TNA NO SURRENDER PPV *Spoilers*

JP Liz

TNA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Sting vs. AJ Styles vs. Matt Morgan vs. Champion Kurt Angle

"THE BOSS" MAKES HIS PAY-PER-VIEW DEBUT
"The Boss" Bobby Lashley vs. "The War Machine" Rhino

TNA X DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Daniels vs. champion Samoa Joe

TNA LETHAL LOCKDOWN
Beer Money vs. Team 3D vs. Scott Steiner & Booker T vs. British Invasion

$50,000 BOUNTY VS. THE LEGENDS CHAMPIONSHIP
Abyss vs. Champion Kevin Nash

Snakeblood

JP Liz wrote: »

TNA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Sting vs. AJ Styles vs. Matt Morgan vs. Champion Kurt Angle

"THE BOSS" MAKES HIS PAY-PER-VIEW DEBUT
"The Boss" Bobby Lashley vs. "The War Machine" Rhino

TNA X DIVISION CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH
Daniels vs. champion Samoa Joe

TNA LETHAL LOCKDOWN
Beer Money vs. Team 3D vs. Scott Steiner & Booker T vs. British Invasion

$50,000 BOUNTY VS. THE LEGENDS CHAMPIONSHIP
Abyss vs. Champion Kevin Nash

I miss 'God Of Thunder' Bobby Lashley.

flahavaj

"THE BOSS" MAKES HIS PAY-PER-VIEW DEBUT



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

:pac:

Nothing overly inspiring on that card to be honest. Interested to see what a deteriorated Joe of 2009 can do against Daniels compared to their matches 3-4 years ago.

the flananator

If done right, The Lethal Lockdown match could be tremendous.

The main event will be very interesting to watch as it will basically determine the main event of BFG. I can see AJ taking the title, leading to AJ vs. Sting at BFG in Sting's retirement match. Man, that match could be great. That would leave Morgan vs. Angle at BFG in some kind of grudge match, or perhaps Lashley vs. Angle.

Lashley/Rhino could be a fun squash.

Lets hope Nash/Abyss isn't terrible.

Machismo Fan

I actually think TNA has a lot of interesting scenario's that could come from the main event. AJ could win to set up Sting vs. AJ for the title at BFG leaving Angle vs. Lashley or Morgan vs. Angle at BFG (I'd say this is the most likely option), Sting could win to set up Sting vs. AJ for the title at BFG and Angle could win to set up Angle vs. Lashley or Angle vs. Morgan for the title at BFG while still leaving AJ vs. Sting in the retirement match.

To be fair, Foley and Nash blew me out of the water in comparison to my expectations so lets hope Nash/Abyss does the same.:) Daniels/Joe should be great and hopefully Joe will be back to his best (he certainly looks like it, he's been on good form in recent months). ODB vs. Deaner for the Knockouts title will be there which will hopefully end that nonsense.

The tag division in TNA is great at the moment and that match should be no exception as there's some great talent in there. I'd say they're building towards Beer Money regaining the tag titles and 3D regaining the IWGP tag titles at BFG.

There'll also be the crowning of the first Knockout tag champs.

MuscleShark

I wish TNA Bound For Glory Would Headline The Main Event Mafia(Angle, Nash, Steiner and Booker against the TNA frontline(AJ, Cristopher Daniels, Samoa Joe and Sting) in a loser dies match. The Monster Ball match should be Abyss VS Mick Foley tag title Machine guns vs beer money vs LAX and someone legends for example hulk hogan make one night apperance. Thats some of my ideas. These days wathching TNA not as good back then and i dont know why some story doesnt make sense. I think british invasion and world elite are rubbish should take them out. TNA knockouts been the best since they come to tna back in 2007 the divison always consistently performing

the flananator

MuscleShark wrote: »

I wish TNA Bound For Glory Would Headline The Main Event Mafia(Angle, Nash, Steiner and Booker against the TNA frontline(AJ, Cristopher Daniels, Samoa Joe and Sting) in a loser dies match. The Monster Ball match should be Abyss VS Mick Foley tag title Machine guns vs beer money vs LAX and someone legends for example hulk hogan make one night apperance. Thats some of my ideas. These days wathching TNA not as good back then and i dont know why some story doesnt make sense. I think british invasion and world elite are rubbish should take them out. TNA knockouts been the best since they come to tna back in 2007 the divison always consistently performing

Do you even watch TNA?

I like your idea of a multi-man in the main event of BFG, but your version is seriously flawed. Firstly, Joe is a member of the MEM. Secondly, Beer Money need to regain the titles from Steiner and Booker at BFG in order to keep them hot. Moreover, the Frontline is more or less none-existant as a faction at the moment and the apparent war between the two sides hasn't really been formally mentioned in months, so having the end game match now would mean nothing.

Other problems with yor post; can you really see Foley wrestling a Monster Ball match in 2009? He's obese. Also, take LAX out of the tag title match because they've been split up. And don't hold your breath for a Hogan appearence.

I think a more like BFG card will look like this;

Loser Retires: Sting vs. AJ Stlyes

TNA World Title: Kurt Angle vs. Matt Morgan

Booby Lashely vs. Kevin Nash

TNA X Division Title: Samoa Joe vs. Daniels (some sort of gimmick match)

Tag Titles: Beer Money vs. Steiner/Booker

Hernandes vs. Homicide, or perhaps a Monsters Ball with Hernandes, Team 3D, and Abyss opposing the World Elite).

flahavaj

the flananator wrote: »

Booby Lashely vs. Kevin Nash

EPIC, epic typo.:pac:

Machismo Fan

the flananator wrote: »

Other problems with yor post; can you really see Foley wrestling a Monster Ball match in 2009? He's obese. Also, take LAX out of the tag title match because they've been split up. And don't hold your breath for a Hogan appearence.

I think a more like BFG card will look like this;

Loser Retires: Sting vs. AJ Stlyes

TNA World Title: Kurt Angle vs. Matt Morgan

Booby Lashely vs. Kevin Nash

TNA X Division Title: Samoa Joe vs. Daniels (some sort of gimmick match)

Tag Titles: Beer Money vs. Steiner/Booker

Hernandes vs. Homicide, or perhaps a Monsters Ball with Hernandes, Team 3D, and Abyss opposing the World Elite).

To be fair, a Foley/Abyss hardcore gimmick match at BFG is highly likely. It's already simmering. I'd say at BFG it'll be either Hernandez vs. Homicide or vs. EY. One will be done at No Surrender and the other at BFG in my opinion. Joe vs. Daniels 30 minute Iron Man I'd say or two out of three falls. And I think they'll go with Angle vs. Lashley with Morgan as guest enforcer or Angle vs. Morgan with Lashley as guest enforcer.

By the way - BFG Poster:

MuscleShark

the flananator wrote: »

Do you even watch TNA?

I like your idea of a multi-man in the main event of BFG, but your version is seriously flawed. Firstly, Joe is a member of the MEM. Secondly, Beer Money need to regain the titles from Steiner and Booker at BFG in order to keep them hot. Moreover, the Frontline is more or less none-existant as a faction at the moment and the apparent war between the two sides hasn't really been formally mentioned in months, so having the end game match now would mean nothing.

Other problems with yor post; can you really see Foley wrestling a Monster Ball match in 2009? He's obese. Also, take LAX out of the tag title match because they've been split up. And don't hold your breath for a Hogan appearence.

I think a more like BFG card will look like this;

Loser Retires: Sting vs. AJ Stlyes

TNA World Title: Kurt Angle vs. Matt Morgan

Booby Lashely vs. Kevin Nash

TNA X Division Title: Samoa Joe vs. Daniels (some sort of gimmick match)

Tag Titles: Beer Money vs. Steiner/Booker

Hernandes vs. Homicide, or perhaps a Monsters Ball with Hernandes, Team 3D, and Abyss opposing the World Elite).

I do watch TNA ever since back in Nashsville Asylum and i dont think i ever missed Impact show if i ever missed it i watch the video from TNA wrestling website. That thing that i posted just my ideas how TNA should be right now. Come on tell me why the hell Samoa Joe want to join Main event mafia that doesnt make any sense and tell me who is fighting MEM? TNA currently pushing only Bobby Lashley to fight MEM it should be the originals who stop MEM not only one guy. For steiner and Booker T they should put that title on the line against machine guns or LAX but they broke up now so that wasnt possible. Mick Foley still could wrestle did you watch the match against Nash month ago?. Everyone knows TNA bookings were terrible and they need to change that. Dont get me wrong i love TNA wrestling more than any other company because this company is the closest thing that can compete with WWE and its more entertaining(x division match suppose). Since Vince Russo take over the bookings back late 2006 nearly all TNA storyline wasnt up to the expectations. We all could just hope that TNA can come back and be more entertaining just like we see the rise of Aj Styles Cris Daniels Abyss Samoa joe and so on

Machismo Fan

In fairness, for all my criticisms of Russo in the last month or two, he along with Dixie Carter have actually done a hell of a job giving TNA a more defined direction and beginning to establish new top of the card talent.

EdK

Machismo Fan wrote: »

In fairness, for all my criticisms of Russo in the last month or two, he along with Dixie Carter have actually done a hell of a job giving TNA a more defined direction and beginning to establish new top of the card talent.

A long term direction apparently things are looking much better with them these days I must say

MuscleShark

Machismo Fan wrote: »

In fairness, for all my criticisms of Russo in the last month or two, he along with Dixie Carter have actually done a hell of a job giving TNA a more defined direction and beginning to establish new top of the card talent.

Watched last night TNA Impact it was entertaining wasnt bad after all. Awesome Kong building hype with Tara was good, Roxxi returns good, Morgan Angle segments good, Foley rescuing Abyss good and it was sad that homicide turns against his buddies to join world elite. Suprisingly i think world elite is much better than MEM eric young can definitely act as heel definitely wil follow that storyline.

JP Liz

Has there been any build up for Rhino V Lashley? It seemed to come from no where

I expect Hernandez V Eric Young or Hernandez V Homicide and Pope V Suicide also to be added

EdK

JP Liz wrote: »

Has there been any build up for Rhino V Lashley? It seemed to come from no where

I expect Hernandez V Eric Young or Hernandez V Homicide and Pope V Suicide also to be added

I came from Rhino being named as Bobbys first opponent by Dixie Carter and then Rhino attacking Lashley in the gym

michael.etc...

JP Liz wrote: »

Has there been any build up for Rhino V Lashley? It seemed to come from no where

In fairness, it's the PPV debut of Lashley that has the hype, rather than the opponent. Whether or not he'll draw a few buys extra is debately, but that's the logic. Rhino's just a fairly recognizable name who'll job to him, and hopefully look decent in the process.

I would have re-worded the poster though... "MMA Superstar makes his epic TNA PPV in-ring debut".

DM_7

Rhino did attack Lashley this week when Bobby was working out.

JP Liz

TNA World Heavyweight Championship - Fatal Four Way
- Kurt Angle (c) vs. Matt Morgan vs. AJ Styles vs. Sting.

- Bobby Lashley vs. Rhino.

TNA X Division Championship
- Samoa Joe (c) vs. Daniels.

Lethal Lockdown Match
- Beer Money vs. Team 3D vs. TNA World Tag Team Champions Booker T & Scott Steiner vs. IWGP Tag Team Champions The British Invasion.

$50,000 Bounty vs. TNA Legends Championship
- Abyss vs. Kevin Nash.

- Hernandez vs. Eric Young.

TNA Knockouts Championship
- ODB vs. Cody Deaner.

Finals of the TNA Knockouts Tag Team Championship Tournament
- The Beautiful People vs. Taylor Wilde & Sarita.

Machismo Fan

JP Liz wrote: »

Lethal Lockdown Match
- Beer Money vs. Team 3D vs. TNA World Tag Team Champions Booker T & Scott Steiner vs. IWGP Tag Team Champions The British Invasion.

I think there's a mistake on the website here as it was presented on TV as 3D and Beer Money vs. Booker and Steiner and TBI.

Machismo Fan

From JB's Twitter:

Shannon Moore and Larry Zbyszko are visiting backstage at the Pay Per View.

Good catching up with Ed Ferarra, who is backstage helping behind the scenes. No Surrender will be eventful! 8pm est tonight on PPV!

EdK

Added to No Surrender tonight, Suicide takes on the Pope D'Angelo Dinero in a falls count anywhere match!

JP Liz

NEW TNA champion: AJ Styles

EdK

Actually turned out to be a pretty good show, I enjoyed it anyway

Machismo Fan

I'll admit that there was a tear in my eye when AJ won the title. Some of the best pictures from No Surrender:

flahavaj

EdK wrote: »

Actually turned out to be a pretty good show, I enjoyed it anyway

How did Lashley look lads?

Machismo Fan

flahavaj wrote: »

How did Lashley look lads?

He was alright. The crowd couldn't really have cared less but that was the case for a lot of the show. The finish was crappy though- a knockout punch type thing.

gimmick

Machismo Fan wrote: »

I'll admit that there was a tear in my eye when AJ won the title. Some of the best pictures from No Surrender:

Fantastic pic. Delighted that AJ is champion. Great to see new blood at the top of the ladder. I hope they manage this one well now.

Machismo Fan

AJ Styles No Surrender post show celebration:

Dixie Carter presents AJ with the TNA World Title:

MuscleShark

Finally AJ styles wins the heavyweight title. I could be wrong is this his first heavyweight title since 2005? Finally the TNA originals superstar became TNA heayweight Champion

Furious-Red

Actually really enjoyed the ppv , both womens matches were good and got a decent enough time . Main Event was good , so was the street fight and the Lethal Lockdown match. Def one of the best ppvs tna have had in a long time lets hope they build BFG up the right way . Great to see AJ as champ

michael.etc...

I'm gonna play Devil's advocate, and say that I thought the PPV was a waste of time.

Haven't caught the whole thing yet- but what I have seen hasn't impressed me, and what I haven't- i have no desire to, which is generally TNA's single biggest problem.
The Main Event was really bland, though I liked the dynamic between Morgan and Angle. It's great to see AJ with the belt, but for me, this wasn't the way to do it at all.

Lashley's debut was really, really poor, in my opinion. He should have demolished Rhino. Instead of getting someone fresh, we got someone who competed in a formula match where he did nothing to stand out. Plus, a ref bump! Argh.
Speaking of making people look like goofs, the Hernandez booking was absolutely ludicrous.

I liked the Suicide match though- t'was good, don't undestand why in the hell it was a Falls Count Anywhere match.
Haven't caught the Lethal Lockdown match- but having heard reports, i couldn't be bothered. It sounds really, really pointless.

EdK

Your post was a bit of waste of time you have all the "negatives" pointed out with little or no reason, you are dismissing something else because of hearsay and you say a match was a waste of time how so? What exactly were you looking for?, I have zero problem with feedback negative or positive as long as points are backed up

Also why shouldnt it be a falls count anywhere match?

As for Hernandez he is currently feuding with The World Elite, they cost him his title shot namely Eric Young to give the feud a basis to continue

michael.etc...

EdK wrote: »

Your post was a bit of waste of time you have all the "negatives" pointed out with little or no reason, you are dismissing something else because of hearsay and you say a match was a waste of time how so? What exactly were you looking for?, I have zero problem with feedback negative or positive as long as points are backed up

Also why shouldnt it be a falls count anywhere match?

As for Hernandez he is currently feuding with The World Elite, they cost him his title shot namely Eric Young to give the feud a basis to continue

What utter garbage. What gives you the right to say my, or anyone's elses opinion is "a waste of time"? I've noticed before that while it's possible to discuss the positives/negatives of TNA with others here, you adopt a real snattery tone to those who have negatives to say.

I'm not dismissing anything because of "hearsay". I said what I haven't seen doesn't appeal to me.

I know Hernandez is feuding with World Elite. But the manner in which he cashed in the title shot was really dumb, especially for a babyface on the rise. He picked a horrible time to do so. A four-way? What advantage does that give you? If they wanted to do have him try and cash it in, in a noble fashion, he could have interrupted a promo on Impact or something, and made his intent to wrestle for the belt clear, then had him taken out. He looked really stupid because of this. In theory yes, in practice, no.

Plus, I gave my reasons for not liking Lashley's debut. He should have squashed Rhino (a glorified jobber), and there's no way in hell they should have done a ref bump in a big-name debut match. Does that really need explaining?

Why should't it be a Falls Count Anywhere match? WHY SHOULD IT? That's the important thing... why tack on a gimmick for no reason?

What was i looking for? An impressive debut for Lashley, and a Main Event that wasn't formulaic. If you enjoyed those things fine. But i didn't.

I should mention that I kind of like the build-up to AJ/Sting- i think the outcome good be a really interesting match. At the same time, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, because I don't really agree with Sting stepping aside slant- but I completely understand the use of it in the overall story between the two.

EdK

michael.etc... wrote: »

What utter garbage. What gives you the right to say my, or anyone's elses opinion is "a waste of time"? I've noticed before that while it's possible to discuss the positives/negatives of TNA with others here, you adopt a real snattery tone to those who have negatives to say.

I'm not dismissing anything because of "hearsay". I said what I haven't seen doesn't appeal to me.

I know Hernandez is feuding with World Elite. But the manner in which he cashed in the title shot was really dumb, especially for a babyface on the rise. He picked a horrible time to do so. A four-way? What advantage does that give you? If they wanted to do have him try and cash it in, in a noble fashion, he could have interrupted a promo on Impact or something, and made his intent to wrestle for the belt clear, then had him taken out. He looked really stupid because of this. In theory yes, in practice, no.

Plus, I gave my reasons for not liking Lashley's debut. He should have squashed Rhino (a glorified jobber), and there's no way in hell they should have done a ref bump in a big-name debut match. Does that really need explaining?

Why should't it be a Falls Count Anywhere match? WHY SHOULD IT? That's the important thing... why tack on a gimmick for no reason?

What was i looking for? An impressive debut for Lashley, and a Main Event that wasn't formulaic. If you enjoyed those things fine. But i didn't.

Whoops me and my snattery tone again, Squashing Rhino achieves nothing because it doesnt make Lashley look any better like a reasonably competitive match would especially since they are trying to rebuild Rhino into something other than a "glorified jobber", Hernandez is being built as a huge powerhouse babyface so he is not going to take the easy heel way out by taking the title from a downed champion, Fair enough you didnt enjoy it but it was far from a waste of time

Also a wrestling show is written or booked to appeal to as many people as possible just because it doesnt appeal to a few people doesnt mean they have a problem or are doing anything wrong at all

Machismo Fan

michael.etc... wrote: »

Why should't it be a Falls Count Anywhere match? WHY SHOULD IT? That's the important thing... why tack on a gimmick for no reason?

I should mention that I kind of like the build-up to AJ/Sting- i think the outcome good be a really interesting match. At the same time, it's a bit of a double-edged sword, because I don't really agree with Sting stepping aside slant- but I completely understand the use of it in the overall story between the two.

In fairness, the Suicide/Dinero match was probably the only one worthy of a gimmick (though they could have probably done better stuff in a regular match) as Dinero cost Suicide a potential X-Division and World Title match, though unfortunately it was stuck on as an afterthought which made it seem unimportant.

I didn't really see it as Sting stepping aside but rather passing the torch in a way.

michael.etc...

EdK wrote: »

Whoops me and my snattery tone again, Squashing Rhino achieves nothing because it doesnt make Lashley look any better like a reasonably competitive match would especially since they are trying to rebuild Rhino into something other than a "glorified jobber", Hernandez is being built as a huge powerhouse babyface so he is not going to take the easy heel way out by taking the title from a downed champion, Fair enough you didnt enjoy it but it was far from a waste of time

I agree with you on Hernandez- i know what they're trying to do with him, and i can understand their reluctance to book the easy way out, heelish cash-in. That would be totally wrong- but for me, he looked like an honourable buffoon at the PPV- which could have been avoided if a similar angle occurred prior to a one-on-one encounter. I would have personally re-thought the whole situation and done something on television. Cashing a belt in a mult-person match is just bizarre.

Machismo Fan

EdK wrote: »

Also a wrestling show is written or booked to appeal to as many people as possible just because it doesnt appeal to a few people doesnt mean they have a problem or are doing anything wrong at all

Russo's booking tends to appeal to the minority of people who love car crash TV.

EdK

michael.etc... wrote: »

I agree with you on Hernandez- i know what they're trying to do with him, and i can understand their reluctance to book the easy way out, heelish cash-in. That would be totally wrong- but for me, he looked like an honourable buffoon at the PPV- which could have been avoided if a similar angle occurred prior to a one-on-one encounter. I would have personally re-thought the whole situation and done something on television. Cashing a belt in a mult-person match is just bizarre.

If i'm honest i didnt mean to imply that your post was a waste of time I just wanted to use your waste of time line which was a touch harsh

michael.etc...

Machismo Fan wrote: »

In fairness, the Suicide/Dinero match was probably the only one worthy of a gimmick (though they could have probably done better stuff in a regular match) as Dinero cost Suicide a potential X-Division and World Title match, though unfortunately it was stuck on as an afterthought which made it seem unimportant.

I didn't really see it as Sting stepping aside but rather passing the torch in a way.

I agree that a regular match would have been better between Suicide and Dinero. And i definitely think that could have led to something else down the road, it just wasn't the right time, or necessary at all for this PPV- their match would have been interesting enough.

I know what you're saying about Sting. I can the benefit of what they did, but also the negative side of it. It's a tough balance to get right without being completely illogical.

EdK

Machismo Fan wrote: »

Russo's booking tends to appeal to the minority of people who love car crash TV.

Not until this weeks tapings whoever had an input upto now had relatively sensible booking

michael.etc...

EdK wrote: »

Also a wrestling show is written or booked to appeal to as many people as possible just because it doesnt appeal to a few people doesnt mean they have a problem or are doing anything wrong at all

I agree with you- totally right, and that's how it should be. But i dont think TNA are booking shows like this,in ways that appeal to the majority, as evidenced by the stagnant buy-rates for their PPVs.

Machismo Fan

michael.etc... wrote: »

I know what you're saying about Sting. I can the benefit of what they did, but also the negative side of it. It's a tough balance to get right without being completely illogical.

I suppose we'll see how they explain it on iMPACT!.

EdK

michael.etc... wrote: »

I agree with you- totally right, and that's how it should be. But i dont think TNA are booking shows like this,in ways that appeal to the majority, as evidenced by the stagnant buy-rates for their PPVs.

TNA is unlucky to be pretty much the last one into the really oversatured American ppv market, In my opinion no matter what they do they'll still be behind boxing,UFC,WWE and so on, Last weekend they were up against Floyd Mayweather and UFC 103 no alot they can do then because it was about a *** 1/2 ppv

Machismo Fan

EdK wrote: »

TNA is unlucky to be pretty much the last one into the really oversatured American ppv market, In my opinion no matter what they do they'll still be behind boxing,UFC,WWE and so on, Last weekend they were up against Floyd Mayweather and UFC 103 no alot they can do then because it was about a *** 1/2 ppv

They will but they still should be doing a hell of a lot better than they are doing considering the star power and talent that they have.

michael.etc...

EdK wrote: »

TNA is unlucky to be pretty much the last one into the really oversatured American ppv market, In my opinion no matter what they do they'll still be behind boxing,UFC,WWE and so on, Last weekend they were up against Floyd Mayweather and UFC 103 no alot they can do then because it was about a *** 1/2 ppv

Oh yeah- it's a tough market all right. However, TNA's PPV have shown little growth, despite their TV having done so, to some degree. They'll always be behind those other guys, but to me, there's no reason that with an improved product, they can't snatch away some of those disenchanted WWE fans. Aside from Joe/Angle, they've failed to produce a "big match" event, that's succesfully captured the casual fan's imagination.

I'd like to point out that I'd LOVE for TNA to succeed- and the reason I'm so critical of them, is because they have massive potential hidden beneath some really poor direction.

EdK

Somehow even with all their various projects they are under exposed, You hear the like of Nash and Angle etc in interviews saying fans ask them all the time what they are doing now

EdK

Company wise though TNA have grown hugely in a pretty short length of time, They have profitable international tours they break even or make a profit now, they have a very solid tv deal, A good array of merchandise and outside ventures the only thing they are really lacking is decent ppv buys

Machismo Fan

From what I hear, TNA's general promotion and advertising tends to be terrible which is a big problem.

EdK

One of the things TNA has going for them is that their wrestlers seem to be more like real people if that makes any sense

JP Liz

Whats the deal with the Motor City Machineguns? When was the last time they wrestled a match

I'm delighted AJ Styles won the title.

I do think TNA has grown and its fanbase increased over the past few years. I think the addition of ex WWE stars namely Angle has been a great acquisition also.