Ref Watch

wixfjord

After a terrible season all round from the Magners League refs last season (including and especially our very own Clancy and Fitzgibbon) please use this thread to rate the refs this year. Just watching the Embra Blues game and Clancy has made two terrible decisions, one for the cardiff try and one for an Embra penalty.

chupacabra

wixfjord wrote: »

After a terrible season all round from the Magners League refs last season (including and especially our very own Clancy and Fitzgibbon) please use this thread to rate the refs this year. Just watching the Embra Blues game and Clancy has made two terrible decisions, one for the cardiff try and one for an Embra penalty.

I think Fitzgibbons was reffing Blues v Edin. and yeah some bad decisions there but the WORST was that blues try that was clearly in touch, but thats just a sign of the lack of communication between the officials, the linesman should be shot for that tbh. As for the munster game, another shocking linesman call when Manning's up and under bounced into touch but was deemed to have gone out on the full. Looks like its going to be a loooooong season :rolleyes:

wixfjord

chupacabra wrote: »

I think Fitzgibbons was reffing Blues v Edin. and yeah some bad decisions there but the WORST was that blues try that was clearly in touch, but thats just a sign of the lack of communication between the officials, the linesman should be shot for that tbh. As for the munster game, another shocking linesman call when Manning's up and under bounced into touch but was deemed to have gone out on the full. Looks like its going to be a loooooong season :rolleyes:

Sorry yeah fitzgibbon my mistake. After Clancys performance last week I cant get him out of my head! Who is reffing the Munster game?

gavkm27

Can't believe he did'nt go to the TMO for that Blues try

Guy:Incognito

The irony of refs being sponsored by specsavers.

big dan

wixfjord wrote: »

Sorry yeah fitzgibbon my mistake. After Clancys performance last week I cant get him out of my head! Who is reffing the Munster game?

James Jones from Wales. Think he's doing ok.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Thought Fitzgibbons did well tonight (Blues vs Edinburgh). Must have given at least 6 penalties for holding on in the 2nd half - all looked like the right decision to me. I always like it when a ref gets strict on that - should happen more IMO.

Hennybug

Knox in the Connacht - Ospreys game was dreadful, it was like he could only ref one side at a time and made some really crap calls :mad:

Crash

wixfjord wrote: »

Sorry yeah fitzgibbon my mistake. After Clancys performance last week I cant get him out of my head! Who is reffing the Munster game?

Clancy's a bit of a joke anyhow - last week, as I said previously, was one of the worst refereeing displays i've ever seen. Dreading the interpro's thanks to him.

anonymous_joe

wixfjord wrote: »

Sorry yeah fitzgibbon my mistake. After Clancys performance last week I cant get him out of my head! Who is reffing the Munster game?

I hate Clancy. That is all.

thebossanova

What is this ref bashing about!? This isn't the soccer forum! Ref's all go out to do there best at every game, and part of the rugby ethos is to respect the referee no matter what the decision. They're human as well, and do make mistakes!

Clancy and every high grade referee has done their time and are chosen as the best referee's to ref high grade matches. It's a shame that the rise of professional rugby has led to the degradation of the rugby ethos in some respects, and the extreme critique of referee's is fair game nowadays. Or maybe it's just that the expansion of the game has brought in fan's whos favoured sport allows the critique of ref's...???

anonymous_joe

thebossanova wrote: »

What is this ref bashing about!? This isn't the soccer forum! Ref's all go out to do there best at every game, and part of the rugby ethos is to respect the referee no matter what the decision. They're human as well, and do make mistakes!

Clancy and every high grade referee has done their time and are chosen as the best referee's to ref high grade matches. It's a shame that the rise of professional rugby has led to the degradation of the rugby ethos in some respects, and the extreme critique of referee's is fair game nowadays. Or maybe it's just that the expansion of the game has brought in fan's whos favoured sport allows the critique of ref's...???

Or maybe it's that some of us here love rugby and are sick of seeing certain refs time and time again ruin games.

Be it the first Lions Test when the entire competition was effected by one ref's take on the scrum, or a friendly game between Leinster and London Irish where the ref seems determined to be the star of the show.

OldJay

wixfjord wrote: »

After a terrible season all round from the Magners League refs last season (including and especially our very own Clancy and Fitzgibbon) please use this thread to rate the refs this year. Just watching the Embra Blues game and Clancy has made two terrible decisions, one for the cardiff try and one for an Embra penalty.

Firstly that was Peter Fitzgibbon reffing. Not George Clancy.

The try was the touch judge/asst ref call and an incorrect one. Not Peter's call as the touch judge was better placed.

Which penalty are you referring to?

Peter had an excellent game.

You should try reffing. It really is as easy as it looks on the TV. :rolleyes:

wixfjord

Justind wrote: »

Firstly that was Peter Fitzgibbon reffing. Not George Clancy.

The try was the touch judge/asst ref call and an incorrect one. Not Peter's call as the touch judge was better placed.

Which penalty are you referring to?

Peter had an excellent game.

You should try reffing. It really is as easy as it looks on the TV. :rolleyes:

Yes, I corrected that mistake.

It was Fitzgibbons fault that he didnt go to the tmo, if there was any doubt, and there was because the camera angle in real time was from behind the goal, almost fitzgibbons position and I could see that his foot was in touch.

The penalty im referring to is the one edinburgh missed before half time, which was given for pulling down in the lineout, even though there was no Cardiff player near the reciever.

The "you should try reffing" argument is always dragged up in these instances. I dont want to be, nor probably ccould I be at this stage a referee, but I pay money to see rugby, and a ref making a wrong decision, not implementing the rules, or being too fussy ruins the game. These refs are paid and semi pro (some pro?), if I didnt do my job id be told where to go, the same should go for them.

I believe the ref in the Connacht Spreys game was poor aswell.

OldJay

wixfjord wrote: »

Yes, I corrected that mistake.

It was Fitzgibbons fault that he didnt go to the tmo, if there was any doubt, and there was because the camera angle in real time was from behind the goal, almost fitzgibbons position and I could see that his foot was in touch

If you have an official on the spot with an unrestricted view, you are not going to be in doubt and you are not going to call a TMO into the proceedings. The official on the line made the wrong call. Not the referee.

And no we have no full-time "pro" referees. They are all part-time.

This is a pathetic thread. "Aw ref-er-ee" threads usually are.

wixfjord

Justind wrote: »

If you have an official on the spot with an unrestricted view, you are not going to be in doubt and you are not going to call a TMO into the proceedings. The official on the line made the wrong call. Not the referee.

And no we have no full-time "pro" referees. They are all part-time.

This is a pathetic thread. "Aw ref-er-ee" threads usually are.

I dont agree with you.

Anyway, why are you defending referees?

I started this thread because there was no doubt that many were dire in the ML last season and I wanted consensus on performance this season. Its called Ref Watch, which doesnt necessarily mean negative. If you dont like it dont come in and patronise.

OldJay

wixfjord wrote: »

I dont agree with you

I'm just correcting you on something you have called incorrectly.

wixfjord wrote: »

Anyway, why are you defending referees?

Is that taboo? lol

chupacabra

Justind wrote: »

This is a pathetic thread. "Aw ref-er-ee" threads usually are.

So we should just never question the judgement of a referee and turn a blind eye? Now more than ever its important to discuss the referee in the modern game seeing as there are so many rule changes happening and a refs decision in rugby can be the difference between winning and losing. Look at Connacht last season, how many games have potentially gone a begging because of dire refereeing? Too many to count, and i was at 1 or 2 home games last season so i saw first hand how utterly disgraceful some of the lower ranked refs are in the ML. You cant just sweep these things under the carpet.

crisco10

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Or maybe it's that some of us here love rugby and are sick of seeing certain refs time and time again ruin games.

Be it the first Lions Test when the entire competition was effected by one ref's take on the scrum, or a friendly game between Leinster and London Irish where the ref seems determined to be the star of the show.

that was ridiculous. espeically the double yellow for Horgan and Richards (I think). IN a friendly with 10 minutes to go, no need for reducing both teams to 14. Certainly for something as dubious as a bit of handbags. Of all the decisions that night, that one really irked me. It wasn't that he didn't see it or it happened quickly. It was just a decision that lacked any common sense and ability to manage a game in a reasonable manner.

OldJay

chupacabra wrote: »

So we should just never question the judgement of a referee and turn a blind eye?

Never said that.
A dedicated thread on spotting alleged flaws in ref performance (and incorrectly so, more often than not, from what I've read) has an air of the witch-hunt about it.
Perhaps 'pathetic' was too strong a word. Trite, on reflection, would be more apt.

anonymous_joe

Justind wrote: »

Never said that.
A dedicated thread on spotting alleged flaws in ref performance (and incorrectly so, more often than not, from what I've read) has an air of the witch-hunt about it.
Perhaps 'pathetic' was too strong a word. Trite, on reflection, would be more apt.

To approach this argument from another angle;

I know there are a few refs who post here regularly, and I've always been fascinated by their insights into reffing.

Rugby as a game requires very good reffing. As such the refs are treated with a lot of respect.

The Magners League has always had a reputation for poor refereeing. Even so, the likes of Lewis, Owens, Rolland would all come from ML nations. So why's the general standard so low?

The Leinster LIrish game was reffed by ML refs. A bad job was done. A good ref can really make a game superb, or he can drag it into the mire. Rugby needs its refs, and they do a fantastic job, but when a ref is damaging hte game we do need to be able to say that.

pappyodaniel

The standard of refereeing is very low in the Celtic League, and I'm embarrassed by the performances of the Irish ones at that. I've never been a fan of Thomond's Peter Fitzgibbon. He seems to thrive on making the controversial calls. I can't believe people on this thread are defending his call on the Blues first try last night. I've seen so many referees go against the advice of their touch judges and go to the TMO to get the right decision. It's the most frustrating thing in the world as a player, when the referee isn't up to the job.

OldJay

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I can't believe people on this thread are defending his call on the Blues first try last night. I've seen so many referees go against the advice of their touch judges and go to the TMO to get the right decision. It's the most frustrating thing in the world as a player, when the referee isn't up to the job.

The touch judge last night was right on the spot with a perfect view of the try attempt.
If you're going to distrust what they call and ignore what they say then whats the point in the touch official in the first place? They are assistant referees.
It was the touchie's call but he called it incorrectly. Officials have howlers. Its a given. No matter the level they run. Even the list of well knowns in a previous post who all started their journey on the touchlines of previous refs such as Owen Doyle or Dave McHugh.

We have more referees ascending the pecking order this season. Johnny Lacey (to ERC) and Dudley Philips (to ML) to name two. Peter Fitzgibbon is our new addition to the international panel and will do well.

pappyodaniel

Justind wrote: »

The touch judge last night was right on the spot with a perfect view of the try attempt.
If you're going to distrust what they call and ignore what they say then whats the point in the touch official in the first place? They are assistant referees.
It was the touchie's call but he called it incorrectly. Officials have howlers. Its a given. No matter the level they run. Even the list of well knowns in a previous post who all started their journey on the touchlines of previous refs such as Owen Doyle or Dave McHugh.

We have more referees ascending the pecking order this season. Johnny Lacey (to ERC) and Dudley Philips (to ML) to name two. Peter Fitzgibbon is our new addition to the international panel and will do well.

I thought rugby referees would/should be born-control-freaks,so Fitzgibbons decision not to to go to the TMO was baffling. What your touch judge tells you is akin to a priest telling you God exists,it's nice and all that FitzG trusts his assistant but whats d harm in double-checking, is he afraid of insulting the touch judge. Or maybe he's out of his depth and used to reffing games in Bruff or Kanturk on a wet&windy Sunday without the benfit of a TMO?
He's a long LONG way off the high standards set by Rolland and Lewis. Yesterday was just another example adding to the amount of cock-ups I have seen this man commit, be it from the whistle or with flag.

Crash

Who was the referee tonight for Leinster? was actually very impressed by him, wasn't afraid to make hard decisions.

anonymous_joe

Crash wrote: »

Who was the referee tonight for Leinster? was actually very impressed by him, wasn't afraid to make hard decisions.

Me too.

Except he should have sent that prop off! :pac:

copacetic

Yep, he was ok apart from bottling the biggest decision of the game. When someone throws a headbutt right in front of you they have to see red.

danthefan

Crash wrote: »

Who was the referee tonight for Leinster? was actually very impressed by him, wasn't afraid to make hard decisions.

He was afraid to make a hard decision. In fact it was an easy decision and he bottled it. Yellow for a deliberate headbutt on a prone player unable to defend himself, insane.

OldJay

pappyodaniel wrote: »

He's a long LONG way off the high standards set by Rolland and Lewis

Do you remember how they were when they both started their climb? I do.
Even with that in mind, what are your views on Alan Lewis' performance in the Bledisloe Cup played at Hong Kong last season, for example?

Damned if they and damned if they don't. If refs went to the TMO for even simple decisions such as friday night's, people would be moaning (as they have done already) that they're holding the game up constantly. Now one doesn't and its all his fault . . .

pappyodaniel

Justind wrote: »

Do you remember how they were when they both started their climb? I do.
Even with that in mind, what are your views on Alan Lewis' performance in the Bledisloe Cup played at Hong Kong last season, for example?

Damned if they and damned if they don't. If refs went to the TMO for even simple decisions such as friday night's, people would be moaning (as they have done already) that they're holding the game up constantly. Now one doesn't and its all his fault . . .

I remember quite well how they were, you're right about that AND they did get a lot of criticism back then, without the benefit of a TMO. Fitzgibbon is a show pony in my opinion, he's consistently making controversial calls that defy logic. You're probably a referee yourself so you would be watching his performance a little closer than the rest of us. I myself watch his games (along with G Clancy's) with interest because I know the guys,but i haven't seen any improvement in the last couple of years.

I guarantee no-one would of complained if he went to the TMO for said instance. I don't think anyone down here in Munster who would complain about those close to the touchline trys after the heartbreak in Lens with John O'Neill's disallowed try and Bobo's for Biarritz in 2006 HC Final.