Nutrition questions

Johnster

Hi all,

Someone on here might be able to help me with this. I am training J4 level but hope to improve to J3 at some stage this year.

What should I be eating for lunch before going training eg should I have a big meal or small meal and chould it be mostly carbs or mostly protein? Also, training starts at 7/730, should I eat something before I go?

I have started putting more effort into the gym recently too. Does anyone take supplements (like whey protein)? For recovery after rugby training and size/tone in the gym? Any reccomendations?

Thanks

justsomebloke

what is your current diet like and also when do you all your training

Johnster

Diet is v good. I am a wing/scrumhalf. 5'9" and 160lbs.

I eat a lot of home cooked vegie meals (gf is a vegie) and meat at least 4 times a week. Prob could use a bit more protein.

Team training in tues and thurs nights. Do weights on a Monday, Wednesday and Sat(if no game). Going to try do some jogging in mornings also.

theKramer

I can help you with the gym part. I would recommend taking a basic protein first thing in the morning and just before going to bed.
You take it in the morning as you have been sleeping all night so your muscles are low on protein.
You take it again at night before going to bed as your muscles recuperate and grow when you are resting, so you need the protein before you go to bed so your muscles dont go "hungry".

I would recommend doing legs on one specific day. I do this legs workout and its pretty good: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/animalpak80.htm
I do that legs workout and I find it very good. You should be aiming for 3 sets of 10 reps and lifting as much as you can. Your legs can handle it. Plus, I would prioritise legs over upper body any week I work out, as rugby is all about leg power.

If you want a post workout recovery drink, then try NutritionX's RAM. You can get it here fairly cheap: http://www.discountsupplements.ie/product/1219

As regards before going rugby training, which is at 7pm, I usually have something small at around 5pm to keep me going, and have something small again when I get back home. You dont want to have a big meal before going to bed, but you dont wanna go to bed without anything as thats not good either. I usually take the RAM after a rugby training session as well

Hope that helps.

justsomebloke

Johnster wrote: »

Diet is v good. I am a wing/scrumhalf. 5'9" and 160lbs.

I eat a lot of home cooked vegie meals (gf is a vegie) and meat at least 4 times a week. Prob could use a bit more protein.

Team training in tues and thurs nights. Do weights on a Monday, Wednesday and Sat(if no game). Going to try do some jogging in mornings also.

you say it is very good and then say you could get more protein, so chances are your diet isn't that great so again post it up

justsomebloke

theKramer wrote: »

I would recommend doing legs on one specific day. I do this legs workout and its pretty good: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/animalpak80.htm
I do that legs workout and I find it very good. You should be aiming for 3 sets of 10 reps and lifting as much as you can. Your legs can handle it. Plus, I would prioritise legs over upper body any week I work out, as rugby is all about leg power.

truthfully unless you are a bodybuilder I wonder ignore that programme, actually if I was a body builder I would ignore it as well, squats at the end of a programme , big compound lifts should be done first not last.

Also given his timetable full body workouts would be a lot better

OldJay

With regards to diet and training, you should take advice on this from a professional really.
There's an entire section of our website dedicated to advice on nutrition.
See HERE

justsomebloke

Justind wrote: »

With regards to diet and training, you should take advice on this from a professional really.
There's an entire section of our website dedicated to advice on nutrition.
See HERE

very little detail actually in that though and misses a lot of details throughly after reading that read though this sticky from the fitness forum which will have a lot more info

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054876750

theKramer

Joe the Santa wrote: »

truthfully unless you are a bodybuilder I wonder ignore that programme, actually if I was a body builder I would ignore it as well, squats at the end of a programme , big compound lifts should be done first not last.

Also given his timetable full body workouts would be a lot better

As I said, rugby is all about legs, so that is the main priority. I do legs one day, upper body the other, during rugby season. And it works pretty well for me. I play back-row, and have actually noticed an increase in sprinting speed, over short distances admittedly, over last year.
Also, squats were in the middle of that program. Deadlifts were at the end.

justsomebloke

theKramer wrote: »

As I said, rugby is all about legs, so that is the main priority. I do legs one day, upper body the other, during rugby season. And it works pretty well for me. I play back-row, and have actually noticed an increase in sprinting speed, over short distances admittedly, over last year.
Also, squats were in the middle of that program. Deadlifts were at the end.

I know legs are the most important but having a dedicated leg day 1) isn't the most useful time wise when you are only training twice a week plus 2) the DOMS involved with a dedicated leg day will probably impede on his Rugby training and rugby training should be taking priority over weight training.

you can quite easily work the legs just as effectively in 2 full body work out days as you can in a dedicated leg day you just have to structure the programme correctly. Also if the OP can preform either cleans or snatches they would be better being incorporated due to the explosive power would be more advantages. That and the OP should also be incorporating sprint training into his programme.

Also I would building a programme around doing sets of more then 8, as you should be trying to focus on strength gains as oppose to hypertrophy training so doing 3x3 training or 5x5 training would probably be more beneficial then a standard 3x8 programme.

Ye just noticed before you commented that it I some how managed to miss the hamstrings part but truthfully I find putting deadlifts at the end of a routine slightly odd as you will have wasted a good chuck of your energy doing everything else so chances are good ROM will go out the window when you are doing DL and increase your chances of injury. Actually due to the stress they can put on you some people will advise putting deadlifts and squats on different days, now I don't agree with that but I think if you are doing them on the same day you should be structing your routine so that you are as fresh as possible doing them

Johnster

Joe the Santa wrote: »

you say it is very good and then say you could get more protein, so chances are your diet isn't that great so again post it up

I could use more protien as I dont eat meat every day but diet is good otherwise. Lots of fresh fruit and veg, very few processed foods. A good balance but if I want to increase size a bit I need more protein.

It was really the pre-training food that I was looking for info on. The links to Irish Rugby and boards fitness were perfect.

Thanks for the programme theKramer. I have one from a rugby training book which suggests a whole body workout but with good emphasis on legs also. I am a back so not involved in the rucks as much as you guys. Think the leg day might be a bit intense for me. I will defo think about that Ram supplement. Looks to be the kind of stuff I am looking for.

Have heard bad things about MaxiMuscle products. Anyone with any experience?

Sangre

Johnster wrote: »

I could use more protien as I dont eat meat every day but diet is good otherwise. ?

Fish, eggs, cheese, nuts, pulses etc., will cover you if you're not eating meat on a given day.

As long as your workouts include squats, deadlifts, bench press, press, chins, dips and rows you'll be ok. Whether you do a split or full body is a matter of preference usually. I would aim for 3x5 or thereabouts rather than 3x10. Stronger legs will increase your sprinting speed.

theKramer

Johnster wrote: »

Have heard bad things about MaxiMuscle products. Anyone with any experience?

If its for sale in Argos, then I would stay well away from it NutritionX do a fairly decent basic protein powder. You should find it on that site I sent you earlier. They also do free delivery for orders over €50, which is nice.

As regards workouts, they are a dime a dozen. Whatever works best for you is what you should stick with. As the yanks say "Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody has got one"

I would try and work in some chicken or beef into your meals if you can, then add in protein shakes after. I would always go for the natural option first.

Good luck

BigDuffman

Maximuscle is top class stuff. I've been using it for last 4 years! The protein and gainer products are unreal. Cyclone isn't the market leader for no reason. It is pricey though. Nutrition X or USN are also safe bets.

You get what you pay for regarding nutritional products. Stay away from the "Polish specials" 5kg Doggy bags of white "protein" powder...yeah they are cheap but no use unless you want to spend half the night on the jacks or farting all day.

Also that stuff rarely has any of the necessary scientific checks and testing standards that most of the bigger brands have.

Regarding workouts be dynamic. Too many people ignore core stability and leg work in the quest for biceps the size of melons!

justsomebloke

BigDuffman wrote: »

Cyclone isn't the market leader for no reason. It is pricey though.

no it is the market leader due to the amount of money they spend on advertising and getting market placement in places like argos etc and this is why they are well over priced for what they are.

myprotein.co.uk, irish-lifting.com, fitnessireland.com will all generally stock better quality stuff at cheaper prices

eroo

Johnster wrote: »

What should I be eating for lunch before going training eg should I have a big meal or small meal and chould it be mostly carbs or mostly protein? Also, training starts at 7/730, should I eat something before I go?
Eat a lunch with a good mixture of protein, carbs and fat. Pasta with 2/3 chicken fillets would be good. Wash it down with water.. and continue to drink water throughout the day to keep hydrated. A banana, and a bottle of powerade(sip it dont chug it down!) about 60-45 minutes before training will do you for energy requirements. Take a protein shake(or a litre of milk) within an hour of training. Give your body the nutrients it needs to repair.
I have started putting more effort into the gym recently too. Does anyone take supplements (like whey protein)? For recovery after rugby training and size/tone in the gym? Any reccomendations?
Whey protein supp's are a great way to supplement your diet and they make life a little easier trying to get your daily calorie/protein/carb/fat needs. Optimum Nutrition Gold Whey is v.good. Stay away from over priced tripe like Nutrition X, Maximuscle etc! If you want to put on size, do it in the off season ONLY!! Milk will be your greatest ally then;)haha
Thanks

Hope this helps.

Big_G

theKramer wrote: »

As I said, rugby is all about legs, so that is the main priority. I do legs one day, upper body the other, during rugby season. And it works pretty well for me. I play back-row, and have actually noticed an increase in sprinting speed, over short distances admittedly, over last year.
Also, squats were in the middle of that program. Deadlifts were at the end.

All I can say to that is core is crucial also. Never neglect the core when playing rugby.

BigDuffman

Joe the Santa wrote: »

no it is the market leader due to the amount of money they spend on advertising and getting market placement in places like argos etc and this is why they are well over priced for what they are.

myprotein.co.uk, irish-lifting.com, fitnessireland.com will all generally stock better quality stuff at cheaper prices

I strongly disagree with that. Whilst yeah your right their stuff is very pricey as a result of their marketing and sponsorship. Nutrition X is better value for some items (fat burners etc) money in my opinion, but I'm sold on quality not value. If I was into quantity I'd be throwing some eastern European chalk down my neck or having Tuna Shakes (the memories).

The likes of Cyclone is a Market leader as it is quite simply a better product. See any health publication such as MH for their comparison.

But like I said thats my opinion after trying a few different products over the last few years. Everyones experience is difference.

RMD

Stay away from Maximuscle, it's simply overpriced. Complete supplements are a new enough brand which are making good value supplements, their whey and creatine seems good (contents wise) and good value. Check them out.

As for a workout try this http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752. It's a great program if you have little knowledge of weight lifting, it's all about building strength through compound lifts which are essential for Rugby. In Rugby no muscle works in isolation, they all work together so compound strength lifts are essential.

Personally, the 4 essential exercises for Rugby are: Bench, Squats, Powercleans and Deadlifts. These are all the most well known of compounds and are great exercises for building strength through the body. All you need for each is what every gym has, barbell, bench and a squat rack.

The 3 essentials for building up your body and strength:
Rest
Diet
Lift.

Rest is essential and so is Diet, do not underrate either, do not slack on either. They make up the vast majority of gains.

Sangre

BigDuffman wrote: »

The likes of Cyclone is a Market leader as it is quite simply a better product. See any health publication such as MH for their comparison.

MH? Not exactly the most highly regarded publication in its field. Unless you want killer abs in 6 weeks.

eroo

BigDuffman wrote: »

I strongly disagree with that. Whilst yeah your right their stuff is very pricey as a result of their marketing and sponsorship. Nutrition X is better value for some items (fat burners etc) money in my opinion, but I'm sold on quality not value. If I was into quantity I'd be throwing some eastern European chalk down my neck or having Tuna Shakes (the memories).

The likes of Cyclone is a Market leader as it is quite simply a better product. See any health publication such as MH for their comparison.

But like I said thats my opinion after trying a few different products over the last few years. Everyones experience is difference.

It's a market leader because it has a top class marketing department, and it sponsors countless numbers of athletes. Just like Nutrition X for example.. now that Munster Rugby has endorsed it, every 16 year old schools player will be guzzling down Mass X and Creatine X or whatever the stuff is. It's all about marketing and endorsements in the supplement industry.

Quality is the most important factor in addressing your supplement needs, with cost almost equaling quality. Finding a product that meets both needs is quite difficult. But the likes of Optimum Nutrition and Dymatize have good reps. Now I'm not saying the likes of Nutrition X, Maximuscle etc aren't any good, just that because teams endorse them and magazines advertise them.. doesnt mean they are any better than other supplements.

justsomebloke

BigDuffman wrote: »

The likes of Cyclone is a Market leader as it is quite simply a better product. See any health publication such as MH for their comparison.

Seriously The likes of MH and any of the other fitness magazines would rely heavily on adverts and with maxi muscle being one of the biggest players they aren't going to want to **** in their own back garden that is why they will give them good reviews.

If you want good recomendations for supplements ask for the fitness forum in their supplements thread

Beau

Joe the Santa wrote: »

If you want good recomendations for supplements ask for the fitness forum in their supplements thread

I'd listen to Joe the Santa. I'd also post up your current workout and recored your diet for a day or two and post that up in FULL (not just plenty of veg here and there, give the time and quantities for each meal)in the fitness forum. The fitness forum is where its at to be honest, don't mind this bs about Maximuscle or split routines, you'll get told exactly what you need over there by people who know what they are talking about.