Foil back insulation affects phone coverage?

bonzos

Hi guys , is it true that foil back insulation such as kingspan..etc will block the signal on your mobile phone. I have been told it acts as a screen and blocks the signal.I am at the planning stage of a house at the moment and dont plan to have a lineline in the house(2 mobile bills is enough) so this would mean that when im in the house i will be out of coverage and will spend a fortune returning calls when i leave it.Any ideas on how to overcome this issue?

Mellor

This isn't true, it won't have any impact on your mobile phone bill.
And for god's sake get a landline

mr_edge_to_you

Ye, you should put in a landline. At least put in the wiring. You don't need to connect. Put in a phone socket beside your tv as well for sky. If you can get it is better for broadband in my opinion. You also have the option dare I say it of scrapping the 2nd mobile bill. Switch to ready to go to recieve calls and use landline to make outgoing calls.

secman

We used a foil back insulation and it most definitely affects the mobile phone signal. Often have to go outside to make or take a call, in fact had to do it 3 times yesterday. Its difficult to get 1 bar of signal inside but once I step outside I get 3 full bars on signal. I have sussed out 2 spots in house where I can just about get 1 bar !.

Secman

bonzos

Mellor wrote: »

This isn't true, it won't have any impact on your mobile phone bill.
And for god's sake get a landline

Maybe you took me up wrong about the landline,but i do plan to leave plenty of phone points in the house just im am not going to get them connected.Most of the topics on this forum are about cutting longterm costs over the life of your home,usually on heating.I think the paying for landline rental and call costs over a number of years is an issus especially since most home have at least 2 mobils bills also.

sydthebeat

secman wrote: »

We used a foil back insulation and it most definitely affects the mobile phone signal. Often have to go outside to make or take a call, in fact had to do it 3 times yesterday. Its difficult to get 1 bar of signal inside but once I step outside I get 3 full bars on signal. I have sussed out 2 spots in house where I can just about get 1 bar !.

Secman

how do you know that its the foil on the insulation and not simply the mass of the house construction.....

my local supermarket, which i know has no foil backed insulation, has no reception in it, but once i step outside i have full reception.

wrap your phone in tin foil and see if it has any effect.....

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

wrap your phone in tin foil and see if it has any effect.....

You're a twisted man syd

Kashkai

We too had the kingspan insulation put in and we have little or no coverage in the house but once we step outside, we get a full signal. If we stand near a window (and thus no kingspan in the way), we can also get a signal so I do think it at least plays a part in reducing the mobile signal. A mass of concrete bricks would also play a part!!

I wouldn't reduce the insulation in the walls though just to get a better mobile signal as you'll end up paying a lot more for heating bills with poor wall insulation.

mickdw

Ive found that if the insulation is continuous with metal taped joints etc, the phone signal disappears in all cases.
With the regs getting tighter all the time this will get worse so I can see very soon a common place special antenna being fitted to housing externally taking the signal inside or a docking station for the mobile like a car setup linking it to external antenna.

muffler

I dont know where all this is coming from as the foil acts as a huge antenna

mr_edge_to_you

They should put kingspan in cinemas so. That'd be great.

sydthebeat

if we were to de-construct this slightly.....

mobile signals are radio waves...
the strength of these waves depends on many factors, including distance from base station, strength of emitter on the base station (which basically means which network you're with) and any obstruction between the cell phone and the base station.

if the theory that aluminium foil on insulation 'significantly' affects radiowaves then it should be easily tested. My suggestion to wrap the phone in tin foil was a serious one . If the signal is affected then its clear the aluminium foil has an effect. However, if the signal doesnt change, that would then mean that it is other factors that are effecting the signal in homes. I would argue that the simple mass of the construction has a much more significant effect than aluminium foil. And remember, most roof constructions wouldnt have aluminium foil in its construction.....

BERmad

I would agree that foil back insulation does have an affect on phone coverage. Last year I was working on a dormer house that was being insulated, I found that after the insulation was in there was a lot less phone coverage than before when there was no insulation.

sunnysoutheast

The foil insulation significantly attenuates mobile (radio) signals, in our case down to nothing in most of the house. WiFi is similarly affected.

It acts as a faraday cage, not an antenna.

Why do you think the "tin foil hat" brigade is so named

SSE

sydthebeat

well, im shocked...

i wraped my phone in a single skin of tin foil and the reception went from full strength 5 bars to absolutely noting "emergency calls only" mode...

im convinced...

bonzos

I have done a little research and the only way around this seems to be a device called a mobile repeater,which consists of an antena on the outside of the house linked to a unit inside which boosts the signal..cost around €350,anyone ever use this device?

A country home

is most insulation foiled back?

rebel.ranter

bonzos wrote: »

I have done a little research and the only way around this seems to be a device called a mobile repeater,which consists of an antena on the outside of the house linked to a unit inside which boosts the signal..cost around €350,anyone ever use this device?

Yes a repeater would work to solve the problem, however it is illegal to re-broadcast a licensed mobile operator's frequencies, which is what a repeater does. If such a unit were to go faulty it could cause problems for the coverage cell that you were repeating, operators could detect this unit if it were to go faulty.
Foil backed insulation, porta cabins or a corrugated roof can all play havoc with RF signals so I would well believe that the foil backed insulation could have a dramatic effect on coverage indoors.

sunnysoutheast

Vodafone have just released a 3G femtocell repeater in the UK, I expect they'll be sold over here before long. It plugs into your broadband connection, has access control etc. built in. It's about £160.

SSE

bonzos

bonzos wrote: »

I have done a little research and the only way around this seems to be a device called a mobile repeater,which consists of an antena on the outside of the house linked to a unit inside which boosts the signal..cost around €350,anyone ever use this device?

If you're adventurous, you could try making passive repeaters.

This is simply a length of coax with a dipole at each end made by separating the inner core from the braid each about 6cm in length, do this at both ends have one end of the coax outside or in the attic and the other end at a blindspot.

If you know the frequencies the phone operates at then you can make the dipoles to the exact length required.

Mellor

Deleted User wrote: »

If you know the frequencies the phone operates at then you can make the dipoles to the exact length required.

About 330mm I believe (GSM 900)

Glulam

the mobile signal in my house is also very poor as I have 38mm "cosy board" installed on all external walls and concrete floors.
I also have a similar problem with my wireless router and I'm thinking I'll have to install a few repeaters around the house to improve the signal quality.

Are these passive repeaters that easy to make???

Is the length of the dipoles different for each mobile phone in the house or is it unique to the signal.

Mellor

It's based on the wavelength, so its the same for the signal.
Bare in mide, different operators might use GSM 900 or GSM 1800. I think 900 is the norm.

mfceiling

Lads this is class - i'm boarding a huge house in the midlands and there is a huge amount of the kingspan insulation being used and guess what?...the signal on the phone is non existant.

Syd you have too much time on your hands if you are wrapping your phone in tinfoil!:D..runs to kitchen cupboard!

sydthebeat

mfceiling wrote: »

Syd you have too much time on your hands if you are wrapping your phone in tinfoil!:D..runs to kitchen cupboard!

to me thats entertainment.....

yeah, i know, sad really....

Each leg of the dipole needs to be 1/4 of the wavelength, therefore assuming one wavelength is 330mm then each leg needs to be 82mm in length.