Sinn Fein TD's pledge to get blood sports motion rescinded

Slaphead07

I suppose now that they're killing less people....

Sinn Fein TD's pledge to get blood sports motion rescinded
The Irish Council Against Blood Sports has learned that Martin Ferris, TD has given coursers, foxhunters and deerhunters a guarantee that he will get a Sinn Fein motion to ban bloodsports overturned. The motion, calling for "a total ban on all blood sports, including hare coursing and fox hunting" was passed at Sinn Fein's 2009 Ardfheis after delegates voted in its favour.

Mr Ferris's determination to thwart this democratic process was revealed in a recent edition of greyhound journal, the 'Sporting Press', and more recently at a meeting of the Hunting Association of Ireland (representing foxhunters, hare hunters and deer hunters). At the meeting held in Cork in recent weeks, "Martin Ferris TD assured the meeting of his unequivocal support for hunting and all other field sports and of his intention to gain party support likewise." (source Hunting Association of Ireland website).

Meanwhile, in the Sporting Press article, it was reported that D.J. Histon, the head of the ICC, announced at a provincial meeting that they had "recently met with Martin Ferris of Sinn Fein in relation to the motion to ban blood sports" and that "Mr. Ferris had given a guarantee that he would get the motion overturned at the next Ard Fheis."

The motion was presented by Ogra Sinn Fein at the party's Ard Fheis earlier this year. A separate motion claiming that coursing is not a blood sport was rejected.

ICABS is stunned by Martin Ferris's arrogance and apparent disregard for the views of the majority of Sinn Fein members who expressed their support for a bloodsports ban.

ICABS has made Deputy Ferris aware that coursing results in injury and/or death to hares at all stages - the violent capture from the wild in nets, the stress of being manhandled and transported in boxes, the unnatural confinement in coursing compounds and the maulings by greyhounds. Some years ago, Martin Ferris attended an ICABS information meeting in Dail Eireann, where he was shown video footage of a fox being dug out and torn apart by hounds, deer being hounded and hares being severely mauled. At that meeting, he expressed his opposition to fox hunting, but said that he didn't consider hare coursing to be a "blood sport".

Meanwhile, we call on the Minister for Environment, John Gormley, not to renew the licence to net hares for coursing for the coursing season which begins at the end of September. Mr. Gormley has strong conservation reasons not to grant this licence, as the hare population is in decline, and this decline continues as a recent survey published in Northern Ireland shows, and in response to that decline, all hare hunting across the border has been suspended for the last five years, while down south, our Green Minister turns a blind eye to the problem, and allows our precious hare population to be recklessly exploited by the coursers and other assorted hare hunters.

Every coursing season, hares continue to be injured and killed by greyhounds at coursing meetings and last year was no exception, as reports obtained by ICABS under FOI revealed. For example, at Enniscorthy - 7 hares were mauled by dogs, with six dying of their injuries; Ballyheighue, Co. Kerry - 6 hares hit and 4 killed; Gorey -11 hares hit, 7 injured and 5 put down because of injuries; Doon - 11 hares hit, 4 died from injuries, and so the catalogue of cruelty continues, year on year, as we approach 2010 in a so-called civilised country!

It's time for Minister John Gormley to live up to his Green credentials and move to give the hare the protection it so desperately needs. He should stand up to Brian Cowen and his pro-coursing Fianna Fail buddies and call time on this barbarism

ACTION ALERT

Please ask Minister John Gormley (Green Party) to stop licensing coursing. Email "STOP LICENSING CRUEL HARE COURSING" to minister@environ.ie

Thoushaltnot

From the Dept of the Environment site from last year;
http://www.environ.ie/en/Heritage/NationalParksandWildlife/Biodiversity/News/MainBody,18259,en.htm

I didn't enquire about this;

" To examine this issue further, the Minister announced that a pilot programme of catch per unit effort monitoring will be initiated over the autumn with a view to developing a reliable and consistent indicator of annual hare population fluctuations.

Dr Ferdia Marnell, Head of Animal Ecology at NPWS, went on to elaborate: “Since muzzling was introduced in 1994 an average of 95% of the 5,000 hares captured annually by coursing clubs are returned to the wild. However, further research is required to establish the survival rate and re-integration of these released hares post-coursing and we intend to develop an extensive research programme to investigate this matter in 2009.” "

This issue does seem to have fallen by the wayside but if you wan to help more and have access to a printer, this is handy;
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17606111/Minister-Gormley-Stop-Licensing-Hare-Coursing

Missiechan

Seems to me someone has delusions of being an upper-class twit.

Speaking of similar things, Clarissa Dickson Wright (formerly of Two Fat Ladies) wrote an article in the Daily Mail decrying animal rights protestors as a bunch of thugs interfering with a lovely outdoor pastime. Thankfully it came off as petty and kinda snobbish.

Also, one might think she wouldn't have to call herself a fat lady if she used less lard in her cooking.

spanielman

What crap, more insane dripple form the antis, this is a centuries old tradition, a dog kills within seconds and 100%, a bullet does not due to human error!!
The quote about SF, not killing people anymore just deviated from the question in hand and shows your arrogance!!!

sweet-rasmus

badhareday and spaneilman has been given a warning and their unnecessary posts deleted.

Edit: spaneilman has been banned and subsequent posts deleted.

henryporter

Ahem.... Trolling methinks

rockmongrel

Sure who votes for Sinn Fein anyway, everything is a bloodsport to them.

CokaColumbo

rockmongrel wrote: »

Sure who votes for Sinn Fein anyway, everything is a bloodsport to them.

I wouldn't be so dismissive of Sinn Fein if I were you. After all, to answer your question, the majority of Nationalists in the north vote for them... that's who. And in my opinion, the recent history of Sinn Fein has been largely misconstrued by those who don't actually know that much about the conflict in the North to begin with.

To stay on topic, I think this is a disappointing move on the part of Ferris. It seems to me that he is more interested in roping in the votes rather than doing what is right. That said, welcome to classic politics...

spanielman

Who determines what is "right"????
Sorry for the delay Methinks i upset someone here and got a banning order!!!!

spanielman

rockmongrel wrote: »

Sure who votes for Sinn Fein anyway, everything is a bloodsport to them.

hundreds of thousands vote for SF they are the fastest growing party on this Island, they are not in Government, so wave ur green baton in someone elses face!!!!!

CokaColumbo

spanielman wrote: »

Who determines what is "right"????

I assumed it was taken for granted in this forum that promoting the killing of other animals for reasons of convenience, pleasure and/or amusement is wrong and that therefore this move on the part of Martin Ferris is, by the standards of ethically motivated vegans at least, wrong.

That is my opinion at least.

spanielman

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I assumed it was taken for granted in this forum that promoting the killing of other animals for reasons of convenience, pleasure and/or amusement is wrong and that therefore this move on the part of Martin Ferris is, by the standards of ethically motivated vegans at least, wrong.

That is my opinion at least.

Ah yes "ethically" motivated vegans! Well i suppose if u judge whats right by ur own standards u may never be wrong!

CokaColumbo

spanielman wrote: »

Ah yes "ethically" motivated vegans! Well i suppose if u judge whats right by ur own standards u may never be wrong!

It is a generally accepted truth in society that, in theory at least, it is wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering upon animals; this is reflected in the fact that we have animal welfare laws. That is a societal standard, not my just my own.

If you sat down and thought about it for a sec, I think you would find that to be a vegan is to simply take the well intentioned but largely empty rhetoric of society and actually put it into practice. That's largely what it comes down to.

spanielman

CokaColumbo wrote: »

It is a generally accepted truth in society that, in theory at least, it is wrong to inflict unnecessary suffering upon animals; this is reflected in the fact that we have animal welfare laws. That is a societal standard, not my just my own.

If you sat down and thought about it for a sec, I think you would find that to be a vegan is to simply take the well intentioned but largely empty rhetoric of society and actually put it into practice. That's largely what it comes down to.

There are NO animals laws being broken by hare hunting, this is a legal sport???? The real issue here is about aesthetics, NOT morals, no one complains when the house wifes batters a siper or councils spend millions of our taxes on putting down poison to curb mice and rats, which to all intents and purposes is the cruelest of all forms of death, like much in life its all about what u look like that gets the sympathy vote and foxes and hares are right up there!!!!

CokaColumbo

spanielman wrote: »

There are NO animals laws being broken by hare hunting, this is a legal sport????

As I said before when referring to society's beliefs regarding the moral status of animals: 'empty rhetoric'.

spanielman wrote: »

The real issue here is about aesthetics, NOT morals, no one complains when the house wifes batters a siper or councils spend millions of our taxes on putting down poison to curb mice and rats, which to all intents and purposes is the cruelest of all forms of death, like much in life its all about what u look like that gets the sympathy vote and foxes and hares are right up there!!!!

I don't think that there is much point in debating this issue with you because I did clearly state that vegans think it is wrong to unnecessarily kill animals, all animals, but yet you are claiming that we do not care when mice and rats are poisoned.

My view on animal rights at least is that there is no moral or logical distinction whatsoever between the life of a pigeon and the life of dog; between the life of a pig and the life of a cat; between the life of a hare and the life of a rat.

And I don't know why you are convinced that Animal Rights isn't about morality...

spanielman

Ur talking about societys "laws" u are but a part of society, as am i??? Who is right and who is wrong is a matter of interpretation! Vegans make up but a tiny percentage of our society, and society in general terms cares not one jot about the plight of rats and mice, hence my aestetics comment, if u do what want to debate further that is fine!!!
however this is a LEGAL activity, as defined but social and civil LAW!!!!

spanielman

PS do u think it is immoral of me to kill and eat my own food?

CokaColumbo

spanielman wrote: »

PS do u think it is immoral of me to kill and eat my own food?

If you do not need animal products to sustain your well-being (i.e. for survival) then yes I think it is wrong to take away their lives.

I think our consumption of animals for food is absolutely unjustifiable and unnecessary. That said I do not find the killing of wild animals to be any worse (or better) than buying meat in a shop.

P.S. I used to be an avid fisher during past summers in Wexford and Baltimore.

spanielman

Well i can see how that would change u, "if fish could scream", is a quote one person told me once! How anyone can drag an animal about for over half and hour with a great hook in its mouth is beyound me, i kill my food quickly with the minimum of fuss and stress!
do u know some fishermen don't even eat the fish they catch, like course fishing, they just throw them back, now that is a sin!!!

one-angry-dwarf

Spanielman, I think the reason why so many people (not just vegetarians) are against bloodsports is that because to most, killing an animal without good reason, by whatever method is unacceptable.
A lot of people are apathetic towards the killing of mice, rats etc because they are pests. Councils aren't killing rats for the fun of it, it's just something they feel has to be done. The same can be said of killing for food, clothes, science etc. Although killing animals for these purposes aren't strictly necessary, people weigh up their desire for meat against their sympathy at the suffering of animals. Ultimately they choose meat and justify the choice in their own way.

HOWEVER, bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Becausee it's unnecessary. Simple as that. People do it for fun and no other reason and this is why it's unacceptable to most ethically minded people.

The fact that it is a centuries old tradition in this country is irrelevant. Human sacrafice is a tradition we don't practice anymore and rightly so. Some traditions belong in the past.

CokaColumbo

one-angry-dwarf wrote: »

HOWEVER, bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Becausee it's unnecessary. Simple as that. People do it for fun and no other reason and this is why it's unacceptable to most ethically minded people.

What makes the killing of animals for food any more necessary than the killing of animals for sport?

spanielman

one-angry-dwarf wrote: »

Spanielman, I think the reason why so many people (not just vegetarians) are against bloodsports is that because to most, killing an animal without good reason, by whatever method is unacceptable.
A lot of people are apathetic towards the killing of mice, rats etc because they are pests. Councils aren't killing rats for the fun of it, it's just something they feel has to be done. The same can be said of killing for food, clothes, science etc. Although killing animals for these purposes aren't strictly necessary, people weigh up their desire for meat against their sympathy at the suffering of animals. Ultimately they choose meat and justify the choice in their own way.

HOWEVER, bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Becausee it's unnecessary. Simple as that. People do it for fun and no other reason and this is why it's unacceptable to most ethically minded people.

The fact that it is a centuries old tradition in this country is irrelevant. Human sacrafice is a tradition we don't practice anymore and rightly so. Some traditions belong in the past.

First of all define "bloodsports" second of all define a "pest"???

one-angry-dwarf

CokaColumbo wrote: »

What makes the killing of animals for food any more necessary than the killing of animals for sport?

I already explained this. I actually said killing for the purposes of food was not necessary. neither is doing it for sport. I personally think that both of these things are unnecessary and cruel but thats beside the point. People eat meat despite the fact that an animal had to suffer for it.
With bloodsports, animals being put in harms way is kind of integral to the whole thing and in some cases the point of it entirely.

spanielman wrote: »

First of all define "bloodsports" second of all define a "pest"???

For someone who seems very opinionated on the subject I'm surprised you don't already know what these words mean?

bloodsports- killing or harming an animal for the purposes of entertainment/sports etc.

pest- Are you really unaware of what I mean, or are you just pretending to not know? Rats, mice, any animal that becomes a nuisance by it's breeding due to carrying disease, damaging businesses etc. The animals that suffer as a result of bloodsports do not usually fall under this heading.

spanielman

So a hare that eats a farmers tree crop recently planted can be classed as a pest and a fox that eat that farmers poultry can also be catergorised as such, and as such will be hunted as a pest and not for entertainment???



You see my point all along is about interpretation had u been reading the thread carefully u would know that!!



there is ALWAYS another reason people hunt other than entertainment!!!!



"Animals that become a nuisance" lol thats a good one there????!

CokaColumbo

one-angry-dwarf wrote: »

I already explained this. I actually said killing for the purposes of food was not necessary. neither is doing it for sport. I personally think that both of these things are unnecessary and cruel but thats beside the point. People eat meat despite the fact that an animal had to suffer for it.
With bloodsports, animals being put in harms way is kind of integral to the whole thing and in some cases the point of it entirely.

If you think that both are equally unnecessary, you shouldn't have distinguished bloodsports from meat eating by stating,

"bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Becausee it's unnecessary."

spanielman

CokaColumbo wrote: »

If you think that both are equally unnecessary, you shouldn't have distinguished bloodsports from meat eating by stating,

"bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Becausee it's unnecessary."

Why are u responding to me, cause my last few messages were to the dwarf, yet u keep responding to me????
I havent said anything about hunting for meat to u???

CokaColumbo

I am not responding to you; I am responding to the dwarf.

Are you some sort of crazy person? I didn't state your name or quote you once in my last post.

spanielman

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I am not responding to you; I am responding to the dwarf.

Are you some sort of crazy person? I didn't state your name or quote you once in my last post.

Ok just says in my email that u have responded, sorry!

one-angry-dwarf

spanielman wrote: »

So a hare that eats a farmers tree crop recently planted can be classed as a pest and a fox that eat that farmers poultry can also be catergorised as such, and as such will be hunted as a pest and not for entertainment???

You see my point all along is about interpretation had u been reading the thread carefully u would know that!!

there is ALWAYS another reason people hunt other than entertainment!!!!

A Hare that eats a farmer's crop may well be a pest, but is that really the reason why hare coursing takes place? And if so, why are the dogs muzzled?

CokaColumbo wrote: »

If you think that both are equally unnecessary, you shouldn't have distinguished bloodsports from meat eating by stating,

"bloodsports are not the same as slaughter for meat. Why? Because it's unnecessary."

True, bad choice of words on my part. I should have made it clearer. I believe that both are unnecessary whereas to many people one is necessary and the other is not. I disagree. The point I was trying to make was that animal suffering is something that they accept does come as a result of eating meat, it's just seen as too big of a sacrafice to make to give it up.
Sorry for any confusion, I should have expressed it better.

sweet-rasmus

They were debating stag hunting on Pat Kenny, RTE Radio 1 this morning, 10 to 10.30am. I guess it'll be up as a pod cast later on. http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_patkenny.xml

Might be of interest to some of you. Pat tried to bring in a comparison with fishing in animal cruelty... Maybe some people will think a little more about it all after hearing it on the radio. Either way, those for the hunting said it was part of an important social life...

spanielman

CokaColumbo wrote: »

As I said before when referring to society's beliefs regarding the moral status of animals: 'empty rhetoric'.



I don't think that there is much point in debating this issue with you because I did clearly state that vegans think it is wrong to unnecessarily kill animals, all animals, but yet you are claiming that we do not care when mice and rats are poisoned.

My view on animal rights at least is that there is no moral or logical distinction whatsoever between the life of a pigeon and the life of dog; between the life of a pig and the life of a cat; between the life of a hare and the life of a rat.

And I don't know why you are convinced that Animal Rights isn't about morality...

Just to let everyone on here know , yesterday Sinn Fein sensibly rescinded the ludicrous "Blood sports" motion by an overwhelming majority, common sense has prevailed!

planetX

But Fine Gael are at it too - saying they'll reinstate the Ward union staghunting.

Slaphead07

planetX wrote: »

But Fine Gael are at it too - saying they'll reinstate the Ward union staghunting.

Well they would wouldn't they? Currently they'd say anything to get a vote but FG are the rich farmers party (as opposed to the 'ordinary' farmer) and so staunch defenders of the "country way of life".