Parents warned about giving teenagers alcohol at home

Orla K

INTRODUCING TEENAGERS to alcohol in the home in the hope that it might encourage responsible drinking is “very naive” and does not work, a leading child and adolescent psychiatrist has warned.
Dr Bobby Smyth said this myth was becoming increasingly popular, particularly among middle-class families.
“To think that we can magically inoculate our children against the very toxic, drunkenness tolerant society that we have in Ireland by giving them a glass of wine with Sunday dinner is very naive, and without any scientific basis,” Dr Smyth told an audience of parents last night.
“It is children who grow up in families with permissive attitudes and behaviours around alcohol who are much more likely to develop drink and drug problems.”
He said the drinking which parents saw at home was “likely to be a poor reflection of the drinking which occurs out of home” and it was hard to put the genie back in the bottle once alcohol was permitted. Dr Smyth was speaking in UCD at an information session for parents on preventing drug and alcohol problems.
It was organised by the Lucena Foundation in association with the Royal College of Psychiatrists Faculty and its 150 places were quickly booked out.
A second talk for parents has been organised for October 6th to cater for the demand.
Dr Smyth also warned parents against trying to be their children’s best friends.
Most children had lots of friends, he said, but they only had one or two parents. “They need you to be that person who loves them enough to tell them when they are heading down a dodgy path.”
He highlighted the signs that could alert parents to drug or alcohol use by their children. They included a mid-week crash in mood, a sudden enthusiasm for mints or chewing gum, deteriorating self-care and burn holes in clothes.
He said children were less likely to get involved in alcohol or drugs if they were motivated at school and were involved in sport, creative activities, community work and religious activities.
Family support was very important, he said, and parents should be actively involved in helping children to succeed in school. The whereabouts of teenagers should be monitored and there should be clear rules with consequences for breaking them. He encouraged parents to talk to their children about alcohol and drug use and to accept their children’s right to be irritated by their parents’ views.
Dr Smyth said parents were swimming against the tide in trying to steer their children away from alcohol. The most effective public health interventions to curtail alcohol-related harm were to increase taxes, reduce availability and restrict promotion, but none of these things were happening, Dr Smyth said.
In fact, the number of outlets selling alcohol had increased massively in the past decade and guidelines on alcohol adverts were “a nonsense,” he said.

How is this guy a leading child and adolescent psychiatrist?
He's stating the obvious and has a very narrow minded view of people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0910/1224254207144.html

voxpop

Load of rubbish - there are no hard and fast rules.

I would guess that virtually all kids start drinking due to peer pressure and to some level curiosity. You can curb curiosity by giving a taster, but its down to the personality of the kid and how they were raised when it comes to the peer pressure side of things.

hatrickpatrick

None of my friends started drinking because of "pressure", they did it because they had heard and seen that drinking is fun and makes people giddy and happy. That's the truth of it. It's not about trying to look cool, it's about 2 things really
1: They've heard that it's a great feeling
2: They want to stick it to authority.

The second one should be a lot more obvious. If you tell a teenager categorically not do so something, they're going to want to do it. If you couple that with what teens view as hypocrisy - we can drink but they can't - it's very obvious why they start drinking. A lot of the time, it's a form of rebellion.

The thing about it is, teenagers have always wanted drink, want it now, and will continue to want it. It's far too late now to turn that tide - the ship has well and truly sailed, the horse has already left the stable, and the execution has already been carried out. The only way we can ever hope to change the drinking problem for teens is to give them one simple piece of advice - and that is that, while drinking is indeed fun to begin with, once you hit your limit and go over it, it ceases to be enjoyable and becomes a horribly unpleasant experience. A lot of talk is given to teens about how it could lead to fights or damage their long term health, but have you ever met a teenager who wasn't cocky enough to fight or who actually cared enough about long term consequences not to do something "fun" now?

But the advice I was given about drink was quite simple: If you drink up to your limit, you could well enjoy it. It's not guaranteed of course - if you're depressed and you drink to cheer yourself up you'll actually make it worse.
BUT - if you drink past your limit, you will pass out, you might vomit, you'll have trouble talking to people and moving around, and you'll wake up the next morning with the worst headache of your life and no memory of what may have been a great night.
Those are very immediate, short term consequences and these are the ones which at 15 hit home to me. As naive as this seems now, to a teen the idea of cancer and blood pressure and all the rest is "for grown ups" - they just don't think that far into the future. But I certainly thought about how much I hate throwing up, I hate being confused, and I absolutely love the memory of a great night out rather than the empty, blank haze you get if you drank through it.

Those are the warnings which worked for me and I'd like to say I just don't tend to drink all that much. I have 3 or 4 beers a night (whenever I'm actually drinking which is usually about once a week or once a fortnight even), but rarely do I drink more. I got completely locked one night just to try it, everyone was telling me how much fun it was - sure enough, I remembered absolutely nothing the next day. And I've never wanted to do it since then.

That's just my opinion anyway. To adults, long term consequences are the most serious. to teens, they're the least serious. We need to focus more on explaining just how awful it feels to be too drunk, because that's what they WILL listen to.

minidazzler

voxpop wrote: »

Load of rubbish - there are no hard and fast rules.

I would guess that virtually all kids start drinking due to peer pressure and to some level curiosity. You can curb curiosity by giving a taster, but its down to the personality of the kid and how they were raised when it comes to the peer pressure side of things.

Nope, I was 17 and 3 months in Paris on a balcony and I decided it was the right time for me. No peer pressure involved at all.

cherryghost

minidazzler wrote: »

Nope, I was 17 and 3 months in Paris on a balcony and I decided it was the right time for me. No peer pressure involved at all.

he said virtually for a reason :pac:

JW91

minidazzler wrote: »

Nope, I was 17 and 3 months in Paris on a balcony and I decided it was the right time for me. No peer pressure involved at all.

In fairness if you look at hatrickpatrick's post you can see there's a vital word inserted between "that" and "all". That word is "virtually". Not "Every"

brummytom

I started out of curiousity, I think that's the same for most people. Even those who drink out of peer pressure must be curious in some way about drink.

Never been completely sloshed, but God do I feel smug when everyone else is.
I don't really think there's a problem giving kid's drink at home (it's only just started happening for me); If anything, it will diminish the curiousity.

MagicMarker

My parents started giving me shandys at around 9 years old to keep me quiet in the pub.

AnonoBoy

And where's the report saying how harmful it is for parents to let teenagers watch Martin Lawrence movies in the home?

ShooterSF

So Dr. Smyth prefers the old taboo approach to alcohol until your kid turns 18 and then let them at it?

ScumLord

Orla K wrote: »

How is this guy a leading child and adolescent psychiatrist?
He's stating the obvious and has a very narrow minded view of people.

That's how you become a leading anything in this country.

The day I became a pioneer I found a can of heineken right beside the priests house, I figured God was sending me a message and haven't stopped drinking since.

NTRODUCING TEENAGERS to alcohol in the home in the hope that it might encourage responsible drinking is “very naive” and does not work, a leading child and adolescent psychiatrist has warned.

Works well in the continent doesn't it ?? The whole "forbidden fruit" thing going on in this country and the USA seems to be driving them to the drink. My mother had no problem with me trying small drinks at home and as a result I'm not particularly fascinated with it and rarely drink.

Honestly - what do you think will have more effect on a child - "I'm having this wonderful stuff oooh it's so wonderful *waves around* but YOU can't have any!!" vs "yeah ok have a sip" - child realises it tastes horrible and isn't particularly interesting, the end.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I've been drinking at homw since i was 12/13 and I don't get drunk have as much as the lads that weren't allowed drink at home do, dunno if that had any effect on it.

walshb

It is all down to the obsession and mentality here in Ireland that you cannot be Irish or enjoy yourself without alcohol and it is so bizarre and stupid. I mean, all my mates were
all flustered and excited and chat chat chat about how when they turned 18, the old man was marching them down to the pub for the legal drink?:rolleyes: Like it was the best thing ever and you just had to do it. Relax, chill and stop...I never understood all the damn fuss and excitement from this mentality, form the teenagers and the bloody adults....

yoyo

I only started drinking when I was 18 (only had the odd bottle of beer or so before that rarely!). I am now a heavy enough drinker, drink most nights a week, so yeah, I do think this you can only drink when your 18 thing is rubbish, probably introducing drink to people while their younger in smaller doses would be beneficial, as they may stick to the trend of that later on, waiting until I was 18 to drink certainly brought no benefits to me anyways..

Nick

TheCardHolder

I began drinking more frequently due to boredom, not much to do for teens where I lived.

walshb

yoyo wrote: »

I only started drinking when I was 18 (only had the odd bottle of beer or so before that rarely!). I am now a heavy enough drinker, drink most nights a week, so yeah, I do think this you can only drink when your 18 thing is rubbish, probably introducing drink to people while their younger in smaller doses would be beneficial, as they may stick to the trend of that later on, waiting until I was 18 to drink certainly brought no benefits to me anyways..

Nick

Nick, would you say you are an alcoholic?

Black Dog

An aside, perhaps, and a small insight into the views on alcohol in another culture. We were on holidays in Italy with our 12 year old son. The waiter asked if he was having wine with his dinner. He was and was served without as much as a flicker of an eyelash.

However, when he asked for coffee after dinner there was pandemonium. We were asked if he was to have coffee and said that he was. The waiter actually called two other waiters to show them the child who was going to be allowed to drink coffee after his dinner and the terrible parents who were going to allow this.

To top it all he was served a small taste of grappa after his coffee.

And, yes, we are one of those middle-class families referred to above who always gave our children drink when such was being had - not a frequent occurrence, wine with dinner at weekends kind of thing.

walshb

I suppose wine is better than good old ribena or coke or fanta isn't it?

jumpguy

voxpop wrote: »

Load of rubbish - there are no hard and fast rules.

I would guess that virtually all kids start drinking due to peer pressure and to some level curiosity. You can curb curiosity by giving a taster, but its down to the personality of the kid and how they were raised when it comes to the peer pressure side of things.

Pretty much said it all. I know some teens who get drink at home...they still binge drink. I know some who are strictly forbidden from drinking it...and still binge drink.

ScumLord

Black Dog wrote: »

An aside, perhaps, and a small insight into the views on alcohol in another culture. We were on holidays in Italy with our 12 year old son. The waiter asked if he was having wine with his dinner. He was and was served without as much as a flicker of an eyelash.

However, when he asked for coffee after dinner there was pandemonium. We were asked if he was to have coffee and said that he was. The waiter actually called two other waiters to show them the child who was going to be allowed to drink coffee after his dinner and the terrible parents who were going to allow this.

To top it all he was served a small taste of grappa after his coffee.

And, yes, we are one of those middle-class families referred to above who always gave our children drink when such was being had - not a frequent occurrence, wine with dinner at weekends kind of thing.

Italian coffee is full of cocaine you know! :pac:

marko91

my ma used to feed my budweiser in my bottle as a baby

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv.htm

# An average American child will see 200,000 violent acts and 16,000 murders on TV by age 18
# Two-thirds of all programming contains violence [16].
# Programs designed for children more often contain violence than adult TV [17].
# Most violent acts go unpunished on TV and are often accompanied by humor. The consequences of human suffering and loss are rarely depicted.
# Many shows glamorize violence. TV often promotes violent acts as a fun and effective way to get what you want, without consequences [18].
# Even in G-rated, animated movies and DVDs, violence is common—often as a way for the good characters to solve their problems. Every single U.S. animated feature film produced between 1937 and 1999 contained violence, and the amount of violence with intent to injure has increased over the years [19].
# Even "good guys" beating up "bad guys" gives a message that violence is normal and okay. Many children will try to be like their "good guy" heroes in their play.
# Children imitate the violence they see on TV. Children under age eight cannot tell the difference between reality and fantasy, making them more vulnerable to learning from and adopting as reality the violence they see on TV .
# Repeated exposure to TV violence makes children less sensitive toward its effects on victims and the human suffering it causes. Viewing TV violence reduces inhibitions and leads to more aggressive behavior.
# Watching television violence can have long-term effects:
* A 15-year-long study by University of Michigan researchers found that the link between childhood TV-violence viewing and aggressive and violent behavior persists into adulthood [21].
* A 17-year-long study found that teenaged boys who grew up watching more TV each day are more likely to commit acts of violence than those who watched less

donmeister

Ahh FFS, let em' drink!

Naikon

The best deterrent is seeing the affect it has on
people by working in a pub or similar.

Not that people really give two hoots at that
age bracket though.

Naikon

Orla K wrote: »

How is this guy a leading child and adolescent psychiatrist?
He's stating the obvious and has a very narrow minded view of people.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0910/1224254207144.html

Just because the guy has the title of 'Dr' does not mean
his claims should be taken as gospel.

I am a doctor of fried foods. My title says so.
Buy my book. Where is my cash?

I never drank until well in to my 30ths, came from a non drinking family and i was married to a non drinker...im very uneasy with teenage drinking...but im realistic about it...Ireland has deeply embedded drinking culture ( like a lot of northern european countries )....

public education programs makes little or no difference and are aren't realy going to change a countries culture..

there's a strong inherited element in alcoholism...which make it very difficult to treat

Rob_l

cherryghost wrote: »

he said virtually for a reason :pac:

JW91 wrote: »

In fairness if you look at hatrickpatrick's post you can see there's a vital word inserted between "that" and "all". That word is "virtually". Not "Every"

Well if its virtually that all these kids are starting drinking then i reckon this place could be part of the problem

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=908

Also Starring LeVar Burton

How about people stop looking at drinking as a problem and embrace it and instead of people giving seminars on stupid issues, more people start working on ways to inject more money into the country...

ejmaztec

CaptainNegative wrote: »

How about people stop looking at drinking as a problem and embrace it and instead of people giving seminars on stupid issues, more people start working on ways to inject more money into the country...

I'd drink to that if I weren't teetotal.

SeaFields

I heard this doctor on the radio yesterday. I have a problem with his findings and here's why.

He said that his study looked at problem drinkers and tried to identify what influences on them may have led to their problems with alcohol. A certain amount of these research subjects identified that they were first introduced to alcohol while at home. Therefore by false logic one has to assume that introducing kids to alcohol at home brings about the potential for a dependency. Plenty of research in the past has shown that one usually can have a higher risk of alcohol dependency if there is dependency already in the family.

However, like so much research into social issues in this country, they looked at the problem rather than the solution. Had this guy taken a group of people who's drinking could be considered non-problematic and social, then his findings may have very well been completely reversed i.e. that introducing kids to alcohol in a responsible manner brings about non-problematic, social attitude towards drinking.

Research into social issues in this country forever looks at the problems and their origins rather than looking at what's "normal".

ejmaztec

As some female Irish Times reporter suggested on the TV3 Vincent Browne programme, the alcohol issue gets ignored or covered up, where priests, politicians etc are concerned.

It reminded me of an assistant parish priest a few miles from here, who used to visit the local national school from time to time. Everybody knew that this guy was a chronic alcoholic, but when he was off being dried out in a clinic in another town, the kids in the school were told by the parish priest that he was on missionary work in Africa.