The question of entitlement

who what when

Ive noticed in a few threads how various posters feel that social welfare is a god given right only to be criticised by fellow posters.
The arguement is generally along the lines of 'get a job you useless bum and stop stealling my taxes'!

Now my question is do people think unemployed, disabled, retired etc people should have an entitlement to social welfare?
Or should they (as in many countries) fend for themselves, doing whatever it takes to keep their head above water!

This is my opinion. As an employed-tax paying citzen i believe that if i was made unemployed i would be entitled to social welfare.
The reason is this: I am a taxpayer!
In other words i support the state during my working life so they should support me when i find myself out of work!

Discuss

Riskymove

of course people paying PRSI etc should be entitled to certain supports when needed

I think you'll find most of the views you are talking about are aimed at some pre-conceived idea of a "sponger" who never works

optocynic

who what when wrote: »

Ive noticed in a few threads how various posters feel that social welfare is a god given right only to be criticised by fellow posters.
The arguement is generally along the lines of 'get a job you useless bum and stop stealling my taxes'!

Now my question is do people think unemployed, disabled, retired etc people should have an entitlement to social welfare?
Or should they (as in many countries) fend for themselves, doing whatever it takes to keep their head above water!

This is my opinion. As an employed-tax paying citzen i believe that if i was made unemployed i would be entitled to social welfare.
The reason is this: I am a taxpayer!
In other words i support the state during my working life so they should support me when i find myself out of work!

Discuss

You work now.. and are contributing.. so yes... HELL YES.. you are entitled... (I hate that word)... actually, you have earned the right to claim the welfare!

Disabled people.. of course... I hate that people accuse welfare reform supporters of being monsterous fascists.. the same goes for retired people too...

But work dodgers... HELL NO!

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

I think you'll find most of the views you are talking about are aimed at some pre-conceived idea of a "sponger" who never works

But work dodgers... HELL NO!

case closed M'Lud

optocynic

Riskymove wrote: »

case closed M'Lud

Are you claiming work dodgers (and welfare fraudesters too) don't exist?
Please tell me you are not that niave...

RoyalMarine

i have strong feeling's about all this.
some of which might upset some people here, but thats their problem not mine.

anyone who has given a real effort to work and be self sufficient but due to change's in their circumstances for what ever reason be it sickness, disability, or loss of job (NOT QUITTING BECAUSE YOU ARE SICK OF YOUR BOSS ETC) have the right to claim assistance from the government.

people who do not bother to look for work, who lie to the community welfare officer's and the social welfare inspector's about job applications and so on, do NOT deserve to claim assistance from the government.
if these people want assitance aka medical card's, rent suppliment and job seeker's allowance, then make them work for it. the government should find work for these people to do while they claim.
those who are deemed disabled or medically unfit for physical labour can do the less streneous work needed to be done in this country.

if these people dont want to work, then let them go hungry. eventually, they will accept it.

Tipp Man

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

i have strong feeling's about all this.
some of which might upset some people here, but thats their problem not mine.

anyone who has given a real effort to work and be self sufficient but due to change's in their circumstances for what ever reason be it sickness, disability, or loss of job (NOT QUITTING BECAUSE YOU ARE SICK OF YOUR BOSS ETC) have the right to claim assistance from the government.

people who do not bother to look for work, who lie to the community welfare officer's and the social welfare inspector's about job applications and so on, do NOT deserve to claim assistance from the government.
if these people want assitance aka medical card's, rent suppliment and job seeker's allowance, then make them work for it. the government should find work for these people to do while they claim.
those who are deemed disabled or medically unfit for physical labour can do the less streneous work needed to be done in this country.

if these people dont want to work, then let them go hungry. eventually, they will accept it.

This is what i wrote in another topic, along the same lines as what you think i believe??

Tipp Man wrote: »

Without a shadow of doubt workfare needs to be introduced asap, the idea of handing people money for nothing is simply ridiculous.

A simple idea is, you get 6 months welfare after losing your job without doing anything to allow people time to get new job etc, after 6 months you then have to work say 20 hours a week (say the welfare of EUR 200 divided by minimum wage of what 8.90 gives 22hrs) and this should be continued as long as you claim welfare. Its pretty simple and applies to everyone who wants social welfare, and the key is that nobody is exempt, you don't do the hours you don't get paid the next week. And i don't mean jobs just for cleaning the street etc, all kinds of work that need to be done by the government or on their behalf

I can't understand how this couldn't work, hell we could have the cleanest, tidiest and best set up country in the world

who what when

Ok i kind of guessed the thread might go in this direction.
So people here are against people who have no intention of ever getting a job? In other words youre not happy with the current welfare system and how the benefits are distributed.
Fair enough so what actions would you take if you were minister for finance? And is the problem really that simple? Can you just put people into two brackets of those who will work and those who wont?

My proposal would be along the following lines;

First of all each person has to be assessed in terms of what contrbution they have made to society and put into 1 of five groups;

Group 1- recently unemployed, it happens to the best of people and they should be supported and encouraged back to the workplace.
They should be given 80% of their previous net wage or the equivalant of the minimum wage, whichever is greater. This will last for eight months after which the person will drop down to group 2.

Group 2- This group is for the unemployed who want to contribute to society but cannot get a job. Generally would be low skilled workers.
This group would be expected to contribute to the upkeep of their local area. Maintaining public areas, cleaning streets etc. Basically any form of low skilled labour that would benefit local councils and communities. There are several example of these types of scemes throughout the world.
This group would be expected to 'work' the same hours as any cival servant and recieve 75 percent of the minimum wage for their efforts.

Group 3- Long term unemployed. Anyone unwilling to partake in group 2 are obviously of little use to society but they are people all the same and shouldnt be abandoned. This group would receive no monetary handout.
However they will be provided with BASIC, healthy, nutritious food three times a day, similar too soup kitchens. They would be given free accomodation in large purpose built hostel type buildings where people would be expected to share a dorm with many dozens of other people.
Washing facilites would obviously also be provided. These facilities would be run for the most part by people in group 2

who what when

Oops didnt see your post Tipp Man.
Maybe my post should have read 'see above'!

Riskymove

optocynic wrote: »

Are you claiming work dodgers (and welfare fraudesters too) don't exist?
Please tell me you are not that niave...

where do i say that?

you simply proved my point (and btw your post agreed with what I said)