Double standards when it comes to defending yourself against female attack

hobochris

I was going to post this in the "best and worst" thread but feel it needs its own thread.

Probably the worst thing about being male is the corrupt social values and women taking advantage of them, for example:

Random woman comes up to random guy in the street and hits him for no apparent reason knowing she will get away with this as:

a. People around will think he did something to deserve this act of violence.
b.She knows he will not hit her back and if he does People around will automatically intervene and take up her side immediately.

Despite the law stating once you have been assaulted you may defend yourself, If the attacker is a women, even though you may fair better physically and be legally right, the people around you will turn against you and the law will no doubt be on her side ignoring the fact that you are the victim not her.

This allows ****-ish behavior from certain women to not only be tolerated, but, makes for a nurturing ground for it to increase within our society.

With the rise in male-female confrontations in bars, where she steels his drink and he goes after her to retrieve it, I can see the situation as described above happening more often.

Feminism having almost killed off Chivalry, I'm curious as to weather this line should remain uncrossed when a female attacks a male? Personally I would never hit a women and would restrain myself no matter what she had done to me but it still doesn't change the fact that I still feel the need to defend myself and thanks to this unwritten rule of society, I cant.

What do people think the best course of action should be in this situation? I personally think the female in this situation deserves a dig as much as a male in the same situation does, but I wouldn't as I have been socially conditioned not to hit women.

With equal rights now firmly within our society, how should we deal with this double standard that remains within society? can these women be shamed into not hitting men without reason in the first place? or should they be made fair game for retaliation and this social rule gotten rid off?

kenon

hobochris wrote: »

Probably the worst thing about being male is the corrupt social values and women taking advantage of them, for example:

Random woman comes up to random guy in the street and hits him for no apparent reason knowing she will get away with this as:

I think you'd have to be in the situation to know how you would act.

In this example, how did she hit him? Punch to the face? Kick to the balls? Punch to the stomach? Slap?

I haven't come against this. This being a woman hitting a man, knowing that he is unlikely to hit back.

hobochris

kenon wrote: »

I think you'd have to be in the situation to know how you would act.

In this example, how did she hit him? Punch to the face? Kick to the balls? Punch to the stomach? Slap?

I haven't come against this. This being a woman hitting a man, knowing that he is unlikely to hit back.

All are unwarranted, but for argument's sake lets say a punch to the face.

kenon

hobochris wrote: »

All are unwarranted, but for argument's sake lets say a punch to the face.

As I said, you'd kind of need to be in the situation to know how you would act.

If I was in a crowded place and some female hit me for absolutely no reason I would either:

1) Push her away very forcibly.
2) Physically restrain her.

Punching her back is most likely going to get you battered by a load of blokes who didn't see what happened or believe that you should never hit a woman no matter what she did.

hobochris

kenon wrote: »

As I said, you'd kind of need to be in the situation to know how you would act.

If I was in a crowded place and some female hit me for absolutely no reason I would either:

1) Push her away very forcibly.
2) Physically restrain her.

Punching her back is most likely going to get you battered by a load of blokes who didn't see what happened or believe that you should never hit a woman no matter what she did.

The problem there is that some people would see either a or b the same is if you punched her. some people are idiots, but unfortunately they have the numbers.

It would be nice if there was a better way of dealing with this type of thing or a way of preventing it.

kenon

hobochris wrote: »

The problem there is that some people would see either a or b the same is if you punched her. some people are idiots, but unfortunately they have the numbers.

It would be nice if there was a better way of dealing with this type of thing or a way of preventing it.

A girl/woman doing this is most likely going to be in a group where she'll be backed up.

I'm hoping that it rarely happens but thinking back I've seen it. It wasnt a vicious attack but it was a load of young-ones "actin' mad" and one of the young-ones gave some bloke a kick in the leg and pushed him from behind. The bloke just kept walking.

Terodil

Very good post, hobochris. It's something that I've been mulling over and over again in my head and not really come to a solution/conclusion on.

In fact, you only talked about physical attacks here... which are relatively mild. If we want, we can broaden the subject to any kind of attacks, including the more insidious and far more devastating ones, e.g. wrongful claim of rape, or the gutting of the man after a divorce.

For some weird reason, society is very much biased against men in that the general public (men themselves included) tend to regard men as 'guilty until proven innocent', whereas women often have the benefit of of the doubt ('she's so small and weak, how could she possibly...'). The amount of times I have seen arguments based on potential instead of facts is sickening ('Yeah but men are so much stronger so...').

I think you can only find micro-solutions for that until the times change. The sensible thing to do would be to never be alone with a woman that you do not completely trust. I mean it's really mad, in a professional environment, all she would have to do is to lodge a complaint of sexual assault, and you'd end up suspended without any say while the charges are being examined. Even if you're cleared afterwards (it's her statement against yours), you'll forever be tainted with the smell of a perv, and there's absolutely nothing that you can do about it.

The utter sense of powerlessness and the need for mistrust would be enough to drive you paranoid.

*puts on tinfoil hat*

The Davestator

I was assaulted by a gang of 6 scumbag girls on the quays a few years back and it is one of major regrets that I did not punch them all in the head. Girls that do this remove their right to be treated like ladies and if they want to behave like a man, they should be treated like a man and take the beating that comes their way.

I didnt hit them back, but was stabbed, and hit with bails of briquettes from a forecourt for no reason so I should have!

whadabouchasir

The Davestator wrote: »

I. Girls that do this remove their right to be treated like ladies and if they want to behave like a man, they should be treated like a man and take the beating that comes their way.

If you had punched them you could end up in the sh*t like previous posters said.This is a form of sexism and discrimination imo as you would have been perfectly entitled to defend yourself in this case.

CDfm

I think one issue is that women can use others and be manipulative.

Just look at this UK case where a woman who incited/encouraged her boyfriend into an attack in a shop queueing incident was convicted of manslaughter and jailed for 18 months.

So attitudes are changeing in the UK - I wonder if you would have a similar conviction in Ireland?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6019220.ece

Do women get convicted of assaulting other women?

keithg89

why does the scene from in bruges spring to mind?:D

trout

CDfm wrote: »

I think one issue is that women can use others and be manipulative.

Same is true for men ... people are inherently manipulative ... it's the human condition.

CDfm

There was a debate running in the UK a few years back that women should be treated differently then men by the criminal justice system. Cherie Blair was at the forefront of it saying women commited crime because of social issues.

There were some alternative views. Now this is a UK article and I haven't seen a similar debate in Ireland.

That's not a view shared by everyone, including Norman Brennan, founder of the Victims of Crime Trust. "There's more women in jail than ever in this country because more women are committing more violent, serious and persistent crimes. "It's nonsense to say there's too many women in prison. Judges and magistrates already bend over backwards not to send women to prison, so the prison population should actually be higher.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4373253.stm

CDfm

trout wrote: »

Same is true for men ... people are inherently manipulative ... it's the human condition.

They are aren't they but are we seeing more women getting convicted as participants or was it always so?

The Davestator
I was assaulted by a gang of 6 scumbag girls on the quays a few years back and it is one of major regrets that I did not punch them all in the head. Girls that do this remove their right to be treated like ladies and if they want to behave like a man, they should be treated like a man and take the beating that comes their way.

I didnt hit them back, but was stabbed, and hit with bails of briquettes from a forecourt for no reason so I should have!

What was the outcome was anyone charged?

ChewChew

Woman are a bit more devious when it comes to being manipulative. they always have that horrible smirk on their face and evil in their eye. I think men can be manipulative but calm at the same time!

But in my opinion, if a girl slaps a guy across the face well then she deserves one right back. I hate when a girl uses the ''oh I can smack him and he can't smack me back'' line. It's stupid, and tbh, a girl like that deserves to be locked up and thought some manners!! I dont agree with hitting anyone at all, obviously, but just some girls really play on the old I can do it and you cant! Gives the rest of us daycent ones a bad name! :P

trout

CDfm wrote: »

They are aren't they but are we seeing more women getting convicted as participants or was it always so?

No idea, so any answer would be conjecture. I'm sure this is the kind of statistic that is kept though ... there must be records of this kind of thing. Maybe one of the legal eagles will know.

*scurries off to do some googlage on crime statistics*

hobochris

Another case that springs to mind is that of the Ban Garda who accused the taxi driver of sexual assault a few months back, Only to later admit making the whole incident up.

Mean while this poor guys life is destroyed, regardless of his name being cleared he will forever have that smudge of doubt across his name, This Ban Garda pretty much ruined the guys life and iirc all she got was a slap on the wrist.

Feminism is great when it actually does what it says on the tin(strives for equality), but the current model seems to be more "pick and chose the parts we want and keep the special treatment on the rest". It should be all or nothing in my opinion no special treatment.

The jury is out in my mind as to weather the point of feminism is to get equal rights or more rights for women(eventually tipping the scale the other way).

ChewChew

That was horrific!! She accused him of raping her because he gave her a 'dirty' look!! What a fool!! It annoys me when girls do that! I knew of a girl who accused a guy of raping her many moons ago all because she didn't want her mother to know she had sex with some random guy. For shame. She absolutely ruined his life! It's so wrong, it really is.

sharky86

male or female if you drop to the ground and start to generously blow rasberries on there stomach that should do it

CDfm

There have been other cases of false allegations -this one springs to mind where the"child" accuser came forward in an unprecedented way to right the wrong. Very commendable and brave IMHO.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0210/1233867929686.html

There was another case where a nun was convicted of rape or assisting someone only to be released on appeal and exonerated. The accuser had a history of false allegations.

What struck me about these two cases was how muddled the messages from the "victims" interest groups were when the real victims were those exonerated.

So why can't it be about whats right like the young woman who came forward did.

I have phrased this clumsily but Im sure you know what I mean.

ChewChew

That is seriously disgusting!! She should be locked up. the horrible little cow! God it makes me sooo mad! :mad:

CDfm

Making a false allegation is a crime. We often see that only 8% of rape complaints result in conviction. We do not know how many allegations made are false (and I am not excusing rape here) but have there been any prosecutions for making false allegations.

OldGoat

I'm a bit of a large,chunky man so I learnt early that I have to control my reactions cos I can cause a lot of damage/hurt to people with an ill thoughtout punch to the face and so I tend to shy away from physical confrontations with anyone, male or female.

A situation arose some years ago much as you discribe, a bunch of girls in a club getting leary and loud and assuming they ruled the roost. One of them took my drink and got aggressivly confrontational when I pointed it out to her. Being egged on by her friends she slapped me, knocking my glasses off. If a man had hit me I'd probably have hit him back as the slap was no love tap but a stinging blow.
I recovered my glasses off the floor slowly, allowing my anger to dissapate, I picked up the pint of beer and I slowly poured it over her head while loudly admonishing her for stealing drinks. I think the humilitation was more hurtful to her then if I'd slapped her back.

Responding to violence with violence against man or woman is the last resort. I don't rule it out but there are lots of things for me to do beforehand including swollowing my pride and walking away from the confrontation.

CDfm

OldGoat wrote: »

I'm a bit of a large,chunky man so I learnt early that I have to control my reactions cos I can cause a lot of damage/hurt to people with an ill thoughtout punch to the face and so I tend to shy away from physical confrontations with anyone, male or female.

Responding to violence with violence against man or woman is the last resort. I don't rule it out but there are lots of things for me to do beforehand including swollowing my pride and walking away from the confrontation.

Very sensible advice from the big man. You are allowed legally to use reasonable force but sometimes it is reasonable to back down or "retreat".Its what grown ups do.


I had an incident at a pub yonks ago and it was a case of mistaken identity and I made it my business to contact the owner. Stuff like drink stealing is a no-no.