Barefoot running.

cards

Does anyone do it or has anyone any experience of this product http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/

thanks.

biko

I saw some clips on youtube, they look very cool.

Running Bing

Magnus wrote: »

I saw some clips on youtube, they look very cool.

Really?:eek:

cards

found this today. I is getting me a pair, pronto!

http://planetultramarathon.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/barefoot-running-the-soul-of-a-runner/

RoyMcC

cards wrote: »

found this today. I is getting me a pair, pronto!

http://planetultramarathon.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/barefoot-running-the-soul-of-a-runner/

Do us a product review then. Apart from all the spelling mistakes that article might have been commissioned by Vibram. However my brother - who is a very experienced runner, swears by his Nike Free and does virtually all of his running in them. I'd be interested to hear how other people might have got on with these minimalist shoes.

plodder

At work we had a vistor from the US, who was wearing them. He was complaining that the rubber soles were sticking to the pavement on O'Connell Street. I didn't like to tell him, exactly what he was (probably) sticking to. :pac:

Nialloooo

HI All,
i do all my running on roads and distances from 10k to marathon, i im just reading a book called "Born To Run" and the barefoot running has really sparked my mind off thinking about trying it.. i guess im woundering it anyone knows if the five finger is good ffor road running and long distance running or are they more for trial running etc? are they available in ireland or is it a web job?
Thanks

P.S.
any one into running should read the book above its a must for the xmas list

cards

Hi Niall. I've meant to do a product review for some time so here goes. I think they are truly awesome. Any runner needs to experience running in these imho! It was like taking two boulders off my feet when I switched. The downsides are they are fairly expensive, and I used to go running on forestry trails sometimes with biggish stones and that is a no.no with these as they are pretty close to the sensations of running barefoot. The positive being a sharp stone or pebble wouldn't cut your feet while wearing these but you'd certainly feel it whereas barefoot , you would actually get cut.
The trails I'm refering to are pretty rough, coilte type foresty trails. On regular roads they are fine but when you hit a rough patch , you have to watch for sharp stones. I also find that my feet seem more sensitive when I start a run but after a while I don't seem to notice sensations as much.Your feet also toughen up, the more you run. When running I find you can run a lot more , gracefully?>thats open to debate! but thats how it feels. You can kick your heels up...running shoes weigh a lot and there absence is glorious. Also the sensation of striking the ground, feels more grounding, I feel more connected to the run. In awnser to your questions, I bought them over the web and they are fine for long distance running as I've done several 10k in these and there is also several barefoot marathoneers on youtube so long distances should be ok , once feet toughen up.

When buying them I bought the classic's
http://www.vibramfivefingers.it/eng/classic.aspx because I read that the straps on some of the other models cut feet. Also its maybe best to stay on the slightly small side as I would go half size under my normal shoe size if buying again.
I will definately take a read of the book when I get a chance and whilst passing on recomendations, I have to just mention my diet. I'm not a serious athlete but if I was , I would certainly strongly consider or explore raw foodism. I've been on this diet since last december and its truly amazing and I can really see how it could boost someones performance a lot. Best of luck with the fivefingers if you decide to get them.

nerraw1111

Just another fad, along with 'raw foodism.'

Barefoot runners mentality is: 'Any injuries prior to barefoot were caused by the shoe.'

'Any improvements afterwards is down to the shoe.'

cards

Its hard to prove or disprove anyones views on the running shoes but I certainly don't see raw foodism as a fad. This documentary presents a compelling case on the benefits of switching diets.
http://www.rawfor30days.com/index4.html

tunney

I don't particular care for raw foodism or the gloves for feet, but runnign barefoot (on grass) has massive benefits, just start of with little amounts and build up.

Nialloooo

Hi Tunney,
how would you rcommend to start? give up on the road or mix it up maybe run barefoot at the end of a road run? looking at doing a tri so might be a chance to get in training on my weeker two to cut back on my running (its my strong point).

Best of look with IM ill keep an eye on your blog, esp cause your a roses/ian brown fan ;-)

Nialloooo

Hi cards thanks for the review, i have seen that doc before,it does seem to have merits and id love to hear how you find it from day to day with work ,family ect? PM me ,i might try it but i manage a hotel so i cant be seen to put my chefs out of work by not eating there food, what would the costomrs think lol.

As for barefoot running, im sure its not a fad as we have done it for millions of years, my one consern is that we didnt have roads , im not sure feet were desinged to run on hard road, more to run on soft ground and the odd stone, so is it wish to train and run on roads for marathons etc with a five fingers etc or should they be keep for cross country events?

i know a guy who finished in the top 35 overall in DMC this year and top 3 in cross country in leinster in his age group 18 hours before the DMC, he runs barefoot cross country and with runners on the road..

MY HEAD HURTS THINKING ABOUT IT:(

cards

Everyone is different so what suits one may not suit another but this guy certainly proves its possible... http://runningbarefoot.org/
"

Beyond the limitations of my professional training and experience, I have been testing Running Barefoot (and walking barefoot) for over 50 years, through over 70 marathons, and hundreds of shorter races, and one 50K trail ultra-marathon. During the 10-year period when I kept a running log, I logged over 10,000 miles, barefoot. During my entire life, now over 50 years, I have certainly run and/or walked barefoot tens of thousands of miles, in the real world."

cards

I was going to pm you about the raw food niallo but will just post here in case it interests anyone. I would love a professional athlethe or somebody that trains intensively to see can they make improvements on their performance. I bet they can because I certainly did and I can't train hard enough because of a back injury.

After nearly 11 months, the diet is just becoming more and more of who I am. I used to not like spending so much on organic food initially, 150-200 a week. Now I see that there aren't many other things more important that you can spend your money on. Some choose to spend their money on different things but feeding yourself in the most optimal manner should surely be our higest priority. Its often far down the line at 70+(and a lot younger) when people are developing all kind of health problems and unable to look after themselves that raw foodist are still going strong. There are plenty youtubes of older raw foodists that prove this theory. Also when I see athletes not making use of this diet, I just have to think they are missing a major trick. I watched a clip last night about some aussie long distance runner that was pretty good but talked about going for pizza the night before his race or something. Thats plain ridiculous imo, because its not just whats in our stomachs, its whats been feeding our cells for many months. In my own case, I was a little chubby and used to run regularly but never shifted it. One of my training routines was to run for a half hour on a treadmill at a decent clip.After the first few months , my body toned up, all the chubbyness disappeared which had been there years,and I went from doing a half hour and being pooped, to doing an hour and being ready for another one!I also noticed when I would do a hard training session that my body would be like a nail. Its like my muscles were are to tighten up a huge amount more. Everyone is an individual and this diet may not suit all but I find it hard to believe professional athlethes aren't making more use of it, in a mainstrem kind of way. I also love the food. Your taste buds change and I never tire of the food.Two apples never taste the same. I hope this doesn't sound like a hard sell. Thats not my intention and I'm sure there are people out there with stories about B12 deficiencies etc.I have yet to have my blood tested. I am not sure I will. There are plenty of cases of the terrible things the standard american diet causes. Ps. I didn't mention that being a raw foodist also makes being a vegan easy which is also important to me.
Anyway, just some random thoughts!

""

When you're a Pro Bowl tight end, it's difficult to change your routine. Difficult, and maybe crazy. If you're in the midst of a Hall of Fame career, why change anything? As Tony Gonzalez discovered, sometimes change comes to you.

Sitting at home one day in May 2007, Gonzalez suddenly lost all feeling in his face and felt a terrible pain in the back of his head. He initially thought he was having a stroke, but hospital tests confirmed he had Bell's Palsy instead. Many doctors prescribe a diet consisting entirely of raw fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds -- no animal products or processed foods -- as a way to improve digestion and combat the condition. A few months later, Gonzalez got another health scare, when doctors warned him of a low white blood cell count, raising the possibility he had leukemia. In the end, a mix-up with another patient's blood had caused that diagnosis. Still, with two scares in a span of a few months, Gonzalez became more attuned to his health and to what he put into his body.

Not long afterward, Gonzalez was on a cross-country flight when he struck up a conversation with the man next to him in first class. When lunchtime arrived, Gonzalez's seatmate ordered the salad with shrimp, hold the shrimp. Come dessert time, the man turned down the flight attendant's offer of milk to go with his cookies.

"So I asked him, 'Are you a vegetarian?'" Gonzalez recounted. "He said he was a vegan. Not eating meat I could understand, but I asked him why he wouldn't even drink the milk. He said that we're the only animals on Earth who drink milk after being babies."
Tony Gonzalez is proving that even football players can compete at a high level on a strict vegan diet.
A few years earlier, or maybe even a few months earlier, Gonzalez might have nodded politely and ended the conversation right there. But that year, he'd started to seriously ponder his long-term health and the dietary choices he was making. The health scares had opened his eyes. But more than that, Gonzalez wondered what life would be like after football. He wanted to stay in shape and live well after his playing days were done.

When the man recommended "The China Study" as a must read, Gonzalez devoured it. The 2005 book by Cornell professor and nutrition researcher T. Colin Campbell claims people who eat mostly plants contract fewer deadly diseases than those who eat mostly animals. The book got its name from diet studies and blood samples drawn from 6,500 men and women in China. Gonzalez has since met with Campbell and now plans to write his own book about dietary choices from the perspective of a 246-pound football star.

For Gonzalez, now 32, getting from Point A to Point B took a great deal of thought and self-doubt. Conventional wisdom held that eating steak and drinking a gallon of milk a day would make you big and strong and prepare you for the rigors of NFL life. Gonzalez followed that path, pounding steaks and milk, as well as pizza, hot dogs and burgers -- whatever it took to pack on the pounds. He especially loved macaroni and cheese, with an emphasis on cheese, piled as high as possible. You couldn't argue with the results. In his first 10 seasons with the Kansas City Chiefs, Gonzalez had made the Pro Bowl eight times, establishing himself as the best tight end in the league.

When he switched to a meatless diet, he wondered whether the move would backfire on him. At first, it looked like it might. In the first few weeks of his new regimen, he lost 10 pounds. His strength quickly dropped, and Gonzalez found himself unable to lift the heavy weights he'd hoisted with ease in the past. Teammates started telling him he looked skinny. "You're going to get your butt kicked" was another common refrain.

"It was a trial by error," he said. "I had to educate myself on how to do it the right way."

After reading up on vegan-friendly recipes, Gonzalez found the right balance. Though he had more than enough money to buy any foods he wanted, Gonzalez still wasn't thrilled with the prospect of spending through the nose on groceries. Instead, his grocery bills stayed about the same, but the check at restaurants got slashed with no $50 porterhouse steaks on his plate. Gonzalez says he now focuses on produce when constructing his meals. He loads up on berries, bananas and mangoes, fresh vegetables and milk alternatives like rice milk or hemp milk, then blends them into what he calls "power smoothies."

He gained back most of his lost weight, settling in around 246 pounds. His strength quickly returned. When the season started, he was shocked at how good he felt. In the fourth quarters of games, he found himself sprinting past tired defenders. He became more alert during team meetings. On the day after a game, he'd skip into the gym, while teammates looked sore, beat up and worn out.

"People were still making fun of me, because I think they wanted to make themselves feel better," Gonzalez explained. "I'd be ordering salad, potatoes, veggies. I think they felt guilty. Unless you've been in a cave, you know what's healthy and what's not healthy. But most of them still keep eating what they've been eating, because they think that's the only way to get enough protein and compete at a high level."

As the season progressed, Gonzalez's numbers picked up. Playing in his 11th season, Gonzalez made 99 catches (the second-highest total of his career), racking up 1,172 yards (the third-highest total of his career). In the previous three seasons, he'd dealt with an arthritic foot that got so bad he could barely walk the day after a game. The foot condition had forced him to give up basketball, a sport Gonzalez loved, having played varsity ball alongside the Sacramento Kings' Shareef Abdur-Rahim at Cal. Coincidence or not, the foot condition improved dramatically over the course of an offseason, to the point that he started hitting the hardwood again. Playing basketball in turn gave Gonzalez another good way to boost his training, which he says helped improve his agility.

More surprising than his improved health, he says, was the reaction of some of his friends, especially ex-players.

D'Marco Farr was a bruising NFL defensive lineman for seven seasons before injuries forced him into early retirement. Seven years after leaving the league, Farr told Gonzalez he still didn't feel 100 percent, carrying extra weight and still suffering from aches and pains. When Gonzalez told him about the changes he'd felt since going vegan, Farr jumped on board. He has since spread the word to other ex-players, including Lincoln Kennedy, a three-time Pro Bowler who retired at well more than 300 pounds.

Gonzalez has become something of a spokesman for healthy eating. When he retires, he wants to travel around the league speaking about the value of healthier diets. He's excited about the prospect of his first book on the subject. Gonzalez wants to reach out to younger players, too. He recently spoke to a group of 300 college football prospects at USC, where he counseled the group not to fall into the trap of scarfing down fatty foods just because that's the norm for aspiring players trying to pack on weight.

"In this league, you think you're invincible, that you'll last forever," he said. "Then you look at some of the numbers, that the average football player dies young. I'm sure there are other reasons, but eating unhealthy foods and carrying around all that extra weight can't help.

"I realized football's not going to last forever. To me this isn't a diet. It's a complete lifestyle change."

http://thegardendiet.com/jesus/

tunney

Nialloooo wrote: »

Hi Tunney,
how would you rcommend to start? give up on the road or mix it up maybe run barefoot at the end of a road run? looking at doing a tri so might be a chance to get in training on my weeker two to cut back on my running (its my strong point).

Best of look with IM ill keep an eye on your blog, esp cause your a roses/ian brown fan ;-)

Back on topic.

What I did to start was run regularly in racers, started with short runs and the reduction in cushioning forced me to correct my gait. A few times a week at the end of a run I'd kick off the runners and run 200m away from my shoes on grass and then back to them. Building up slowly. Very slowly as given we've spent a lifetime being protected from our own weight and being allowed to run badly you can get injured if you try and over do it. My technique went from heel striker to mid/fore front over an extended period and I'm enjoying running alot more - its alot less effort.

In short - buy a lightweight trainer/heavy racer and run a little in that. Thrown in a few hundred metres a week on grass and work up from there. After a while you'll be running with better technique - you've no choice it hurts otherwise.

Can't beat iano!

baldykav

I've tried them on but never purchased. A friend I train with wears them all the time, particularly doing strength and core work and thinks they're great. He hasn't done a lot of running in them yet but one of his employee's has and swears by them for economy, form and strength.

You can get them in zest fitness bray I think. Don't know where else sells them. Definitely try them before you buy, fit is very individual.

patfol

Nialloooo wrote: »

HI All,
i do all my running on roads and distances from 10k to marathon, i im just reading a book called "Born To Run" and the barefoot running has really sparked my mind off thinking about trying it.. i guess im woundering it anyone knows if the five finger is good ffor road running and long distance running or are they more for trial running etc? are they available in ireland or is it a web job?
Thanks

P.S.
any one into running should read the book above its a must for the xmas list

Any more info on that book "Born to run". Handy xmas present! Publishers? Author?

scottreynolds

patfol wrote: »

Any more info on that book "Born to run". Handy xmas present! Publishers? Author?

Great book I really enjoyed it. Its certainly food for thought.

Review
http://health.usnews.com/blogs/on-fitness/2009/04/28/born-to-run-christopher-mcdougall-says-humans-evolved-to-run-like-the-tarahumara.html

Amazon UK
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Run-ultra-runners-Ultra-running-Super-athlete/dp/1861978235

Blueskye

scottreynolds wrote: »

Great book I really enjoyed it. Its certainly food for thought.

+1 I really enjoyed it too, great read, although at times I felt he was getting a bit into advertising products, chia seeds and the like, but it's a great story. My sister actually met the white horse dude who organised the race.

Nialloooo

its published by Profile books and wrtoe by christopher mcdougall, i got my copy on amazon it 19€ hard back including delivery and delivered with in a week

GreeBo

Would you not be very worried that it would acerbate any existing foot issues?
I Cant imagine they provide much/any support?

I know the arguement that before shoes we did everything barefoot, but that was quite some time ago now and also Im sure there were plenty of people back then who couldnt "operate" successfully due to foot issues.

BeepBeep67

Nialloooo wrote: »

its published by Profile books and wrtoe by christopher mcdougall, i got my copy on amazon it 19€ hard back including delivery and delivered with in a week

In these recessionary times, might be worth reopening this book sharing thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055527658&highlight=book

theduke1

i ran bare footed for years doing cross country,was a conbination of not been able to afford spikes and not wanting to destroy my road shoes on the grass in winter. great feeling running in ur bare feet once the soles are up to it.
zola bud- she ran for years bare foot

Blueskye

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

In these recessionary times, might be worth reopening this book sharing thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055527658&highlight=book

Did this work last time it was tried? Sounds like a great idea although I do get a bit attached to my books.

Macanri

Just thinking about this. What if you ran on some smashed glass or something like that. That would be in the back of my mind if I was running barefoot.

Running Bing

Running barefoot is the ideal but its completely impractical for most.

The Vibram fivefingers may be good but the injuries prevented from the running shoes would be more than made up for by the mental stress of constantly being pointed and laughed at...not to mention the very real threat of being beaten up in Dublin City.:P

Seriously though, I do think modern running shoes are pretty horrible things. Why is the heel so fecking big on them? I was convinced for months that the correct way to run was to heel strike and at times actually made an active effort to do it.:eek:Shocking stuff....unfortunately its what we've become used to so you have to gradually move away from it.

tyler71

After reading 'Born to Run' I was thinking about the FiveFingers as well but was also put off by the look of them. I'm also a big fan of Chi Running, since I went to a course with Catherine McKiernan (who says she did a lot of barefoot running when she was younger) and the two tie in very well. See the link here http://chirunning.com/blogs/danny/ for the 'Chi running' take on the issue - basically you can get most of the benefits of barefoot running by using racing flats or minimal support shoes - I'm currently training in racing flats at the moment and although it takes a bit of 'weaning' to switch over I can't see myself going back. After all, why would I splash out cash every six to nine months on the latest super shoe when you can run on a no support shoe until it wears out?

connie_c

GreeBo wrote: »

Would you not be very worried that it would acerbate any existing foot issues?
I Cant imagine they provide much/any support?

I know the arguement that before shoes we did everything barefoot, but that was quite some time ago now and also Im sure there were plenty of people back then who couldnt "operate" successfully due to foot issues.

The book suggests that footwear changed greatly in the 1970's when nike arrived with big soles that allowed us to heal strike. Running shoes before that were very light. The book suggests that running injuries have increased greatly since modern running shoes arrived and they reason that the cushioning allows us to run incorrectly which causes injury.

I dont know what the truth is but when I told my sister about it who is studying physiotherapy in college she made the point that way more people run on roads nowadays than in years previous to the 1970's so of course injuries have increased.

Having said all that I think I'm going to get a set and try them out but only for trail running at first.

GreeBo

connie_c wrote: »

The book suggests that footwear changed greatly in the 1970's when nike arrived with big soles that allowed us to heal strike. Running shoes before that were very light.

Good point!

I always try to run on the grass verge when I go out, but its pretty much setup to twist an ankle in lots of places

dinneenp

Big article here from the Dail Mail

RoyMcC

For those interested here's a link to a paper by Brooks on the whole subject of barefoot running, the pros and cons. Surprisingly objective I find.
http://www.brooksrunning.com/media/File/0900_barefoot_running_whitepage.pdf

MrCreosote

Good update on the sports science website about barefoot running over the last few days:

www.sportsscientists.com

A bit about Chi running and Pose training as well.