Mercury in energy saving lighbulbs??

meglome

It came up in the conspiracy theory's forum (I know, I know) that these new energy saving lightbulbs contain mercury. Now this is Run to da hills saying this so I automatically assume it's rubbish as it usually is. Still I thought if anyone knew the facts if would be someone in here. Anyone?

Shiny

Tis true. It is essential to their operation.

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/January/07010803.asp

These bulbs are only a stopgap measure until LED lighting becomes
more affordable.

meglome

Ah well he was bound to say something true eventually.

Shiny

meglome wrote: »

Ah well he was bound to say something true eventually.

Don't tell anyone!

Bee

meglome wrote: »

It came up in the conspiracy theory's forum (I know, I know) that these new energy saving lightbulbs contain mercury. Now this is Run to da hills saying this so I automatically assume it's rubbish as it usually is. Still I thought if anyone knew the facts if would be someone in here. Anyone?

Actually it is much worse than that, if you examine the base of a dangerous CFL you will find many discrete electronic components, the manufacture and distribution of such heavy units as cfls must surely outweigh any gain in consumption.

Oh by the way Mercury is so dangerous to the enviorment which unfortunatley as you know that is where the CFLs will end up as they will be buried in land fills

For the enviornmental movement to promote them is insanity

From a US/Canada government website, just a snip of how dangerous these mercury toxic bombs are

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/lighting/cfls/downloads/CFL_Cleanup_and_Disposal.pdf

"If your ENERGY STAR qualified CFL product burns out before it should, look at the CFL base to find the manufacturer’s name. Visit the manufacturer’s web site to find the customer service contact information to inquire about a refund or replacement. Manufacturers producing ENERGY STAR qualified CFLs are required to offer at least a two-year limited warranty (covering manufacturer defects) for CFLs used at home. In the future, save your receipts to document the date of purchase.
How should I clean up a broken fluorescent bulb?

Because CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal guidelines:
1. Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room
•
Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.
•
Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.
•
Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.
2. Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces
•
Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.
•
Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass pieces and powder.
•
Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.
•
Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces."

rayh

Do I understand that Straight and Compact Fluorescents are covered under WEEE Directive as set out below and therefore any sales outlet is obliged to provide a return facility?

DIRECTIVE 2002/96/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 27 January 2003 on waste electrical and electronic equipment (WEEE)

ANNEX IA
Categories of electrical and electronic equipment covered by this Directive
1. Large household appliances
2. Small household appliances
3. IT and telecommunications equipment
4. Consumer equipment
5. Lighting equipment
6. Electrical and electronic tools (with the exception of large-scale stationary industrial tools)
7. Toys, leisure and sports equipment
8. Medical devices (with the exception of all implanted and infected products)
9. Monitoring and control instruments
10. Automatic dispensers

ANNEX IB
List of products which shall be taken into account for the purpose of this Directive and which fall under the categories of Annex IA
5. Lighting equipment
• Luminaires for fluorescent lamps with the exception of luminaires in households
• Straight fluorescent lamps
• Compact fluorescent lamps
• High intensity discharge lamps, including pressure sodium lamps and metal halide lamps
• Low pressure sodium lamps
• Other lighting or equipment for the purpose of spreading or controlling light with the exception of filament bulbs

Judgement Day

Bee - I am in total agreement with you on this. The new bulbs while great on energy saving and reducing ESB bills are an environmental nightmare to dispose of. I am as Green as they come and changed over to the new bulbs as soon as they became available but what do I do when they need replacing? Only one has died so far and it remains stored in a cupboard, another was smashed by a ball in the childrens bedroom - you can best imagine the panic I created while dealing with resulting mess - evacuating kids, opening windows and cleaning up without using a vacuum cleaner! I have just read on a government website that retailers supplying CFL bulbs are obliged to take old ones back when you buy a new one and that I will try tomorrow and report back.

djpbarry

Bee wrote: »

From a US/Canada government website, just a snip of how dangerous these mercury toxic bombs are

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/lighting/cfls/downloads/CFL_Cleanup_and_Disposal.pdf

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't seem to be able to find any quantification of the danger posed by "these mercury toxic bombs" (do hyperbole much?) anywhere in that PDF? Seems like a bog-standard list of precautions to me.

There's already a thread on the supposed dangers posed by CFL's that has so far failed to produce any solid evidence that anyone's wellbeing is threatened by a light-bulb. I'm guessing this thread will be no different.

rayh

Judgement Day wrote: »

Bee - I have just read on a government website that retailers supplying CFL bulbs are obliged to take old ones back when you buy a new one and that I will try tomorrow and report back.

See WEEE Directive

samson09

djpbarry wrote: »

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't seem to be able to find any quantification of the danger posed by "these mercury toxic bombs" (do hyperbole much?) anywhere in that PDF? Seems like a bog-standard list of precautions to me.

There's already a thread on the supposed dangers posed by CFL's that has so far failed to produce any solid evidence that anyone's wellbeing is threatened by a light-bulb. I'm guessing this thread will be no different.

Why are you modding the green issues forum?

djpbarry

samson09 wrote: »

Why are you modding the green issues forum?

If you've nothing of value to contribute, don't bother posting.

samson09

djpbarry wrote: »

If you've nothing of value to contribute, don't bother posting.

Sorry, its just seems that anyone who has "unconventional" views/opinions gets a hard time in here. It's not the place to discuss this though, apologies.

I agree with the other posters here who think these new light bulbs are a bad idea. There's plenty of information out there to suggest this. They save energy alright, but at what cost? They wreck the environment and are a hazard to human health. Mercury is toxic and even people who suffer from epilepsy have been warned to avoid using these bulbs as they may trigger seizures.

"Breaking a CFL can cause serious health risks. They contain mercury. This is especially hazardous for small children and pregnant women. They also warn that these light bulbs should never be used over carpeted surfaces because in the event of breakage, the mercury could contaminate the carpet necessitating completely removing portions of the carpet to eliminate the mercury hazards".

"In a recently conducted study, researchers broke 65 CFLs. They then tested the air quality and clean-up methods. Their findings were that in many cases immediately after the break (and sometimes even after clean-up) the levels of mercury were as much as 100 times higher than federal guidelines for chronic exposure.

Mercury is a naturally occurring metal that can accumulate in the body. If this happens, serious damage to the central nervous system can occur.

The study concluded that if a CFL breaks, children and pets should immediately be removed from the room and the room should be completely ventilated. Vacuums should never be used to clean up a broken fluorescent light bulb. Alternately, stiff paper and tape should be utilized to clean up the small pieces.

CFLs can contain as much as 30 milligrams of mercury. A recent study has estimated that two to four tons of mercury is released into the air each year from these light bulbs"


http://www.naturalnews.com/022886.html

Bee

rayh wrote: »

See WEEE Directive

God bless your innonence! A magic wave of the directive solves all problems!

Sorry if I disillusion you but the bulb will either end up in landfill here or more likeley be transported back at a huge envioronmental cost back to their country of origin e.g. in the majority of cases to China.

The physical weight as well as the toxic content being transported by shipping results in a huge co2 impact as well as increased mercury pollution

Here something for you to read http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23694819/

"All CFLs contain mercury, a neurotoxin that can cause kidney and brain damage. The amount is tiny — about 5 milligrams, or barely enough to cover the tip of a pen — but that is enough to contaminate up to 6,000 gallons of water beyond safe drinking levels, extrapolated from Stanford University research on mercury. Even the latest lamps promoted as “low-mercury” can contaminate more than 1,000 gallons of water beyond safe levels.
"

And just look at the electronics from a cfl

rayh

Bee wrote: »

God bless your innonence! A magic wave of the directive solves all problems!

Sorry if I disillusion you but the bulb will either end up in landfill here or more likeley be transported back at a huge envioronmental cost back to their country of origin e.g. in the majority of cases to China.

Sorry, but there are two issues here;
1. The law of the land and in this case the WEEE Directive
2. The non implementation of this directive which you seem to support, while on the otherhand you highlighting its consequences.

Maybe we both need some blessing of our innocence (NOT INNONENCE)

djpbarry

samson09 wrote: »

Sorry, its just seems that anyone who has "unconventional" views/opinions gets a hard time in here.

I take it that by “gets a hard time” you mean “has their opinions challenged”? This is a discussion forum – opinions are going to be countered with differing opinions.

samson09 wrote: »

They wreck the environment and are a hazard to human health.

Could you quantify this wrecking of the environment in some way?

samson09 wrote: »

Mercury is toxic...

...at a sufficiently high concentration. As is lead, chromium, cadmium, lithium compounds, etc. Should we ban the use of all of these elements/substances too?

samson09 wrote: »

They also warn that these light bulbs should never be used over carpeted surfaces...

Who are “they”?

samson09 wrote: »

"In a recently conducted study...

Conducted by whom?

samson09 wrote: »

CFLs can contain as much as 30 milligrams of mercury.

Not sure about that – most CFL’s contain between 1 and 5 mg mercury.

And if you’re going to advocate the use of conventional incandescent bulbs over CFL’s, then mercury emissions produced by the burning of coal in power plants must also be considered.

djpbarry

Bee wrote: »

Sorry if I disillusion you but the bulb will either end up in landfill here or more likeley be transported back at a huge envioronmental cost back to their country of origin e.g. in the majority of cases to China.

All you have to do now is (a) provide some evidence for that theory and (b) demonstrate that the same would not be true of incandescent bulbs.

Bee wrote: »

And just look at the electronics from a cfl

Em, ok. What does that contribute to the discussion exactly?

SLUSK

Mercury is very dangerous for you, I remember that thermometers with mercury were banned because of the potential dangers but I guess somehow mercury in light bulbs somehow is not dangerous, even though it is one of the most toxic substances known to man!

Mercury is so dangerous that the EU parlimanent backs a ban on Mercury exports, altough these mercury ligth bulbs will be exempt from this ban.
http://www.euractiv.com/en/environment/parliament-backs-mercury-ban/article-153405

Bee

djpbarry wrote: »

All you have to do now is (a) provide some evidence for that theory and (b) demonstrate that the same would not be true of incandescent bulbs.

As I said the majority of electrical waste ends up as landfill in Ireland have a read here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/environment/waste-management-and-recycling/waste_from_electric_and_electronic_equipment

On the Government website it states

"What happens to waste from electric and electronic equipment produced in Ireland?
Landfill sites
Over 72% of Ireland's municipal waste ends up in landfill sites around the country and this is where the majority of waste from electric and electronic equipment produced in this country is sent. However, space at landfill sites is becoming scarce and concerns have been raised about disposing of waste from electric and electronic equipment in landfill sites, given some of the harmful substances that waste from electric and electronic equipment is known to contain. "

The site mentions harmful substances e.g. Mercury

Em, ok. What does that contribute to the discussion exactly?

The other toxic components of CFLs are contained in the various parts in the base unit and these are sent away for recycling I don’t have the government link but I will post it for you when I have time to find it. This responsible company below is one of the largest recyclers in Ireland and it sends electrical waste out of the country like all of the rst that does not go to landfill

GREYHOUND RECYCLING & RECOVERY

Website : www.greyhoundrecycling.com
Description of Business
Greyhound Recycling & Recovery, founded in 1997, is Ireland’s most experienced waste recovery operator. The company has links with international markets and exports dry waste and recyclables to Britain, Germany, India and China. Over the last five years the company has invested €25 million establishing Ireland’s largest Materials Recovery Facility at its headquarters in Dublin.

The point I am trying to make is that the Mercury component of CFLs is highly toxic (especially to young children)

That the manufacture and extraction of Mercury is seriously bad for the environment, that exposing your home to Mercury vapours is very harmful to health, that the manufacture and transport of the much heavier than an incandescent bulb CFLS contributes way more c02 to the atmosphere than the light and very basic and simply manufactured incandescent and that the disposal of CFLs will pollute and leach from landfill sites a highly toxic substance Mercury nad other rare earth elements contained in the components

As well as that the poor light output, the lower electricity consumed is more than offset by the cost to the environment in c02, toxic mercury and other rare elements in the PCBS of the cfl base unit. The transport and manufacture of CFL's contribute more co2 than an old incandescent ever could as they are mainly manufacured in China nad transported by boat, as well as being sent back their for re-cycling.

The incandescent light bulbs also end up in landfill but in saying that their components are much less harmful to the environment and not transported out of the country, by the way they are easy to recyle being simply made from Glass,Aluminium,tungsten and Nitrogen/Argon gas (inert gases)

djpbarry

Bee wrote: »

Over 72% of Ireland's municipal waste ends up in landfill sites around the country and this is where the majority of waste from electric and electronic equipment produced in this country is sent.

I find this incredibly hard to believe. According to weeeireland.ie, approximately 11.1kg per head of population of EEE was put onto the EU market in 2007. In the same year, an average of 9 kg per inhabitant was collected for recycling in Ireland. Based on these figures, and the fact that retailers are obliged to collect waste from consumers free of charge, it seems incredibly unlikely to me that the majority of EEE is presently going to landfill in this country.

EDIT: Where exactly did you get that statistic from anyway? I'm not seeing it on the page you linked to.

Bee wrote: »

Greyhound Recycling & Recovery, founded in 1997, is Ireland’s most experienced waste recovery operator. The company has links with international markets and exports dry waste and recyclables to Britain, Germany, India and China.

According to the EPA’s 2007 National Waste Report, approximately 51,000 tonnes of WEEE was collected in 2007, of which approximately 41,000 was treated in Ireland and the remaining 11,000 tonnes was exported to other EU countries. As for CFL’s in particular, there are companies within Ireland that are licensed to recycle them, such as the Irish Lamp Recycling Company, for example.

Bee wrote: »

The point I am trying to make is that the Mercury component of CFLs is highly toxic (especially to young children)

And I’m trying to make the point that unless your kids are sleeping on a heap of broken fluorescent lights, I don’t think there’s a major issue here.

Bee wrote: »

...that exposing your home to Mercury vapours is very harmful to health...

Could you quantify that statement in some way? How many CFL’s do I need to break in my home before my health is endangered?

Bee wrote: »

... that the manufacture and transport of the much heavier than an incandescent bulb CFLS contributes way more c02 to the atmosphere than the light and very basic and simply manufactured incandescent...

I’m going to have to ask you to back that up with some figures. You're saying that the emissions associated with the transport of the heavier CFL outweigh the savings obtained through lower energy consumption and longer life?

Bee wrote: »

...and that the disposal of CFLs will pollute and leach from landfill sites a highly toxic substance Mercury nad other rare earth elements contained in the components

Which is precisely why they should be disposed of in a responsible manner. Just like batteries. And refrigerators. And TV’s. And DVD players. And so on and so forth. Virtually all electrical and electronic devices contain potentially toxic substances – should the computer you’re using be banned for this reason?

Capt'n Midnight

The amount of mercury is very low

I know because one of my CFL's went pink, a sign of no mercury

if the bulbs are recycled then it's not an issue as the mercury is re-used.

probably NiCAD batteries were worse for toxic metals




and if you haven't got your lead-acid battery in your car changed to a NiMH or Lithium battery then you've got far more toxic metal and wasted CO2 dragging it's weight around


If you are really worried about breaking bulb then go to a garden centre and buy some flowers of sulphur ( a naturally occurring element so fairly green ) so you can sprinkle some on the broken bulb. Mercury reacts with it to lock it away.