Fiann Failure and the Uncivil Service

mountainyman

Our (Un)Civil Servants mostly vote Fianna Fail that's an anecdote and a bad one. Does anyone know is there any research into demographics and voting in Ireland?

I am particularly interested in the answer to the question what proportion of civil and public servants vote for Fianna Fail/ FG/ the Greens

sceptre

How are they uncivil?

And no, with my mod and admin hat on, that's not an open invitation for all of you.

seancoistine

Broadly speaking, the bottom votes labour/left, the lower middle votes FG/Green/ABFF (anything but FF) the top middle (ambitious) and top votes FF.

It's an interview which decides promotion, no examinations, aptitudes or any of that nonsense. The system replicates itself like DNA.

Aithnionn ciarog ciarog eilre

Know a top fellow in the civil service who is radical socialist worker. Never takes a sick day, gives all his money to causes, can't canvass, but nevertheless a dyed in the wool Leninist.

Unlike the OP, that anecdote is not completely made up. Incidentally anyone remember that old 'priests, nuns and teachers all vote FG' fact line a generation ago? I was told it was an absolute fact, all linked to the republicans and Dev's followers being kicked out of those jobs/vocations for years after the civil war!

MrMicra

This is also something that I have wondered about. I have only anecdotal evidence.
As an example grooms tend to vote (or to say that they vote) and they tend to vote for Fianna Fail. Work Riders on the other hand tend not to vote at all and to decry the practise of voting as pointless.

My own experience (which again is anecdotal) is that public servants tend to vote for Fianna Fail. That said I note that Noonan and Enda Kenny are both teachers.

meditraitor

I was under the impression that the Civil service all vote either FG or FF, a very small amount of lefty leanings.

Side note:I still cant understand why more people dont realise that FG and FF are exactly the same underneath their Blue or Green (ish) shirts so voting for one against the other is just plain idiotic.

asdasd

the bottom votes labour/left, t

Absolutely untrue. The actual statistics are that the Labour used to get the richest voters. That was the Greens in the last election. I think FF still gets the working class vote.

FF is not a conservative party in the mould of the Conservatives - it has presided over much of the creation of the social welfare state, for instance ( not the maintance, the creation). FG was to it's right, up until Garret and Labour. FG traditionally got the vote of the bigger Farmers and old professional classes - i.e. Doctors, Dentists etc.

And the civil war thing, of course. Also, my feeling is that FG members tend to be - shall we say - less nationalist than FF members.

asdasd

asdasd wrote: »

FG was to it's right, up until Garret and Labour.

Even during that regime, Garett and Dick were percieved by many to be elitist and aloof...which was, in fairness to both of them, pretty spot on...and kicking the working classes...

irish_bob

asdasd wrote: »

Absolutely untrue. The actual statistics are that the Labour used to get the richest voters. That was the Greens in the last election. I think FF still gets the working class vote.

FF is not a conservative party in the mould of the Conservatives - it has presided over much of the creation of the social welfare state, for instance ( not the maintance, the creation). FG was to it's right, up until Garret and Labour. FG traditionally got the vote of the bigger Farmers and old professional classes - i.e. Doctors, Dentists etc.

And the civil war thing, of course. Also, my feeling is that FG members tend to be - shall we say - less nationalist than FF members.

only once in the history of the state has this country had a conservative party in goverment and that was the 1st dail under cuman na gael

fianna fail are populist , facing right or left depending on which suits them , presently and this past few years , they are firmly left , fine gael were centre left under garrett , more centre right under bruton and are very much centrist under kenny but regardless of what fine gael are , the fact that they always have to share power with labour results in a non conservative goverment being in power

irish_bob

irish_bob wrote: »

fianna fail are populist , facing right or left depending on which suits them , presently and this past few years , they are firmly left , fine gael were centre left under garrett , more centre right under bruton and are very much centrist under kenny but regardless of what fine gael are , the fact that they always have to share power with labour results in a non conservative goverment being in power

A sensible post and one that is hard to dispute in any way.

We all love to label FF and FG in Ireland, the party of the farmer, the civil servant, whatever. They are both populist, and really the party of anyone they think will give them a vote. And as I have said elsewhere, that is no bad thing...except when they screw up doing it of course...

asdasd

theoretically it is not a bad thing. In practice however, FF ( whom I should be more sympatheic too given my background as a constitutional nationalist) are too incompetent.

That said, I never really got the "mature politics" of the UK, much trumpeted during the Eighties. There was the choice then, of left wing lunacy, or right wing lunacy. They got the right wing luncatic. the long term effects of Thatcherism was to reduce Englands industrial base to the extent that it has not, and will not, recover. I dont think that was inevitable. Look at Germany ( and yes, the unions played their part in the previous decade at undermining it).

compared that that, FG's tallaght stratedgy - in effect not to be the opposition for the opositions sake - was extremely mature.

asdasd

asdasd wrote: »

theoretically it is not a bad thing. In practice however, FF ( whom I should be more sympatheic too given my background as a constitutional nationalist) are too incompetent.

On the other hand, are you saying that we can pin down the problems of Britain to what happened in the 80s and overlook the many subsequent Labour Governments, whereas in Ireland we can pin it down to the recent Governments and overlook the sins of the parties that were in power for most of the 80s?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm no economist, but there perhaps should be a very clear reason as to why the approach is different.

asdasd wrote: »

compared that that, FG's tallaght stratedgy - in effect not to be the opposition for the opositions sake - was extremely mature.

True. But they were facing a very effective and competent Government.

asdasd

whereas in Ireland we can pin it down to the recent Governments and overlook the sins of the parties that were in power for most of the 80s?

to be honest, although they have produced some good governments, FF is better off out of power. I say that as someone who is more nationalist than the average FG voter, and more right wing than a FG_Labour goverment. But this boom and the late 70's boom both were stoked by FF populism. That has to stop.

jmayo

Deleted User wrote: »

On the other hand, are you saying that we can pin down the problems of Britain to what happened in the 80s and overlook the many subsequent Labour Governments, whereas in Ireland we can pin it down to the recent Governments and overlook the sins of the parties that were in power for most of the 80s?

Yes we can pin it down to our recent goevernments

The government of the late 80s and those of the early to mid 90s managed to create a thriving economy.

Our great economic achievements were thrown out the window firstly by increasing public spending post 1997 and then totally wrecked post 2002 when the economy moved form being based on generating exports in technological industries to selling each other totally over valued property using cheap credit.
So the wrecking of our eocnomy is all to do with FF led governments in particular post 2002 :mad:
Sorry couldn't resist

Deleted User wrote: »

True. But they were facing a very effective and competent Government.

Finally haughey got his act together, some would say becuase he didn't have achoice as the IMF were making noises.
This would be the same haughey that spend most of the previous years of the 80s playing politics and of course went on to tells us to tighten our belts whilst he procurred his charvet shirts in Paris thanks to Ben Dunne's generousity. :rolleyes:
It is Ray McSharry that should be remembered and not cj.

Lockstep

asdasd wrote: »

Absolutely untrue. The actual statistics are that the Labour used to get the richest voters. That was the Greens in the last election. I think FF still gets the working class vote

Source please.


the last study I read (written by Brendan Flynn) said that Labour gets the majority of it's support from the unskilled working class (15% of them vote for Labour), with a few less middle classers voting for them, mostly lower middle class (around 14% of the total)
In the 2009 elections, Labour was getting around a third of the vote in Dubliner inner city, dropping to 16% in areas like Dun Laoighre

IIRC, skilled working class tended to vote for FF,
Majority of FG support comes from the middle classes (ditto for Greens), rural vote is pretty split between FF and FG with SF also getting some areas (Swinford in Mayo for example)

Statistically, the party with the greatest proportion of working class votes is SF (5% of voters are working class and vote for SF, only 1% are middle class)