Drum Overhead Techniques

SeanHurley

This has probably been done a million times before but what are your go to overhead mic set ups?

x/y, spaced pair, ORTF? LDCs, SDCs, Ribbons?

We are going to be recording some drums in a couple of weeks (drummer is session guy with an amazing kit (so performance or kit aren't a problem), and I want to try something other than X/Y. For me X/Y is quick to set up and there is no phase issues involved, however, there is a lack of width and "wow" factor. Spaced pairs I never seem to be able to get right and cause me headaches with phaseyness all over the shop. ORTF I have never tried but I am thinking it might be a compromise between X/Y and Spaced Pair.

ogy

id be interested on discussion of this too. i've experimented with spaced pair and ORTF so far, but phasiness makes me lean more towards coincident pair or even mono overhead next time.

also i'm a strong believer in getting phase right at the source but in practice im having difficulty doing it. i position mics where i think they individually sound good then try and phase align them by doing short test recordings and comparing the wave forms, is this daft? there will always be massive phase differences as the sound will obviously hit the spot mics first and then hit the overheads 2 or 3 cycles later. and because percussion is noise and isn't periodic, its not like you can just line up the second crest of the kick with the first crest of the overhead, crests and troughs are different shapes/sizes/lengths.

so your basically left with two options:
- phase align everything by sliding waveforms about in DAW, but for well documented reasons this is a bad idea
- say fuck phase alignment, and only move mics from sweet spots if there is obvious washy phase cancellation that i can hear, and just wait for my ears to get better for more subtle phase cancellation

what say ye?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

spaced pair of ribbons in a good room ( actually even in a dead room )
is wonderful .

beyer m160 or 130

or use small condensers

i dont like the loss of transient snap you get with larger condensers

id place them where both are just above the cymbals looking down the cymbals at the snare - and equ distant from the snare
( measured acuratley )

one in front of the kit / small tom looking at small tom and snare

one at side of kit looking at floor tom and snare
kinda more like side heads than over heads


use this for 75% of the drum sound , and add kick and snare mics to beef it up
record tom mics for safety , but if you eq the overs well , you wont need them

this sums to mono very well well too , little phase issues.



ortf works very well too

never liked xy

DamagedTrax

as above - spaced pair ribbons

but for a modern sound i prefer to put them closer to the centre of the kit facing outwards. find you get less bleed from the kit.

like \ / rather than / \ if you get me?

DamagedTrax

Niall - Dahlia wrote: »

I don't get you, the drums bleeding into the overheads?

yeah?

you always get a bit of kit in the overheads.. sometimes i like a little less than usual.

SeanHurley

DaDumTish and DamagedTrax, how do you go about minimising phase issues and mono compatibility using the spaced pair.

I have tried spaced pairs before (TLM103s, C451s, M160s) and I always have issues with phase even when measuring distance from snare exactly, there always seems to be a washyness in the cymbals.

DamagedTrax

SeanHurley wrote: »

DaDumTish and DamagedTrax, how do you go about minimising phase issues and mono compatibility using the spaced pair.

I have tried spaced pairs before (TLM103s, C451s, M160s) and I always have issues with phase even when measuring distance from snare exactly, there always seems to be a washyness in the cymbals.

i use the UAD IBP plugin if needed (but generally spacing them correctly does the job)



it lets you adjust the phase of a signal thru 360 degrees

DamagedTrax

ah i get you now.

yeah i like to be able to treat the OH as seperate to the kit on a lot of modern sounding stuff.
if i have enough mics to hand then the OH will be the way you use em with the cymbals close mic'd but whats the chances of having that many mics to hand on every session!

i57dwun4yb1pt8

alot of cymbal phasy ness comes from

1/ being to close to the cymbal edge -
this is a no go area, its always better to be higher than the edge , and looking down at cymbal
or down and across a cymbal from a distance more than 12 inches

cymbals also seem to sound better from above or above side , never on edge or below

2/ the mic needs to be inside the 3:1 rule , much closer to the area its for than the other mic
( ie if its 1 foot away , the other mic needs to be 3 feet or more away from the area - preferably more


3/ if you have no ceiling treatment , in a low room or very lively walls ,you can get comb filtering
on the cymbals which phases them .


try to keep the kit in a left right image template ,

small tom snare , hats , crash in one mic

floor tom left crash snare in the other mic

so the snare is bang in the middle ,as is the kick ( or close to middle for the kick )
you get a great stero image this way as the toms pan around with the cymbals .

make sure you measure snare to both mics dead on , and try to keep the toms same distance from each relevant mic
( ie small tom say 4 feet from its mic , floor tom 4 feet from its mic, small tom crash 1 foot from its mic , )

as much as you can .


this will be the most of the drum sound , and it monos up great .

DamagedTrax

another tip is to solo the OH and bring in the rest of the kit in relation to where the pieces are in the OH stereo image. keeps the image nice and tight.

studiorat

Big fan of the mono overhead.

Try getting the drummer to play and get someone to move the microphones around at the same time. When you find a spot you like shout at him to stop!!!!

Lots of rooms mic's are useful to, so you can trigger the room mics from the kik and snr etc...