A plea for wrestling knowledge

orestes

Just watched the Dragongate ppv. Holy sweet fukking hell jebus monkeyballs! I'ts like I'd forgotten what wrestling really is and have just been reminded! That is without a doubt the best wrestling show I have seen in a long, long time. I would write a review or something, but I honestly don't even know where to begin. Every single match was fantastic and engaging as hell, and the tag-match was nothing less than completely fukking awesome. Fukk sports entertainment, it's frigging good to feel like I've just watched a WRESTLING show for the first time in years.

I have only seen a tiny bit of TNA and no ROH or DG so my only exposure to wrestling has been through WWE which doesn't even count as a wrestling show anymore. I only watched out of habit cos it's something I have always done. But those two hours have reminded me of why I started to watch in the first place.

Ok, I am making a personal plea to every user on this forum: gimme! Events, promotions, wrestlers, the works - give me info! Where should I be looking and what should I be looking at? Flah and EDK, I'm looking at you two in particular, you guys seem to know what you're talking about on this stuff.

EdK

Told ya it was awesome, start maybe at the Dragongate challenges, they were shows ROH did where their wrestlers would go up against the top Dragongate wrestlers the last one was from Orlando in 2008 as they have stopped their business relationship

One match I recommend everyone sees is Davey Richards vs Kenta from ROH in Houston 2009

Wrestlers I'd recommend to search out include Roderick Strong,Nigel Mc Guinness, Takeshi Morishima, Kenta, Naruki Doi, Masato Yoshino,Shingo,Bryan Danielson, Cima is underrated I think, Austin Aries, Matt Sydal before WWE and that's all I can think of right now

EdK

Oh if you haven't seen much TNA you could watch matches featuring Samoa Joe, Aj Styles and Christopher Daniels either before TNA with ROH and PWG etc or in TNA, TNA have alot of their matches on YouTube

Here's a classic for you may post link later

Styles vs Joe Vs Daniels at TNA Unbreakable 2005

orestes

Cheers for the info dude, much appreciated

What is the connection between ROH and Dragonsgate exactly? And there was some other promotion mentioned after the 4-man tag match when an inter-promotion challenge was issued, what was the other promotion or was it just a faction or something?

flahavaj

Lads, I'm so so pleased to se this buzz around the Dragongate PPV. I've been going on about it and other more obscure wrestling companis for the past two years but kinda got fed up posting about it as save for a handful of lads, no one seemed to give two f*cks! Orestes bai, I'll post a few recommendations for you when I get a bit of time to compose a good long post for you.

Could I suggest you try the Puroresu (Japanese wrestling thread) first of all? I posted some matches in that on a weekly basis there for a while. I specifically chose the matches so that they'd be accessible to people starting off watching for the first time etc., in the hope that I'd get them hooked.

Here she is:http://www.usenet.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055625687

I'd be absolutely delighted to get that thread up and running again if i thought there was interest from a few more posters as it eventualy turned into a place where a couple of us Puro marks ended up chatting (and while thats great, i originally wanted to help people get into non-mainstream wrestling).

flahavaj

T answer your questions orestes, ROH was the first company in America to import wrestlers from DragonGate on a regular basis. I fact they started an annual tradition of bringing them over to appear on their shows on Wrestlemania weekend starting in 2005. That year the Dragon Gate guys had a 6 man tag match that was given 5 stars by Dave Meltzerand generally blew people's minds as to how wrestling should be performed. If you've never seen Dragon gate before, that match, combined with the insane reactions of the crowd will leave you literally, speechless. After that Dragon gate became semi regular visitors to the company. In 2008 however the relationship soured between the companies and they stopped appearing for ROH. When the ROH head booker Gabe Sapolsky stepped down a few months ago, the next job he took on was booking the USA shows for Dragon Gate in order to help make them more accessible to a US audience.

The second promotion referred to o the PPV is Chikara Pro Wrestling. They're a small but rapidly growing promotion owned and run by Mike Quackenbush 9hes one of the las who was in the 8 man tag, looks like a schoolteacher, but is a fantastic wrestler). All the wrestlers in that 8 man match are Chikara wrestlers. Chikara is loosely based around the lucha libre style of wrestling, but they don't take themselve seriously whatsoever. Its a promotion where workrate and great matches are secondary to providing good family entertainment. They have some whacky gimmicks like the Colony, a faction of guys dressed like ants and a faction of Peruvian goats dressed in soccer jersies (I kid you not). As I said its all to be taken with a pinch of salt and personally I think they're a great promotion and admirable in so many ways. They seems to have struck a deal with Dragongate where they'll be appearing regularly on the shows so expect some interpromotional storylines as we progress.

Dragongate USA website:www.dgusa.tv

Ckikara pro wrestling website: (worth a browse if only to read some of the hilarious gimmicks) www.chikarapro.com

EdK

Styles Vs Joe Vs Daniels Unbreakable 2005

Turning Point 2005: AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe

Turning Point 2006: Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle (this is the second match but still good but not as good as the first which I can't find just now)

Reason why i'm posting TNA matches is TNA make them available legally for free

chopperbyrne

Anything I've seen of Dragongate has been so lacking in decent psychology that it put me off them for life.

Has the psychology improved or is it still "I know how to do 1768 moves, so I better use them all in every match I have regardless if it makes sense to use them or not." wrestling?

EdK

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Anything I've seen of Dragongate has been so lacking in decent psychology that it put me off them for life.

Has the psychology improved or is it still "I know how to do 1768 moves, so I better use them all in every match I have regardless if it makes sense to use them or not." wrestling?

Thats the fun of it

Snakeblood

orestes wrote: »

Just watched the Dragongate ppv. Holy sweet fukking hell jebus monkeyballs! I'ts like I'd forgotten what wrestling really is and have just been reminded! That is without a doubt the best wrestling show I have seen in a long, long time. I would write a review or something, but I honestly don't even know where to begin. Every single match was fantastic and engaging as hell, and the tag-match was nothing less than completely fukking awesome. Fukk sports entertainment, it's frigging good to feel like I've just watched a WRESTLING show for the first time in years.

I have only seen a tiny bit of TNA and no ROH or DG so my only exposure to wrestling has been through WWE which doesn't even count as a wrestling show anymore. I only watched out of habit cos it's something I have always done. But those two hours have reminded me of why I started to watch in the first place.

Ok, I am making a personal plea to every user on this forum: gimme! Events, promotions, wrestlers, the works - give me info! Where should I be looking and what should I be looking at? Flah and EDK, I'm looking at you two in particular, you guys seem to know what you're talking about on this stuff.

Pretty much anything from 2006 to 2008 in ROH was great. Manhattan Mayhem 2 is a fantastic show top to bottom, but most of ROH's shows are just superlative in that time period. Any show involving Takeshi Morishima panelling Bryan Danielson is just the best thing, if only for that. I'd buy their series again, if I hadn't bought them already.

rossie1977

joe/styles/daniels match is over-rated for me

if you like dragongate, watch the master at work, ultimo dragon (he trained the guys in dragongate), he had some fantastic matches in wcw circa 1996-97 (mysterio, malenko, jericho) and of course his NJPW matches with Great Sasuke and justin liger

rossie1977

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Anything I've seen of Dragongate has been so lacking in decent psychology that it put me off them for life.

Has the psychology improved or is it still "I know how to do 1768 moves, so I better use them all in every match I have regardless if it makes sense to use them or not." wrestling?

i think this is a big problem alrite with that stuff, if you just want to watch dragongate or guys like MCMG for spots then thats fine, but psychology wise look elsewhere, personally if I want to watch junior heavyweights go at it, stuff like super J cup especially 94 and 95 had guys with great moves, spots and great psychology, you had jericho, benoit, eddie, malenko, Liger, Sasuke all in their primes

EdK

rossie1977 wrote: »

i think this is a big problem alrite with that stuff, if you just want to watch dragongate or guys like MCMG for spots then thats fine, but psychology wise look elsewhere

Thats just it, watching different promotions gives you everything you need

EdK

rossie1977 wrote: »

joe/styles/daniels match is over-rated for me

if you like dragongate, watch the master at work, ultimo dragon (he trained the guys in dragongate), he had some fantastic matches in wcw circa 1996-97 (mysterio, malenko, jericho) and of course his NJPW matches with Great Sasuke and justin liger

Each to their own but I love that match

flahavaj

Saying Dragongate is lacking in psychology is a slightly sweeping generalisation. Certainly, the multiple man matches are move after move after move, but on the other hand, I don't think anyone who watches DragonGate regularly is under any illusions as to this fact. If you're watching DG regularly its to get a fix of fast paced, perfectly hit spots that blend seamlessly together. As I said in the other thread last night I have no bother with spotfests if they're well executed and constantly innovative and DG certainly delivers on that front.

To be fair to DG, they do mix it up on their shows. Their big title and single matches would usually be slower paced and they build to the big spots in the more traditional sense that most would be used to. The Doi/SHINGO match from the PPv would be a god example of that.

End of the day theres wrestling out there for all tastes: if you want the best high flying in the world, watch dragon gate, if you want psychology and well built matches dig out the old NWA tapes and watch some one hour draws. Each to there own.

flahavaj

Also @ rossie, agreed on the new Japan Juniors and Ultimo Dragon. My favourite match of his is against El Samurai in the J Cup fro 96 it was I think, they hit a ridiculously dangerous reverse rana spot from the top that has to be seen to be believed.

On MCMG though, they have far more in their arsenal than just highspots though to be fair, certainly Sheley is well capable of injecting psychology ad build into his matches. theres nothimg those two lads can't do, they just haven't been given an adequate platform from which to do it. In fact, hes one of the few on the indies the last few years who is adept at doing so.

Machismo Fan

Must see's from TNA: Triple X vs. AMW Six Sides of Steel Cage match from Turning Point '04:

AJ Styles vs. Chris Sabin vs. Petey Williams Ultimate X from Final Resolution 2005:

AJ Styles vs. Abyss at Lockdown 2005:

Samoa Joe vs. Chris Sabin from No Surrender 2005:

Lockdown 2006: Lethal Lockdown:

Lockdown 2008: Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe:

Genesis 2005: Elimination X:

If that's not enough of how awesome TNA was and at times can still be, just ask and there's plenty more where that came from.

davrho

If anyone can embed these please do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiRal2nkC3M&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E24forums%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D14255&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1EPGERWioQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E24forums%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D14255&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL38rnZSjlk&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2E24forums%2Ecom%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D14255&feature=player_embedded


There are loads of matches on this site. I will post a few more tomorow when i have the time

Machismo Fan

flahavaj wrote: »

On MCMG though, they have far more in their arsenal than just highspots though to be fair, certainly Sheley is well capable of injecting psychology ad build into his matches.

I love Sabin. He very rarely, if ever, has a bad match. Anybody see his match with AJ on this weeks iMPACT!? It may have only been five minutes but damn was that a good five minutes.

Machismo Fan

davrho wrote: »

If someone is going to tell a bare faced lie it dont mean they are right. I could wear a wig and pretend not to be bald argue like feck about it but bottom line i am a baldy.:)

No but it does if these people pretty much run a company. I got bored so here's some more TNA awesomeness (even some with TNA in a four sided ring!!!:eek:):

Nashville 2003: AJ Styles vs. Amazing Red:

June 19, 2002: TNA's First-Ever Match with AJ Styles, Jerry Lynn and Low-Ki vs. The Flying Elvises:

Ironman: AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels from Against All Odds 2005:

June 26th 2002: The First TNA X Title Match with AJ Styles vs. Low-Ki vs. Jerry Lynn vs. Psicosis

kyp_durron

I liked Special K matches. Lots of spots, it gets me excited

MuscleShark

During the X division era before 2007 when i watch TNA its matches i knew that theres still hopes that pro wrestling could come big once again. I always enjoys watching Aj styles against Cris Daniels against joe whatever and whoever matches they compete in. During that time i knew that TNA will be the future of pro wrestling. After the signing of many former WWE stars its destroys the mentality of the X division and mentality of pushing the young stars. Everyone knows that Russo got to go the storyline between Main Evnt Mafia makes no sense. In my opinion MEM(Angle,Booker,Steiner and Nash) should compete against TNA originals(Styles,Daniels,Joe and somepoint sting ask for forgiveness from them because he tought they disrepect the legends and later sting agreed and help the the originals destroys the Main event mafia. In real story who is fighting MEM? Why Joe turn against TNA originals? Why is bobby lashley is the only one who TNA pushing to stop MEM?. It should be the originals not one man show lashley. TNA need to fire Russo stop all the bullsh*t and let the young stars compete and grows just like they did with AJ styles, Samoa Joe, Cristopher Daniels, LAX, Machineguns so on.

michael.etc...

orestes wrote: »

Ok, I am making a personal plea to every user on this forum: gimme! Events, promotions, wrestlers, the works - give me info! Where should I be looking and what should I be looking at? Flah and EDK, I'm looking at you two in particular, you guys seem to know what you're talking about on this stuff.

okay dude, I'm not gonna advise you on TNA or DG, because there's other people can do and have done, far more successfully. However, I do know a thing or two about ROH. I'm crazy busy right now,so i can't write anything up, but If there's anything specific that you want to know, just shoot. Here's a couple articles that might get you interested.

I also did a ****ing massive column listing my fav 50 matches of 2007 which isn't online anymore it's too huge to post i think, but i could send you it if you want.

http://www.ifight365.com/2008/12/throwing-in-the-towel-an-roh-christmas-list/

http://www.ifight365.com/2009/03/throwing-in-the-towel-5-reasons-for-wwe-to-sign-bryan-danielson/

http://www.ifight365.com/2008/10/throwing-in-the-towel-is-this-the-end-of-the-era-of-honor/

In the meantime dude, just check the youtube channel!

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ROHBrazil&view=playlists

flahavaj

michael.etc... wrote: »

okay dude, I'm not gonna advise you on TNA or DG, because there's other people can do and have done, far more successfully. However, I do know a thing or two about ROH. I'm crazy busy right now,so i can't write anything up, but If there's anything specific that you want to know, just shoot. Here's a couple articles that might get you interested.

I also did a ****ing massive column listing my fav 50 matches of 2007 which isn't online anymore it's too huge to post i think, but i could send you it if you want.

http://www.ifight365.com/2008/12/throwing-in-the-towel-an-roh-christmas-list/

http://www.ifight365.com/2009/03/throwing-in-the-towel-5-reasons-for-wwe-to-sign-bryan-danielson/

http://www.ifight365.com/2008/10/throwing-in-the-towel-is-this-the-end-of-the-era-of-honor/

In the meantime dude, just check the youtube channel!

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ROHBrazil&view=playlists

Cheers for the link to that ROH channel michael. Hero.

Also the articles are great as always.

michael.etc...

flahavaj wrote: »

Cheers for the link to that ROH channel michael. Hero.
Also the articles are great as always.

No probs. It's really high quality, and an easy for way anyone who hasn't seen ROH to be able to follow it. There's no excuse for not being able to catch it right there.

Cheers. There'll be an ROH piece in FSM next month too!

Question for Machismo Fan: If there was one feud that had it all (heat, good storyline, sensible development, seriously awesome matches, logical outcome) in TNA, that you would recommend to newcomers to watch from start to finish, what would it be?

gimmick

I would ask anyone who is looking for new promotions they may not have heard of to take a look at Pro Wrestling Guerrilla - PWG. It is a seriously under rtaed, but very exciting little promotion indeed with some decent comedy spliced in as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK2n5T6_wIY

For decent shows i would suggest pick up any Battle Of Los Angeles, or the 2009 5 year anniversary show - Life During Wartime.

Drawbacks are awful commentating, which can be turned off in the settings that god, and some truly awful workers like Quicksilver and Ronin.

Check it out.