Immersion Melt-Down

niceonetom

Hey folks,

[disclaimer] I know nothing about this stuff [/disclaimer]

So there's no hot water and the switches in the hotpress are doing nothing. I shut off the lecky and investigate and this is what I find inside the timer:



Mmm melted plastic. Not good.

So I was thinking that seeing as the timer is just a slightly clever switch I should be able to put a regular switch in its place until I can get a new timer (and someone who knows what they're doing with it).

I found a switch unit with a 13A fuse in it in the tool box, but looks like it want 4 wires and I've only got three (see above). I'm assuming that if I take the L-in and L-out from the timer and put them in the same terminals on the switch I'm off to a good start. Right? But what about the Neutral?



The timer only has a single N terminal whereas the fused switch has an N-in and an N-out...

So, I ask you, am I going to be without hot water all weekend? Or can you help me? What do I do???

Please, I'm already a bit smelly...

Thanks
Tom

davelerave

try to get a sparkie if possible

trad

You may have a problem with you immersion which caused the meltdown. You might need a sparks and a plumber.

niceonetom

davelerave wrote: »

try to get a sparkie if possible

I intend to, but seeing as it's Friday evening I doubt it's going to be easy or immediate.

I really don't think that a stopgap solution like installing a normal switch in place of the timer so we can have some hot water is excessive.

Any help?

danjo

If you take my advice you will not mess about with this. Your immersion draws a high current and is not suitable for hook up solution.
Nobody who understands the issues would advise you on this type of patch.
Seriously call an electrician it may save you calling the fire brigade. :eek:

2011

The first thing that you have to think about is why did the original timer burn out. The reason for this is that immersions (normally rated at 3000 watts) draw a relitively large current.
Large current = heat = possible fire hazzard
Just think of an electric arc welder, a large current is used to make metal so hot that it melts.
I would have to agree with the other posters here, get a sparks.

I found a switch unit with a 13A fuse in it in the tool box

What you have described here is a spur outlet. This is not suitable a 20A DP switch is what should be used at a minimum.

intbn

hows she cuttin, im qualified about 6 months meself and i'd strongly warn against going near it.
it'd defo serve ye well to get a sparks with a good reputation in to look at it because the sparks that was in before or wired your gaf in the first place obviously didnt know what they where at if, the trip switch in your fuseboard didnt trip before the timer felt the brunt of the fault current.
they could of even put it on a ring circuit, fitted an under-rated timer, under-rated connectors, wired it up wrong, put it on an over-rated trip switch, left it with a loose connection(s) etc etc which happens when cowboys get involved.
if you're thinkin of tryin to fix it yourself, you could likely leave it in a more dangerous way than it was before, maybe what you need is a cold shower lol!
i'm an electrician an i'd have a look at it but i'm probably not anywhere near ye.
you could likely need a new immersion heater fitted and the timer is optional, otherwise it should be sorted in under an hour if you get an electrician out, they'll prob just charge a flat call out rate, but make sure to get one in that has experience in domestic fault finding.
also, if you have home contents insurance on your house then get in the best electrician you can find regardless of the cost because your insurance company will pay for it.
good luck mossy

brightspark

From looking at the photo of the timer it looks like a loose connection, or a bad contact on the timer, caused the connector to melt. (I doubt if was caused by the element as the other cable looks relatively undamaged, and I have seen many examples of burning cables and connectors due to loose terminations in the 20yrs since I qualified as an electrician)


However as you say you "know nothing about this stuff" I cannot advise you to even attempt to work on it. The cables will be damaged and need replacing as well as the timer. As others have already said find a qualified electrician, for an experienced electrician it's an easy job and should be done quickly.

because the sparks that was in before or wired your gaf in the first place obviously didnt know what they where at if, the trip switch in your fuseboard didnt trip before the timer felt the brunt of the fault current

A "trip switch" will not detect a loose connection (or under-rated switch) as no overcurrent would be involved, if anything the current would be slightly less than normal.

Bad connections are the cause of most electrical fires in the home!

intbn

brightspark wrote: »

A "trip switch" will not detect a loose connection (or under-rated switch) as no overcurrent would be involved, if anything the current would be slightly less than normal.

did i say it would "brightspark"? they could of fitted an under-rated timer or connectors(less than 20A) is what i said, which can cause an "electrical fire" :rolleyes:

Loose connections are the cause of most electrical fires in the home

davelerave

The 'enclosure' and smoke alarms are the only protection afaik for contact problems in domestic(assuming quality parts and tight connections).

niceonetom

brightspark wrote: »

From looking at the photo of the timer it looks like a loose connection, or a bad contact on the timer, caused the connector to melt.

That's what I thought.

There is a switch in the fuse box (not sure what rating) and a 20 amp fuse/switch unit wired into the circuit beside the timer, and the switch appears to be rated up to 3500W so I'm not immediately jumping on the "who did you have in here before me, COWBOYS! FECKIN' COWBOYS!!!" wagon.

BUT, from the (unsurprising) recommendations of brightspark and everyone else on this thread, I have admitted defeat and started looking in earnest for a pro. So far no one is answering their phone.

Thanks folks

2011

There is a switch in the fuse box (not sure what rating)

A 20 amp MCB type B would be normal.

20 amp fuse/switch unit wired into the circuit

From your picture it looks like a standard immersion switch has been installed and a rating of 20 amps would be correct.

timer, and the switch appears to be rated up to 3500W so I'm not immediately jumping on the "who did you have in here before me, COWBOYS! FECKIN' COWBOYS!!!" wagon.

I would agree with you, there is nothing that you have described that would suggest that the work was not carried out 100% correctly. My guess is that the timeclock simply failed. Sometimes equipment does that even when installed 100% correctly.

So far no one is answering their phone.

What area do you live in niceonetom? I am sure someone here would sort you out if you are local to them.

My suggestion is to replace the old time clock with a new time clock that will fit on the existing box, such as an "Apt" like this:



You can even buy them on a Saturday. Then contact an electrician and tell him that you have all of the required materials. This will make the job very attractive to an electrician and this should therefore be reflected in the price. It would imagine the work would take about 5 minutes.

The 'enclosure' and smoke alarms are the only protection afaik for contact problems in domestic(assuming quality parts and tight connections).

Well said

A "trip switch" will not detect a loose connection (or under-rated switch) as no overcurrent would be involved, if anything the current would be slightly less than normal.

+ 1

niceonetom

2011 wrote: »

What area do you live in niceonetom? I am sure someone here would sort you out if you are local to them.

My suggestion is to replace the old time clock with a new time clock that will fit on the existing box, such as an "Apt" like this:

That's the one that just burnt out!! :P

I have an electrician coming later to (hopefully) sort it out, but if I can go out and get a get a clock for him to install I will - I doubt he'll happen to have one, he mostly does alarms and stuff but he's a proper electrician.

I'm in D15. Is there anywhere around here or towards Dublin city centre that I could pop out and get an timer?

thanks 2011

niceonetom

Situation resolved.

Sparks fitted a new timer in about 5 mins. Grand. Now a shower .

2011

Good!

Don't forget to do behind the ears!!