If john has 3 apples and mary has 6...

cormie

Bit of maths required for this

My only mode of transport is my Ford Transit van which currently gets about 430 miles for 80l of diesel. Imagine aswell as all the normal jobs I do requiring a full van load, I do an additional 12,000+ miles a year that would require only the space of a car derived van such as a focus commercial etc.

Choosing a smaller, more fuel efficient drive, with good acceleration for safe overtaking, max speed of say 100MPH which can be reached fast enough and commercial tax, how long would it be before I start "saving" money on the purchase? Obviously I'd need it to be reliable enough to last so many miles and not give any trouble, be expensive to repair etc so the purchase price would need to be good enough to make it worthwhile but then again if I was using my transit, I'd be spending money on service anyway by doing this extra 12,000 miles a year.

There may be a few other factors to consider too, but if anyone has the head space to work this out, it would be interesting to see some calculations and suggestions on whether I should consider another vehicle.

alias no.9

With those figures, you're burning 2233 litres of diesel on the 12k with part or no load. A van capable of 45.5mpg will burn 1200 litres of diesel in the same journey. At 60mpg, you'll burn 910 litres. I don't know whether you can claim back the vat on your diesel do I'll let you work out the rest but I doubt it could be justified on a purely financial basis.

peasant

430 miles = 700 km; 700km per 80l = 11.42l/100km

average fuel consumption of car van driven hard and under load: ~8.0l/100 km

saving: ~ 3.5l/100km


12.000 miles = 19560 km = 20000 km


current diesl price 1.05; expected diesel price next year ~ 1.25; average 1.15

Saving: 20.000/100=200 x 3.5= 700 x 1.15 = 805 Euro per annum

minus tax, minus purchase price, minus maintenance, minus depreciation = not worth it.

netwhizkid

Buy something older and drive it until it literally dies and forget about depreciation, when you buy a vehicle the money is gone and is not tied up in vehicle equity, I really don't ever take depreciation into account, that is something people who think they are worth €20k just because their car has a paper price. It is what the car is worth to me not some garbage paper value.

I am thinking of changing my car soon and I was asked what am I going to do with current car, what will it be worth? My answer that car is worth more to me than I would ever get for it and I am going to keep and garage it as it was my first car (BMW 3 series e36 still with under 93k on the clock) and I have had happy memories in it and wouldn't part with it. I can't get why people are so totally anal with money, there will be money after us all and I would consider myself well off but would probably be equally as happy had I practically nothing.

cormie

Thanks for the replies folks

If I were to get an additional vehicle, it would need to be super reliable and I couldn't drive it till it dies as the 12K miles would consist of a series of important deliveries of 400mile daily average over 30 days in blocks of 2 days through the year (so 15x2 days of 800 miles of driving per 2 days) and I can't have it giving up on me mid way through that.

As well as the fuel economy there was also my comfort and health to consider. 400 miles a day isn't too much to be honest, but it'd be a lot nicer to do in a low volume fast and nippy car than a van and I'd probably save a bit of time and finish the day quicker and not get so stressed not being able to overtake so easily in the transit as I would in a faster car :cool:

So after tax, we're talking say 500 a year, considering maintenance would need to be done more often on the transit if I was using that, it kinda cancels that out of the equation. There's also insurance to consider too, I've got some ridiculous quotes for insuring a 2nd van so it'd probably be a pain and expensive to get insured too.

Doesn't look like it's worth it but interesting to see none the less so thanks again everyone!

cormie

Hmm, this figure may be going up to 20,000 miles as opposed to 12, which would be pretty much on par with the amount I'd be doing requiring the full cargo space. So 20,000 miles requiring car derived van load space and 20,000 requiring full cargo space. Would that turn the "not worth it" to a "worth it" I wonder?

biggus

It looks like your getting 24mpg the transit so it musn't be too new. get a newer more efficient Van instead of a second one.

Factor in that Fuel prices will most likely steadily rise from now on.

cormie

Thanks for the suggestion. Think my van is fine at the moment and it's pretty much what all transit 350 LWB high roofs get I think? Think there's still a lot of life left in it anyway

peasant

cormie wrote: »

Hmm, this figure may be going up to 20,000 miles as opposed to 12, which would be pretty much on par with the amount I'd be doing requiring the full cargo space. So 20,000 miles requiring car derived van load space and 20,000 requiring full cargo space. Would that turn the "not worth it" to a "worth it" I wonder?

peasant wrote: »

430 miles = 700 km; 700km per 80l = 11.42l/100km

average fuel consumption of car van driven hard and under load: ~8.0l/100 km

saving: ~ 3.5l/100km


12.000 miles = 19560 km = 20000 km
20.000 miles = 32600 km


current diesel price 1.05; expected diesel price next year ~ 1.25; average 1.15

Saving: 32600/100=326 x 3.5= 1141 x 1.15 = 1312.15 Euro per annum

minus tax, minus purchase price, minus maintenance, minus depreciation = not worth it mebbe baby.

You fail at maths

cormie

My head is wrecked at the mo :P

So it's now a maybe? Hmmm..

peasant

You've now got a little over 100 Euro a month to cover the extra tax, extra insurance extra maintenance and depreciation ...which still doesn't quite cover all the cost.

But there are other unquantifiables like at how much do you value the extra speed, comfort and maneuverability of the smaller van, for example.

That's for you to decide.

manta356

Will the smaller van hold all the apples though

stevie.enright

May I suggest that if you are to go down the road of buying a second van that aside from a Focus you may also consider a Corolla 1.4 diesel van. You would imagine you would be stuck to the road with a 1.4 diesel, but anything but. Really pokey and miserly on fuel also. As for reliability which you mention is of big importance to you, well its a toyota...

You may pay a bit of a premium for the toyota over the same year focus but I think you should see this money back in terms of cost of ownership and resale value.

cormie

Thanks for the replies. Good point about the comfort etc peasant. On second thought, maybe a focus/golf would be a bit too tight for comfort on the load space and maybe something like a mondeo van would be best. Not sure if this one would pass as a van or if they even make mondeo vans? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2002-FORD-MONDEO-LX-WHITE-EXPOLICE-DOG-UNIT-VAN_W0QQitemZ330359519093QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item4ceaf63775&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Not sure how a 1.9petrol would compare too? Should I be looking strictly at diesel? The 20,000 miles will be mostly 100-120kmph driving.

cormie

Just having a browse of what's out there in estate vans and I've found the following. However, I'm unsure if they are actual "VANS" and if revenue will class them as vans here for commercial tax, insurance etc? They have no back seats etc, but is that enough?

Which would be a good one to go for considering my usage would anyone know?

Van 1: 2002 02 Ford Focus 1800cc

Van 2: 2002 02 Ford Focus 1800cc

Van 3: VAUXHALL ASTRA (ESTATE) VAN 1.7L DIESEL

Van 4: BMW 320 1.9 petrol

Would these all fall into the €50 VRT charge aswell or are they too small for that?

I'd always be leaning towards a Ford as I've a very good mechanic who specialises in Ford (boards user ford jedi) and have a very good part supplier up North too.

Any feedback appreciated

R.O.R

No Car based vans fall in to the €50 VRT category - they are all 13.3% VRT - even the Astravan which is not a converted car.

I only clicked on the first van and the price seems well over what I'd expect to pick up a Car Van for of that age, and that's before you factor in the VRT (admittedly, not going to be a massive amount at that age).

As a comparison we sold a 00 Astravan earlier this year for €1,500 - it only had 27,000 miles on at that stage.

Only newer car van we've had through this year was an Almera - went for €5,150 in March with 55,000km on.

Would something like this do?
http://www.carnext.ie/public/en_IE_CarNext/index.jsp;jsessionid=9EC91105EC0CEEBD370F299405ECC48F.node4?car_id=1700006&page=cotw

They will probably start to get a load of Focus vans back shortly.

cormie

Thanks for that ROR What is 13.3% based on? The price I paid or revenues book price of the car van?

When you say "they" will probably get a load of focus vans back soon, is that you, as in, will your company be selling them? How much do you reckon for? What year/mileage etc?

I think I'd definitely need an estate sized van anyway and a ford would be preferable. Would a 1.8 petrol eat fuel compared to a diesel though I wonder?

R.O.R

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for that ROR What is 13.3% based on? The price I paid or revenues book price of the car van?

When you say "they" will probably get a load of focus vans back soon, is that you, as in, will your company be selling them? How much do you reckon for? What year/mileage etc?

I think I'd definitely need an estate sized van anyway and a ford would be preferable. Would a 1.8 petrol eat fuel compared to a diesel though I wonder?

13.3% VRT would be based on revenue's book price of the car van. Not sure if you can get on-line quotes.

"they" are a company I used to work for. I know there is a customer of theirs running about 30 Ford Focus vans who recently tendered for replacement vehicles. I expect that will be completed soon - but all those are the equivalent of the 3dr hatch Focus so may not be big enough for your needs.

The only car van that is estate like is the Astravan. The Ford option would be to import a Focus Diesel Estate from the UK, but then pay around €1,500 to get it converted to a commercial vehicle (not really worth it IMHO).

The 1.8 petrol would rape you for fuel compared to the 1.6 or 1.8 diesel models.

cormie

Thanks for the input, hmm, well the Astra linked above is at an ok price and is already a van from manufacture it seems. How does one go about finding revenues price on it? Like the Buy it now price is €2000, but if revenue have it valued at €5K it'd be a bit of a pain with VRT!

Focus estate would be ideal but diesel and full van conversion seem rare

R.O.R

www.ros.ie does give you the option to get figures on car based vans - just checked.

The Astravan looks in very good condition. V reg is from Aug 1999 to Feb 2000. I guessed at November 1999 and the Envoy model and the VRT came to........
€125:eek:

Can't imagine there would be a massive difference between spec's and different months. Might be a bit more if it's 00.

Check around and see if there is anything this side of the water around the same age. (EDIT - http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/974671)

I'm sure fordjedi could service an Astravan for you - I don't think the 1.7d is the most complex of engines.

cormie

Thanks again for the info, so 125 for VRT isn't bad at all! That one on donedeal looks pretty good and not a bad price at all either. Tried to ring but doesn't seem to connect to the number for some reason. I'm sure ford jedi would have no problem with an Astra, he told me before he does anything. Think he just knows transits/fords inside out but would probably have no problem with anything else. May seriously consider the donedeal one if it's still around.

cormie

The number for the astra on donedeal isn't connecting at all just checked it out with mywheels.ie anyway and it's been imported and has had 7 owners in Ireland already :eek:

Opel Astra
1.7
See Images
Year: 2000
Style: Van
Number of Seats: 2
Engine: 1.7L
Fuel Type: Diesel
Colour: White
Motor Tax Class: Commercial goods vehicle

History Status

™


Caution



Written Off [?] No
Scrapped [?] No
Previously Taxi [?] No
Previously Hackney [?] No
Imported [?] Yes
Number of Owners (In Ireland): 7
Changed Engine # [?] No
Changed Colour No
Tax Expiry Date: Aug 2009