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Overheal

Teamfortress2 forums are on fire like a Californian wilderness. I think I just clocked 15 new threads per minute at one point.

What happened? Valve decided in their infinite wisdom - 3 months later without cause or warning - to declare anyone who idled in the brief hiatus where you could not earn items through Achievements (back in May) as Filthy Rotten Cheating Scum and taken away their illegally begotten swag.

Its not about the swag though. Its the fact that Valve is calling me a filthy cheating scumbag. Its about their blogpost saying "Oh hey, dont worry guys, it was only 5% of you" as if to say, "Hey ****tards, we're a big gay company and we could care less about you"

Except, if my numbers are right - whats 5% of 4 Million Owners of TF2?

Its leaving a bad taste in my mouth, and I plan on posting Valve a letter explaining my disgust, and a demand of a refund for $19.95 and to have the game removed from my account. 10 Valve employees just made a statement for their whole company that "We treat our Customers as potential Criminals."

http://teamfortress.com - travel to the forums if you dare

JD1763

Meh the whole thing is overblown and takes the focus away from the main issue which is the annoyance of a broken drop system that continuously drops useless dupes. How anyone in Valve thought introducing a MMO drop system into a team based fps was a good idea is beyond me.

There are what, about 20 weapons (approx.) in the game, remainder of items are hats so dupes are nearly constant especially if you earned your unlocks through the achievement system. Before Sep 1st the hat drop rate was something like 0.45% (per Drunken F00ls idler stats), think its increased to 3.5% now, but most drops are still weapons.

At the end of the day this broken random system destroyed the game during the first few days of the Spy/Sniper update (hence the re-intro of achievement unlocks) and we've been stuck with it ever since.

I idled for about 2 weeks, nothing to show for it and I missed out on a halo (oh god no give me a halo please!!) and instead of acknowledging the dissatisfaction of the player base Valve have gone the punishment route. I'll still keep playing and using idle servers when I'm not or out having a life (until Valve ban those too!).

TL,DR: Hats make no difference - fix the game!

Kinetic^

God damn it Overheal, stop cheating!

grizzly

I'm not a big TF2 player, dip in every now a not again. Is it possible to just turn off this system and play a "core rules" game? Or is it that everyone is playing under this system and other servers are empty?

Menengroth™

and now you dont get a special hat cheater scum!! =D

only 4million people play tf2? and this is the game they devote most of their time to, i cba

Antar Bolaeisk

Do you really care that much? You choose to take advantage of an exploit which you knew at the time was not in the spirit of the game (even though the spirit of the game had gone through the meat grinder at this point) and now Valve have retroactively fixed this. In my opinion both parties are wrong, Valve should just have introduced the from-now-on bit and not removed everyone's items (but given the non-idlers the halo anyways), you took a chance and now it hasn't paid off, just accept your loss. It is only a game at the end of the day.

0ubliette

I heard about this retarded FREE HAT **** in TF2, lol'd quietly to myself, and havent played the game since. Seriously, playing a game to get ****ing hats?

Maximilian

Sorry I missed all of this and don't feel like reading all the TF2 forum threads.

Can someone summarise this for the uninformed/lazy.

Kinetic^

Maximilian wrote: »

Sorry I missed all of this and don't feel like reading all the TF2 forum threads.

Can someone summarise this for the uninformed/lazy.

If you cheat, you lose hats.

Overheal

valve introduced a drop system, got rid of the old system, some users figured out idling worked, and that it wasnt against the EULA or VAC at the Time, and then valve brought back the old system and we all went home. 3 months later theyre calling us cheaters because they dicked around with their game and pissed us off in the first place. So basically we're being dicked because we dicked them for dicking us. you dig?

Vegeta

wtf is idling, just logging on but not actually playing?

Maximilian

Kinetic^ wrote: »

If you cheat, you lose hats.

Overheal wrote: »

valve introduced a drop system, got rid of the old system, some users figured out idling worked, and that it wasnt against the EULA or VAC at the Time, and then valve brought back the old system and we all went home. 3 months later theyre calling us cheaters because they dicked around with their game and pissed us off in the first place. So basically we're being dicked because we dicked them for dicking us. you dig?

With apologies to Team America

So Idlers are dicks! Reckless, arrogant, stupid dicks. And the TF2 players are pussies. And Valve is an asshole. Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get ****ed by dicks. But dicks also **** assholes: assholes that just want to **** on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can **** an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they **** too much or **** when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of **** that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us **** this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in ****!

Pyr0

What is idling exactly ?

Overheal

Theres a long summary to this issue which ill post on my lunch break

Vegeta

Overheal wrote: »

Theres a long summary to this issue which ill post on my lunch break

16k posts for you w00t

ProjectColossus

The upside to all this is of course that I now have a sweet new halo hat. No other hats though

Maybe I misread something somewhere, but the impression I got was that this removal of items is only temporary? CBA looking it up though.

Ciaran500

Someone going to answer? What does idling entail?

Overheal

Pyr0 wrote: »

What is idling exactly ?

Idling is connecting to a server specifically to go AFK. You could do this through the game, or, an outside program which used <1% of the system resources that TF2 had, but was effectively you playing TF2.

This was done in May, when Valve announced they were getting rid of Achievement Based Weapon unlocks (ie. Unlock the new Flamethrower when you get 15 of the Pyro Achievements, etc.) And were instead going to opt for a completely random Weapon drop system. They did this to try and even the field between hardcore and beginner players.

But all it did, in the long run, was piss a lot of people off: because it actually made it harder for a beginner to get the weapons - I got all the Pyro weapons in a weekend, through regular gameplay, just by playing the class, completing achievements, and having fun. In addition, the Achievements written for the pyro were Goals that actually helped many people learn how to play the class. For example, one Achievement was earn 50 kills with the Shotgun after you ignited an enemy - pretty much teaching players the advantages of lighting someone up and finishing them off at range, rather than the much harder job of killing them completely at close range - which resulted in much a kamikazi in my early days.

So skip ahead, and this Learn-Reward style of thinking has been revoked in place of Win or Lose: Get a Prize mentality. And to get the items through the random system, could take anywhere from a day, to a year, depending on time played and the nature of Random Drops.

So for the Sniper and Spy unlocks (Which Valve hyped the high **** out of) would be theoretically unavailable for days, or weeks, or may never be unlocked for a specific player. Many of us disagreed with this policy and protested it accordingly.

Within a few days someone figured out what triggered the chances for Weapon Drops: Time Played. Idling very quickly followed.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/2529/ - May 21 Update

http://kotaku.com/5266514/meet-the-players-unhappy-with-the-new-tf2-update

8 days later, Valve reversed the decision and then later discussed it in interviews as a mistake:

http://kotaku.com/5319975/valve-rethinking-team-fortress-2-item-drops

http://store.steampowered.com/news/2545/ - May 29 Update

Now 3 months later - after admitting their mistake, restoring balance to the Force and everyone going home, they have decided to dig the issue back up for apparently no reason.

Now this may be due to players continuing to Idle. I dont know. I dont really care. However, I do care that my account was "Flagged" because I idled before they issued the Fix. They've called me a part of the Rebel Alliance and a Traitor. And the nail in the coffin of course,

"If you're interested, only about 4.5% of the players in TF2's community will be affected by this cleansing process."

I mean hey, we're only 4.5%. We're a number. We don't matter. Heres another number though: 200,000 players, that this likely affects, and labels as cheaters. I'm being optimistic of course, and have assumed TF2 has sold 4-5 million copies to date. Which frankly, it probably has.

And thats the story to date. Tom?

SeantheMan

It was people who went onto a server,and basically it was them sat in spectator.

Due to the fact that drops and unlocks became random, the longer spent on a server the more chance you had of gaining an unlock. And as you can't play 24/7 there were idling servers and programs to let people stay on servers and get unlocks.

I don't really care tbh, or call it cheating either

However...as I play TF2 all the time...and never used any of these said programmes or servers.....myself and everyone else were 'rewarded' :P with a new hat...which comes in the form of a 'halo' which is called "cheaters lament"...and i think the s called cheaters/idlers had all their unlocks removed :P ..not sure bout that though


Hahahah...cheaters cheaters never win :P...you just be jealous of our new Halos

Overheal

Its not about a Hat.

Its about being called a Cheater. We didnt cheat. We followed the rules. It neither breached EULA or VAC.

Its about Valve saying we were suddenly Wrong when previously they admitted They were wrong.

Its about Valve's idea that thousands of their players and fans are second class citizens.

ProjectColossus

Terms like "second class citizens" is a little meoldramatic.

I should say though, I agree, they shouldn't have removed the items. Especially with no warning, and a previously broken drop system.

Nor do I think the lable "cheater" is quite fair, as you didn't 'cheat', employ game breaking hacks or give yourself a true competetive advantage.. (grey area maybe, getting new weapons before others who had not used the idle program might be an unfair advantage, but the random element of drops makes it moot really)

I do think though, you obtained the items in a manner other than what the designers intended, you circumvented the (flawed) system. And I get that they are upset with that. But their reaction was not appropriate.

tl;dr I have new halo it's awzome. (probably the first time I've had 'halo' and 'awesome' in the same sentance, relating to games)

wayne040576

If anything, this is a good indication of how Valve work. They've done things like this before with people who bought games in regions where they were cheaper only to have their accounts banned.

This should be a warning to people who use sites like G2Play to buy keys on the cheap. I've said it before, once Valve figure out how to detect these keys, I reckon they'll start banning the accounts of anyone who has them without much warning.

Overheal

wayne040576 wrote: »

If anything, this is a good indication of how Valve work. They've done things like this before with people who bought games in regions where they were cheaper only to have their accounts banned.

This should be a warning to people who use sites like G2Play to buy keys on the cheap. I've said it before, once Valve figure out how to detect these keys, I reckon they'll start banning the accounts of anyone who has them without much warning.

And I think its a gross mentality.

The 8th Right of Gamers, according to Stardock:

8) Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.

I dont see anything wrong with them prohibiting a gamer in australia from activating a CD Key licensed for the European market, say. Where I think they go too far though, is making the rules tomorrow and punishing the offenders yesterday.

Where else does that work in society? People exploit loopholes in the tax code all the time. But you can't arrest them for taking advantage of Congress' mistake.

I wonder how likely a Class Action would be.

Spear

And appropriately enough

Jonathan

I haven't played tf2 in about 8-9 months.

Will i get this new hat yoke?

BopNiblets

B^U !

Anyway, I didn't realise all this idling was going on, seems a bit lame, even by the achievement whoring only servers standards.
My halo isn't the coolest, BUT AT LEAST I HAVE ONE, MWAHAHAHA!

Moriarty

Wow, you're annoyed over getting things removed that you got due to gaming the system.

Wow.


This deserves a 'leave idlers alone' britney vid tbqh.

Overheal

If you think this was about them removing items you werent listening.

witnessmenow

Overheal wrote: »

If you think this was about them removing items you werent listening.

ah but just between you and me it was about the hats right? :pac:


Does it actually label you a cheater, or do you just get no halo?

I wonder how likely a Class Action would be.

Please say this isnt about TF2? Please!

alastair_doom

Overheal wrote: »

I wonder how likely a Class Action would be.

Not even Ally McBeal would take on a case about an imaginary hat.

Tbh, what you did may not have violated any EULA/VAC, but it was very much against the spirit of the game. Cant imagine all the people who actually played the game for hours to get the achievements would be too happy about other people doing this.

Overheal

alastair_doom wrote: »

Not even Ally McBeal would take on a case about an imaginary hat.

Tbh, what you did may not have violated any EULA/VAC, but it was very much against the spirit of the game. Cant imagine all the people who actually played the game for hours to get the achievements would be too happy about other people doing this.

You really were not listening then. They removed that entire system. You had to get **** randomly. You could not earn it the old fashioned way. This was not some program or hack to mathamagically unlock the Achievements. Those are another kettle of fish altogether.

SeantheMan

Who actually has a kettle of fish ?

I've never seen one

alastair_doom

Overheal wrote: »

You really were not listening then.

Actually i did read it. It was still intended for people to actually play the games tho to actually get the unlocks, that what you appear to be missing.

I'm not making any comment on whether the new system is better or worse, i'm simply saying that what you did was not how it was intended to be played, and gave you whatever advantage over people who were playing the game properly.

Overheal wrote: »

This was not some program or hack to mathamagically unlock the Achievements. Those are another kettle of fish altogether.

Just because you didnt find a bug in the code or change the code, doesnt mean its ok. I would describe what you did as an exploit.