2010 Festivals - Your thoughts please

JP Poker

Just back from holidays and looking at some of the festivals already in the pipeline for 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671054 plus Pokerstars IPT on top of what is already out there. I really think we have gone past saturation point.

Add the economic downturn and I foresee many of next year events struggle to get numbers.

I was thinking about running one more event myself on top of my JP Poker Masters and Mini WSOP which starts this November but not sure to be honest.

I was thinking about running either the Irish Shoot-Out Championship or the Irish SnG Championship.

Buy in for these events would be in the €250 - €550 region. 2/3 day events with side events.

What are you thoughts?

KevIRL

JP Poker wrote: »

Just back from holidays and looking at some of the festivals already in the pipeline for 2010 plus Pokerstars IPT on top of what is already out there. I really think we have gone past saturation point.

Add the economic downturn and I foresee many of next year events struggle to get numbers.


What are you thoughts?

Interesting discussion here I feel. I moved the thread from the tourney section so it doesnt get lost in there.

Ollieboy

JP Poker wrote: »

Just back from holidays and looking at some of the festivals already in the pipeline for 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671054 plus Pokerstars IPT on top of what is already out there. I really think we have gone past saturation point.

Add the economic downturn and I foresee many of next year events struggle to get numbers.

I was thinking about running one more event myself on top of my JP Poker Masters and Mini WSOP which starts this November but not sure to be honest.

I was thinking about running either the Irish Shoot-Out Championship or the Irish SnG Championship.

Buy in for these events would be in the €250 - €550 region. 2/3 day events with side events.

What are you thoughts?

100% agree with JP, there will be a problem next year with numbers and a lot of events will be water down or cancel at late notice which will be really bad for Irish Poker. I would be interest to see a lists of all the events for next year if someone had it. But here's my points on the current Irish Poker Live scene:

1. Too many events and to many event org, so titles will carry very little worth besides the like of a IPT or IO etc. Also the money will be getting smaller so the value in buy-in will not be worth the risks.

2. Very little value in Irish poker at the moment. Everytime I go to a event of 100 runners, i can pick out about 50 players that can win it because there good enough and have done it already. example was the Bruce game in Maynooth last year, it had 150 odd runners and I count about 60 top irish players in the room and 20 pro's at least at a 120 game....? madness.

3. Rake at cash games is killing festivals in general.

4. Work commitments. A lot of good players would love to play a lot of events, but 3 day events mean someone as to take a day of work and miss out on holidays etc just wont work.

I'm sure I could add a few more points to this, but I'm just working off the top of my head at the moment. Its quite simple for me at the moment, unless I get into a event cheap by sat I'm not bothering unless its near my home. Also the other thing that will attract me is the guarantee's and size of field, bigger been better of course.

As for JP's question I would concentrate on the bigger events you already have and make them bigger each year going forward. Also make sure you have a good feeder system into your main event from your pub games etc. Keep working at you pub games as this will be the only growth area going forward. Finally anything outside the normal type of tourneys will struggle more as they will be aim at a smaller market etc.

5starpool

It's like the housing boom I reckon. There is an oversupply, and at some point a lot of the suppliers will not be able to continue in business, but those that are left behind will eventually benefit I guess.

JP Poker

Ollieboy wrote: »

100% agree with JP, there will be a problem next year with numbers and a lot of events will be water down or cancel at late notice which will be really bad for Irish Poker. I would be interest to see a lists of all the events for next year if someone had it. But here's my points on the current Irish Poker Live scene:

1. Too many events and to many event org, so titles will carry very little worth besides the like of a IPT or IO etc. Also the money will be getting smaller so the value in buy-in will not be worth the risks.

2. Very little value in Irish poker at the moment. Everytime I go to a event of 100 runners, i can pick out about 50 players that can win it because there good enough and have done it already. example was the Bruce game in Maynooth last year, it had 150 odd runners and I count about 60 top irish players in the room and 20 pro's at least at a 120 game....? madness.

3. Rake at cash games is killing festivals in general.

4. Work commitments. A lot of good players would love to play a lot of events, but 3 day events mean someone as to take a day of work and miss out on holidays etc just wont work.

I'm sure I could add a few more points to this, but I'm just working off the top of my head at the moment. Its quite simple for me at the moment, unless I get into a event cheap by sat I'm not bothering unless its near my home. Also the other thing that will attract me is the guarantee's and size of field, bigger been better of course.

As for JP's question I would concentrate on the bigger events you already have and make them bigger each year going forward. Also make sure you have a good feeder system into your main event from your pub games etc. Keep working at you pub games as this will be the only growth area going forward. Finally anything outside the normal type of tourneys will struggle more as they will be aim at a smaller market etc.

Hi Ollie,

Thanks for your input, just one other question, I meant to put this into my OP.

Regarding tournament buy-ins, I decided to make my upcoming Mini WSOP main event a €350 for three reasons. Firstly this is more within reach of my regular players, second due to the high volume of games in October and November i felt that a lower buy-in would work for this period of the year. Finally obviously easier for me to due tickets at my pubs games.

So my question is should I be thinking about lowering the buy-in of my JP Poker Masters from €750 to €650 or €550 for next year? Or is it the right price to attract players from aboard?

Thanks Again

Jp

5starpool

As regards the Masters JP, despite having not played it myself, from what I have heard it is one that people will endeavour to gvie return business to. I believe that with the proliferation of tournaments, people will choose to play those with the operators they know and trust where they have to choose between events. I think your 750 buyin is still a good compromise between the big buyin and the affordability one for people to qualify for, as long as you are still confident of qualifying a similar amount of locals from your normal games at that price.

JP Poker

5starpool wrote: »

As regards the Masters JP, despite having not played it myself, from what I have heard it is one that people will endeavour to gvie return business to. I believe that with the proliferation of tournaments, people will choose to play those with the operators they know and trust where they have to choose between events. I think your 750 buyin is still a good compromise between the big buyin and the affordability one for people to qualify for, as long as you are still confident of qualifying a similar amount of locals from your normal games at that price.

Hi Dom,

In 2008 we had a total of 180 of which 51 (I believe) were my regular players.

In 2009 we had a total of 221 of which 56 were my regular players.

Similar number of players but lower % of total players.

ITT-Pat

JP Poker wrote: »

Just back from holidays and looking at some of the festivals already in the pipeline for 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671054 plus Pokerstars IPT on top of what is already out there. I really think we have gone past saturation point.

Add the economic downturn and I foresee many of next year events struggle to get numbers.

I was thinking about running one more event myself on top of my JP Poker Masters and Mini WSOP which starts this November but not sure to be honest.

I was thinking about running either the Irish Shoot-Out Championship or the Irish SnG Championship.

Buy in for these events would be in the €250 - €550 region. 2/3 day events with side events.

What are you thoughts?

Yeah I completely agree with this, I think there are far too many tournaments on next year.

Jesus Wept

5starpool wrote: »

It's like the housing boom I reckon. There is an oversupply, and at some point a lot of the suppliers will not be able to continue in business, but those that are left behind will eventually benefit I guess.

Let's hope it's the right ones.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

I would just build on what you have JP and I think the €750 buy in for the Masters is pitched perfectly to suit most pockets. There has to be some consolidation or event organisers dropping off as you can only cut the pie so many times.

Ollieboy

JP Poker wrote: »

Hi Ollie,

Thanks for your input, just one other question, I meant to put this into my OP.

Regarding tournament buy-ins, I decided to make my upcoming Mini WSOP main event a €350 for there reasons. Firstly this is more within reach of my regular players, second due to the high volume of games in October and November i felt that a lower buy-in would work for this period of the year. Finally obviously easier for me to due tickets at my pubs games.

So my question is should I be thinking about lowering the buy-in of my JP Poker Masters from €750 to €650 or €550 for next year? Or is it the right price to attract players from aboard?

Thanks Again

Jp

The local market is different to the international market. If you want to attract foreign players than 1k is the buy-in level as its not worth there while to travel for small buy-in events unless the field is very big like the IPO, Ladbrokes etc. For the local market a 500 buy-in is the max outside all the big events going on.

But as Dom mention, your Master tourney was held in very high regard, so its important that you retain these players. This event could be add to the lists of must be played tourneys. So it might be able to hold its buy-in level. I felt 750 was on the high side as I would rather 500 and bigger fields.

Maybe the industry along with the ranking sites could devise a lists of Irish major and these events should carry weighting in ranking etc and if sponsor should include some sort of deal to sponsor the player into the following years major. It would give all these events a add importance etc.

nicnicnic

JP Poker wrote: »

Hi Ollie,

Thanks for your input, just one other question, I meant to put this into my OP.

Regarding tournament buy-ins, I decided to make my upcoming Mini WSOP main event a €350 for three reasons. Firstly this is more within reach of my regular players, second due to the high volume of games in October and November i felt that a lower buy-in would work for this period of the year. Finally obviously easier for me to due tickets at my pubs games.

So my question is should I be thinking about lowering the buy-in of my JP Poker Masters from €750 to €650 or €550 for next year? Or is it the right price to attract players from aboard?

Thanks Again

Jp

I wouldn't reduce the buy in JP. I think that the Masters differentiates itself from other tournaments through its Buyin, class structure and demographic of field. I think you've found a great balance with the Masters. Personally if I could only play five major events next year, the Masters would be on my list.

big_iain

Ollieboy wrote: »

Maybe the industry along with the ranking sites could devise a lists of Irish major and these events should carry weighting in ranking etc and if sponsor should include some sort of deal to sponsor the player into the following years major. It would give all these events a add importance etc.

IPR is already working on a list for next year and we hope to have it complete by the end of the month. http://www.irishpokerrankings.com/index.php?option=com_tracks&view=project&p=2&Itemid=66

JP's masters is already on that list. We are waiting on some dates confirming and then we will fill in around with festivals and EOM games and Other ranking games.

Our aim at IPR next year is to have a different ranking system based on buyin, field size, and position. We are already working and researching many different formulas that we will release to boards.ie for discussion in November. Next year will see more ranking games in Ireland with obviously more ranking points available to larger tournaments.

We will also have a list of the top 10(?) biggest and best tournaments in Ireland which will be on a super calender which will include all of the relevent information about satelitte events as well.

There is already a lot of planned and booked poker tourneys in Ireland for 2010. I guess that people will pick and choose which offer best value and offer the easiest fields. Hopefully they will fit into their bankroll's otherwise we will have a lot of broke poker players as well.

It is going to be a make or break year. I think only the best operators and clubs will survive into 2011.


With reference to OP - there well could still be a market for different style tournaments like a sng, horse or shoot out style tournament. Something different can always be good.

spoofingjam

nicnicnic wrote: »

I wouldn't reduce the buy in JP. I think that the Masters differentiates itself from other tournaments through its Buyin, class structure and demographic of field. I think you've found a great balance with the Masters. Personally if I could only play five major events next year, the Masters would be on my list.

Totlly agree with this i think if u bring the buy in down to 500 it will just be another monkey event and there's lots of them around over the year.

I dont know how some big tourny organisers will survive next year with the amount of events that have been announced already eg ISOP/I.P.C pokerstars tour/2 festivals in the macau etc etc i just cant see consistent numbers next year with so many options available

Mellor

big_iain wrote: »

IPR is already working on a list for next year and we hope to have it complete by the end of the month. http://www.irishpokerrankings.com/index.php?option=com_tracks&view=project&p=2&Itemid=66

JP's masters is already on that list. We are waiting on some dates confirming and then we will fill in around with festivals and EOM games and Other ranking games.

Some of the dates up are wrong, the Omaha event is listed in a different month to its side events,

What tourneys are on in march

kakak1

JP Poker wrote: »

Just back from holidays and looking at some of the festivals already in the pipeline for 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055671054 plus Pokerstars IPT on top of what is already out there. I really think we have gone past saturation point.

anyone got a link to details on this

ZZR1100

kakak1 wrote: »

anyone got a link to details on this

i belive pokerstars are running 3 events next year in ireland. 2k buyin. dublin galway killarney . also a tour to compete with gupkt in england but dont quote me on that

big_iain

Mellor wrote: »

Some of the dates up are wrong, the Omaha event is listed in a different month to its side events,

What tourneys are on in march

Fixed, They where in the right position but wrong dats. they where only changed a few days ago.

JP Poker

kakak1 wrote: »

anyone got a link to details on this

IPC in Galway, €2000, 15th-20th Dec

Killaraney, €1250, 23rd-27th June

Dublin, €1500, 11th-16th Sept

Could be wrong on the dates by a day or 2.


I think that these festivals will could be hugh with pokerstarts behind them.

HiCloy

Casen Worried Firefighter wrote: »

I would just build on what you have JP and I think the €750 buy in for the Masters is pitched perfectly to suit most pockets.

+1, top of my list of what to play next year

I think the IPC could struggle for numbers on those dates

mormank

I think that when it comes to festivals in ireland next year less is more!

The calendar and market are both already flooded imo and if i were you JP I would be looking to consolidate the ones i had already had and would not be looking to add anymore.

JP Poker

mormank wrote: »

I think that when it comes to festivals in ireland next year less is more!

The calendar and market are both already flooded imo and if i were you JP I would be looking to consolidate the ones i had already had and would not be looking to add anymore.

Decided to not go ahead with either a shoot-out or SnG championship.

Probably best to just pump the 2 that I already have.

mormank

I think this is wise. In the current economic climate especially is not the time to expand into a market that is already near bursting point. Perhaps give it a year or two and then expand your games. But either way you have generated a pretty good and loyal following so you shouldnt have much to worry about with regards your current events already on the calendar

one ill cat

I agree with Nicky, if I was limited to only playing a few larger buy-in events in Ireland, the JP Masters is one I'd be looking to prioritise. I agree with the others, the buy-in is ideal, plenty of sats for those that can't afford to buy in directly and it's big enough to interest the bigger players also. If it's not broken don't fix it

I personally like the ideas you were having for your SnG/shoot-out championship, it's different and could do well if priced and scheduled correctly.

There are times when poker is lacking a tourney or 2, so whilst I agree it's harder to get numbers for events in general, I think if this was planned during a 'quiet-ish' period and priced to attract those who play STTs etc for a living it could be a big success. I agree it's risky, and possibly not worth the effort, but could do well imo.