shoot, participants should reasonably expect that their scores at these matches are noted by the NGB and that their fellow competitors are competing properly within the rules.

But the NTSA doesn't track 10-shot matches. Or shooting at foam rubber pigs with air rifles. Or any of the other novelty shoots we'd run in DURC. Or the 20-shot and 30-shot matches we'd run for fun.

If we're running an Open, that's a different ball of wax. But even large competitions aren't always overseen by the NGB - the Colours match, for example, is explicitly not overseen by the NTSA (the Intervarsities are a grayer area, since we only have the two college clubs at present, but generally the NTSA doesn't get involved).

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

But the NTSA doesn't track 10-shot matches. Or shooting at foam rubber pigs with air rifles. Or any of the other novelty shoots we'd run in DURC. Or the 20-shot and 30-shot matches we'd run for fun.

Is this National strawman day?

If we're running an Open, that's a different ball of wax. But even large competitions aren't always overseen by the NGB - the Colours match, for example, is explicitly not overseen by the NTSA (the Intervarsities are a grayer area, since we only have the two college clubs at present, but generally the NTSA doesn't get involved).

Well there's always involvement even if it's just that the colours match is being run or RO'd by the airgun coordinator, or the rifle coordinator or various other office holders who volunteer their time to help run the thing.

And the scores are noted, even if only at an informal 'X is shooting well' or 'Y has slipped a bit' kind of level.

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

Well there's always involvement

No, there isn't, not officially. It's not the airgun coordinator supervising the shoot - it's the shoot being held on the only available neutral territory (and the proximity of a bar for post-match cheese toasties is an unrelated fringe benefit ). And those others who hold NTSA posts are not there on an official basis during the match. This all came to a head under another collegiate officer a few years ago - and the opinions expressed, quite forcibly and rather impolitely even, as I recall, were that the NTSA and the Colours were unrelated sides of the world, and that it was ever thus, and that no introduction of a supervisory or oversight-related role for the NTSA would be tolerated by either college.

And as I recall, after tempers had died down, the current state of informal and unofficial relations returned to its previous status as "the way we do things".

And the scores are noted, even if only at an informal 'X is shooting well' or 'Y has slipped a bit' kind of level.

Yes - informally. Unofficially.
Besides, the Colours breaks the ISSF rules anyway - individual results unannounced, teams not 3 shooters in size, women shooting 60 shots, and so on.

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

If you want a discussion of the responsibilities of NGBs then kick one off.

Fair point, splitting the thread now.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

No, there isn't, not officially. It's not the airgun coordinator supervising the shoot - it's the shoot being held on the only available neutral territory (and the proximity of a bar for post-match cheese toasties is an unrelated fringe benefit ). And those others who hold NTSA posts are not there on an official basis during the match. This all came to a head under another collegiate officer a few years ago - and the opinions expressed, quite forcibly and rather impolitely even, as I recall, were that the NTSA and the Colours were unrelated sides of the world, and that it was ever thus, and that no introduction of a supervisory or oversight-related role for the NTSA would be tolerated by either college.

You forgot to quote the 'even if it's just' and the word used was involvement not oversight, so although your historical retrospective was entertaining it wasn't very germane.

And then you agreed with my main point which is that there's always some level of involvement. Some times that's just logistical support, toasties or a helpline which we've all been part of at some stage or other.

It's not a 'big brother' thing and many clubs don't need it, but it's always available at a moments notice which is the most important part of any support system.