Optimum Screen Size for Retro Games...?

TechnoFreek

I recently purchased a 42" tv for my sitting room and while it's amazing for the xbox and ps3 it got me thinking.

I'm in the process of setting up a unit of retro console and tv in my office.
As i will need a other tv I started thinking about screen sizes. Obviously I will be going for a flat screen bit is a 32" flat screen too big for retro games.

Think about it. When the likes of the snes and mega drive dominated the markets in the 90s, the average tv size was probably 21", 24 max (Now I know some of you will say, "well I had a 32" in my gaff" - but to be fair that surely is in the minority. Some others of you might be saying, "whats a snes or mega drive?? ;-) )

The tv's back then were also nice and grainy CRTs.

Now we live in times were the average tv is flat screen, HD ready, and of minimum of 32".

Does this larger size and higher quality actaully impact retro games in a negative way? would playing a smaller CRT do the game more justice?

I havent really come to any conclusion on this myself, just thought I'd throw it out there for some discussion on the retro forum.

Perhaps I just have the rose tinted glasses and I'm talking complete tripe!!

steve_

CRT was what jumped into my mind first. but in fairness 16 bit games look great on LCD tv's. I was playing my snes on my tv in my bedroom which is 32" and it did look a bit pixelated. But then i just resized the screen to 4:3 and my good did it look great. It made everything look so crisp. Granted i did cut out the majority of the screen but it was worth it.

o1s1n

I've given this one a lot of consideration over the years.

For a start, it has to be 4:3. No widescreen here please. The games weren't designed for it.

Although my main tv when I was a kid was somewhere between 15-17 inches (Good oul Telefunken!) I've reached a happy medium at 28 inches.

It's not so big that everything looks incomprehensible, but not so small that everything looks super sharp. You don't want super sharp with these games. They're low res for a reason.

\edit - forgot to mention CRT over LCD. But I thought that would go without question

Retr0gamer

I'm playing my retro games on a 32" LG HD ready TV on my hacked Wii outputting in 480p on a screen that can handle 720p in compoment. It looks absolutely glorious. If anything it's better than a blurry CRT since you can make out all the detail in the pixel art. You don't get the native anti-aliasing effect from the CRT but you can emulate that with filters adding blur and rounding off the edges. However in many peoples eyes this is sacrilege since it blurs the pixel art detail.

Also you have to remember you used to play these old consoles with RF or composite output, more than likely not through true RGB scart. These outputs are by far the worst quality connections you can get and are horrendous on the new consoles are even worse for old 2D games. You'll get washed out colours, blur, jaggies, low definition and dancing pixels along edges of opposing colours. They looked horrible back in the day unless you got an RGB scart cable but many consoles didn't even support that. Through component the colours are brighter and much better defined. With the newest TV's we have it much better than we used to, you can play them the way they were meant to be played.

Also if you don't like the 4:3 image blown up to 16:9 all new TV's have a button that will reduce the display to 4:3.

My advise, the bigger the TV the better and don't use filters since the the art is still gorgeous on the better games.

Whatever you do don't use RF or AV cables. Go for RGB output or Component if you are using a hacked Wii, xbox or with PC go for HDMI/DVI or VGA. Everything will look awful on RF or AV composite.

o1s1n

HD Ready? Filter effects? Begone, heathen! Hiss!!

I suppose if you're forced to use a hacked Wii and not the original hardware....:P

If you can go CRT then to try make sure you get the right signal quality as Retro rightly pointed out.

I suppose it also depends what distance you'll be sitting from the television?

I sit very close due to the size of the room. So the image quality is almost similar to when I'm standing at the arcade cab. Pretty but you can see the pixel definition.

jaykhunter

I completely agree, Retr0gamer. Bigger is definitely better!

Ha, lol. I had this conundrum a few weeks ago when I started playing through some beat-em-ups again

My advice is that you have a 42" TV, so use ALL 42" inches! So the screen is stretched? So what! The characters are animated sprites that are already on the 'roids, it doesn't make a difference!

The characters are already blocky, so having them as huge blocky characters isn't gonna be any worse. Here's my example :


Above is a screenshot of Captain Commando. Looks alright, right?



Here's the same screenshot, scaled down in size and 4:3. Not as great, is it?

I have a big TV aswell, and I love using the whole screen. It doesn't matter that the sprites look like crap, they still look awful on an iPod!!

Happy Gaming man!

Retr0gamer

If you are going for the traditional arcade look however you are going to have to get an arcade monitor. Nothing really looks quite like them and the scan line effect they create is impossible to replicate authentically.

TechnoFreek

hehe,

This turned out to be a more interesting discussion than i thought.

I won't actually be using my 42" tv for the most part. Thats set up in the sitting room. I am going to buy and stick andother tv in the office room and setup the retro consoles up permanently there.

I will be have to be an lcd tv due to space requiremnts. I can defo arrange getting scart cables for as many console as possible e.g. ps1 and saturn but as we go back in time scart becomes less and less of an option

Retr0gamer

Anything after and including SNES and megadrive support scart other than the N64 stupidly. The SNES scart lead requires a bit of a mod to get working but it's really very easy to do.

Brian CivilEng

Another thing to take into account would be for NES games that use the zapper like Duck Hunt a CRT tv is a necessity. The NES zapper doesn't work on modern televisions.

o1s1n

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Another thing to take into account would be for NES games that use the zapper like Duck Hunt a CRT tv is a necessity. The NES zapper doesn't work on modern televisions.

Or any other light gun for that matter

Retr0gamer

I think you can get light guns that do work for modern TVs. Playasia definitely has one for the dreamcast.

o1s1n

Sorry, when I said 'any other light gun' I meant original retro ones. Recently there have been ones made for LCDs. They work like wiimotes as far as I know. Censor bars go around the edges of the screen and it picks it up like that rather than the old 'light' way.

I'm fairly sure there's one for the PS2 aswell. So you can play Time Crisis...

Still though, it's no Gcon45!

Tallon

God darn I miss using my light guns...
Im going to have to buy a 21"< 60Hz :rolleyes:

jaykhunter

TechnoFreek wrote: »

I am going to buy and stick andother tv in the office room and setup the retro consoles up permanently there.

That, sir, is AWESOME!

Hey, anyone still play Time Crisis or has the game at home? Any good?

Myrddin

O1s1n has hit the nail on the head. 28" CRT is the sweet spot for retro. They look absoloutely horrific when ran through a 42" lcd/plasma. They may look ok if emulated through the wii or whatnot, but then, thats just emulation.

If you must go lcd, I would suggest the biggest 4:3 you can find, culminating at the 28" level, any bigger exposes serious pixelation.

Retr0gamer

They only look awful if you are playing on composite. If you are using scart they look great.

jaykhunter

Maybe a good idea would be to rent the Sega Master Collection and play some retro games on it, see what size suits.

CiDeRmAn

Well, if it's anything like the screen I played my Spectrum on, the optimum screen is a 14" Black and White telly!
When playing retro games via modern emu, on the 360 or via PSN or VC, then the modern console does a certain amount of post processing to make the graphics acceptable on a large format display.
But the OP is right, if played on original hardware then a 4:3 is the only way to go, although I have been using a 29" CRT 4:3 Sony for my retrogaming and it's fine.

I reckon you should, if space allows, seek out a really good brand of CRT, the natural blurring effect of the display makes the retro titles look more, natural, then on an LCD display that they weren't designed for.

Also, using a CRT means you keep the functionality of your lightgun games.

Dr Bob

Might be worth noting that most light guns for retro consoles /computers tend not to work with LCD screens so a CRT is worth looking for.

CiDeRmAn

luas_dublin wrote: »

Might be worth noting that most light guns for retro consoles /computers tend not to work with LCD screens so a CRT is worth looking for.

A point, I believe, I just made, above.
And, unless the lightgun comes with a sensor bar system like the Wii or the GunCon system on the PS3 it will not work at all on LCD displays, no exceptions, it's a fundamental problem with the way the CRT and LCD differ in how they work.

o1s1n

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

A point, I believe, I just made, above.

And a point, I believe, I just made, on the previous page.

Brian CivilEng

o1s1n wrote: »

And a point, I believe, I just made, on the previous page.

Hey, I'm hopping on this bandwagon too

Dr Bob

Doh!
thats what happens when you read a thread one day , and reply the following without rereading it.

CiDeRmAn

Touché,
Turtle in fact!

Must read the thread front to back before posting!

But there are so many great LCD deals out there right now, it's hard to resist.
Although the lack of any ready cash these days is a pretty good assist in the resisting process!