Does rent deposit equal a contract?

blaz

I just got somewhat screwed by a landord (or agency) and am looking for opinions on what my options are, because I don't want to let it sit at that. I will be seeing a lawyer about this, but am looking for opinions of people (I know, forum opinions can't replace a lawyer, but they can still help me make a decision).

Here's the story: I have to move out of my current apartment on Wednesday, because I want to live closer to city center, so I let the lease expire and the landlord has a new tenant moving in on Thursday. I saw an ad on the internet for a very nice 1 bed apartment and arranged for a viewing. The ad specified the rent and that parking is included. The apartment was just what I was looking for and I decided to rent it. I immediately went to the agent's office and paid a deposit of 60% of the rental (that's all I could scrap together on a Saturday afternoon) to secure the lease. I have a receipt for that. I did not sign a contract, because the agent claimed that they could not get hold of the landlord and that we will arrange the rest on Monday (the viewing was on Saturday).

On Monday the agent calls me and tells me that the landlord has come back to them and wants to increase the rent by another 50€ because parking is included. I said that I agreed to the deal as it was published in the ad and I will not pay more than the agreed price. They said they will get back to the landlord. An hour later they call me again and they said the landlord now wants another 100€, so a total of 150€ more then at the beginning.

Obviously I won't agree to that and will claim my deposit back. Now my problem is that I actually lost 2 days of my time, because I thought that I had secured the lease on Saturday and didn't look at any other options. Now it is Monday evening and I still have no apartment and I have to be out of my current one by Wednesday morning, so I am in an extremely difficult position. Fortunately a friend has agreed to help me out and I will be able to stay at his house until I get this mess sorted.

Now here is my question: do you think I have any rights (except for getting my deposit back, which is obvious)? I really don't want this greedy b**** to get away with this. I have proof that I have paid the deposit for rental of this apartment (the receipt has the address on it), I also have a printout of the web site before the rent increase, but I did not sign any contract. A couple of searches on the internet let me believe that paying a deposit actually equals a contract.

Did anybody come across a situation like that before?

Victor

There might be some basis of a contract, however property rules are different. I wouldn't say too much until I had spoken to my solicitor.

There may separately be a consumer law issue.

curadh

Hi blaz I'm pretty sure you're screwed. You'll get the 'holding' deposit back but unless something was signed thats it. If I was you I'd forget about it and get down to finding a new place.

blaz

curadh wrote: »

Hi blaz I'm pretty sure you're screwed. You'll get the 'holding' deposit back but unless something was signed thats it. If I was you I'd forget about it and get down to finding a new place.

Been working on that the whole day... Several options, but none of them excite me too much. Don't want to agree to a 1 year lease for an apartment that I don't really like.

Still, I'm shocked by the pure greed of landlords this experience has shown. Is this what the Celtic Tiger was built upon? I'm disgusted.

Jo King

Look at the case of Howlin v Power, High Court judgement delivered 5th May 1978.
You have no contract. You migh have grounds for a complaint of false advertising.

blaz

Thanks Jo, that's quite useful. I see you are referring to the same case here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055300620

which is actually the opposite situation (a tenant changing his mind and wanting his deposit back). I fully understand how this would apply to my situation. But my understanding is that then a deposit has no value at all to either the tenant or the landlord: the tenant does not "secure" the lease with it and the landlord can't tie down the tenant either - the tenant can always get his deposit back and the landlord can change his mind and give the deposit back and change the offer. Of course only if no contract was signed.

The only thing I don't understand is why agencies are still collecting deposits from tenants to "secure" the lease?

The thing I learned from this is: unless you have signed a contract, you have nothing.

I presume that going down the "false advertising" route wouldn't take me anywhere either, so as curadh has put it, I'm probably screwed.

I wasn't actually looking for any kind of gain for myself from this, I just wanted to punish the landlord/agency for their greedyness. Oh well, I guess they have a stack of bad karma by now, let's hope that destiny will pay attention to that fact

D3PO

OP i dont see why your trying to pursue this. what do you hope to achieve ?

Kipperhell

This sounds like it is the estate agent being the problem not the landlord. I would guess they had the place on the books and it wasn't renting at the landlord's price so they decided to drop it in the ad. They probably reckoned the landlord would take the offer if it was made.
The landlord then refused and stuck to his guns with the estate agent having to come back to the OP. I have heard of it in the past as the estate agent really doesn't make much more for higher rents. A really good reason never to use letting agents as a landlord and I don't see tenants any happier with them either.

Mr. Presentable

A couple of thoughts.

1) You signed no contract. Neither did the landlord or his agent

2) You didn't pay a deposit. Only a portion of.

So, you are entitled to your money back. That's it.

A person might be able to argue that acceptance of a deposit indicates an agreement, but you didn't even make a full deposit payment.

Carawaystick

Check the Misleading advertising sections of the Consumer protection act 2007.

It's a criminal offence to have misleading advertising.

blaz

nipplenuts wrote: »

A couple of thoughts.

1) You signed no contract. Neither did the landlord or his agent

2) You didn't pay a deposit. Only a portion of.

So, you are entitled to your money back. That's it.

A person might be able to argue that acceptance of a deposit indicates an agreement, but you didn't even make a full deposit payment.

It was the agents suggestion that this amount is ok to "secure the lease" (their words). I actually offered to pay the full amount, but would have to jump through some hoops, being a Saturday and all and Laser cards having a limit of €600 for withdrawals at ATMs.

blaz

D3PO wrote: »

OP i dont see why your trying to pursue this. what do you hope to achieve ?

I am trying to teach the landlord or the agency (whoever is responsible) a lesson. They caused me a lot of trouble and I was hoping that teaching them a lesson might save other tenants the same hassle: if they did it to me, they will most probably do it to others, too.

blaz

Just to let you all know, I decided that it makes no sense to pursue this. I believe that with business practices like this the company will self-destruct sooner or later. In fact I was told by another agent that this agency actually went bust at the height of the property boom in 2007. That explains a lot...

Anyway, I found a serious agency and landlord today, signed a lease, payed the deposit and got the keys. My new apartment is only about 500m away from the other one. I'm a happy camper.

bugler

In today's rental market there really is no reason to bow to any LL pressure or tricks. There is loads of choice out there. You did the right thing - let the dishonest LL go find a dishonest tenant. Who knows what else would have been down the line with these characters, it might well have been a stressful tenancy.

Victor

blaz wrote: »

But my understanding is that then a deposit has no value at all to either the tenant or the landlord: the tenant does not "secure" the lease with it and the landlord can't tie down the tenant either - the tenant can always get his deposit back and the landlord can change his mind and give the deposit back and change the offer. Of course only if no contract was signed.

Be careful - a booking deposit is likely to be treated differently from a security deposit.

The only thing I don't understand is why agencies are still collecting deposits from tenants to "secure" the lease?

The agency was trying to secure its fee.

Sleipnir

Carawaystick wrote: »

Check the Misleading advertising sections of the Consumer protection act 2007.

It's a criminal offence to have misleading advertising.

No it isn't. The Advertising Standards Authority deal with misleading advertising all the time but even their decisions aren't legally binding. You don't even have to respond to them.