RAW and Smackdown...is it, in fact, a stroke of genius?!

SlickRic

right, here's how i see it now.

this topic has been discussed within a few threads i believe, but i think it would be handy to have another thread specifically tailored to the discussion. we'll see if people want to...

people are generally hating Raw, and generally loving Smackdown. we are all frustrated by this really. A lot of people, including myself, have wondered, 'how can one show be so good, and the other so puke inducing?'...is it the writers? is it HHH? (who is a writer i know), is it Vince? is it unequal division of talent? is it too much focus on the main-eventers on Raw?

personally i believe they've stumbled onto something.

simply put, Raw now is for the kids really. short matches which require little, or no, storytelling. hornswaggle skits. DX skits. celebrity hosts.

and Smackdown harps back to an era gone by, with longer matches, well constructed characters, well built feuds, and suitable attention to the midcard. it's a proper wrestling fan's show.

i think both shows are doing what they set out to do. i'm not a fan of Raw, but i can sort of see why they're doing what they're doing with it.

anyway, a bit of a mumble i know, but any thoughts??

Penn

SlickRic wrote: »

right, here's how i see it now.

this topic has been discussed within a few threads i believe, but i think it would be handy to have another thread specifically tailored to the discussion. we'll see if people want to...

people are generally hating Raw, and generally loving Smackdown. we are all frustrated by this really. A lot of people, including myself, have wondered, 'how can one show be so good, and the other so puke inducing?'...is it the writers? is it HHH? (who is a writer i know), is it Vince? is it unequal division of talent? is it too much focus on the main-eventers on Raw?

personally i believe they've stumbled onto something.

simply put, Raw now is for the kids really. short matches which require little, or no, storytelling. hornswaggle skits. DX skits. celebrity hosts.

and Smackdown harps back to an era gone by, with longer matches, well constructed characters, well built feuds, and suitable attention to the midcard. it's a proper wrestling fan's show.

i think both shows are doing what they set out to do. i'm not a fan of Raw, but i can sort of see why they're doing what they're doing with it.

anyway, a bit of a mumble i know, but any thoughts??

You have a point, but I don't think its a stroke of genius. Its more a by-product of constantly pushing RAW as the flagship show. So all the attention that WWE wants to get, pretending Trump buys RAW, guest hosts etc, is all on Raw, the flagship show. All the biggest events that aren't on PPVs normally happen on Raw.

This gives the Smackdown writers a lot more freedom and not having to constantly change their intended storylines based on who Vince got to be the Guest host. They're kinda left to their own devices for a lot of it I reckon, and do what needs to be done. Whereas Raws writers have to contend with huge main-eventers, sell the company as the flagship show, deal with Vinces 'great new idea'™ and sell a lot of merchandise (DX)

Rjd2

Raws ratings have been superb so clearly their is people who like what they do. The guest hosts are obviously spiking the ratings which is a good thing for Vince but then why not push some different people? What have you to lose?
Raw has always had a core audience who will always watch and those who are watching because of the celebs are not going to turn off if they see some new people in the main event.

Bounty Hunter

I have considerd this myself, how the 3 WWE shows seem to be tiered i.e ECW = Development, SD = In ring talent, Raw = Entertainment related

okay different headings could be given to each but im sure you get the gist of it. However I still dont want to accept that the WWE's flagship show (and the show that is def treated like their flagship show) is now just the entertainment brand aimed at kids, with short, matches, skits and celebs.

atm Smackdown kinda reminds me of a show I watch called 'Friday Night Lights' (American TV Series about a american football centric town in Texas), The critics love it, it gets grate reviews but perhaps because of the network its on (or cos its not live) it does not get the ratings it deserves. If it was on and live on a big network and given a prime-time slot I think youd really see the ratings rise and then maybe WWE would see that they dont have to go the celeb etc route to get ratings and maybe the product on Raw might improve.


course i could be 100% wrong on that too

paddyirishman85 wrote:

All the biggest events that aren't on PPVs normally happen on Raw.

This gives the Smackdown writers a lot more freedom and not having to constantly change their intended storylines based on who Vince got to be the Guest host. They're kinda left to their own devices for a lot of it I reckon, and do what needs to be done. Whereas Raws writers have to contend with huge main-eventers, sell the company as the flagship show, deal with Vinces 'great new idea'™ and sell a lot of merchandise (DX

this is a great point imo also

DM_7

Its a fact that the shows have differant goals. RAW is about entertainment and it really is for kids and more casual fans. It has more exposure so it makes more sense to use RAW for that purpose.

Smackdown is on a smaller network in the USA, but most fans who want to see the type of matches Smackdown puts on are going to tune in.

If all the shows were the same they would mix into one and be boring.

davrho

I agree with lots of the above but money is a big factor behind Raw. Raw has to be seen as the flash Harry with the talk about points. It has to be seen with high viewing figures to keep tv executives happy and advertisers in tow. The show is driven by finance not entertainment.

The smackdown/raw debates always bring up strange points. Hornswoggle was an acceptable part of Smackdown not so long ago and now he is a pain in the arse on Raw? HHH is supposed to ruin Raw but his stint on Smackdown was a success.

One thing rarely mentioned in these debates is that if there is a feck up on smackdown they edit it. They can doctor matches and use camera angles to make matches a lot better than they actually are. The quality of matches is different to what you see live. Also if it where to go live then you have to pander to the wishes of tv executives so maybe its better where it is.

Penn

davrho wrote: »

The smackdown/raw debates always bring up strange points. Hornswoggle was an acceptable part of Smackdown not so long ago and now he is a pain in the arse on Raw? HHH is supposed to ruin Raw but his stint on Smackdown was a success

Well Hornswoggle on Smackdown had Finlay. Horny was used to build up fueds for Khali, ie. Horny gets attacked by someone, Finlay then fights them.

On Raw, Hornswoggle is being used to bury a very talented wrestler who just doesn't deserve it. Occasionally, other wrestlers help Hornswoggle, but how many times over the past few months has he beaten Chavo? Its ridiculous. On Smackdown, the focus was on Finlay. On Raw, the focus is on Hornswoggle

HHH is a different matter though. On one hand, he helped build up Hardy, plus the 5 man scramble at Unforgiven with others. On the other hand, he held the title for too long and didn't even drop it to Hardy after all that

Rjd2

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Well Hornswoggle on Smackdown had Finlay. Horny was used to build up fueds for Khali, ie. Horny gets attacked by someone, Finlay then fights them.

On Raw, Hornswoggle is being used to bury a very talented wrestler who just doesn't deserve it. Occasionally, other wrestlers help Hornswoggle, but how many times over the past few months has he beaten Chavo? Its ridiculous. On Smackdown, the focus was on Finlay. On Raw, the focus is on Hornswoggle

HHH is a different matter though. On one hand, he helped build up Hardy, plus the 5 man scramble at Unforgiven with others. On the other hand, he held the title for too long and didn't even drop it to Hardy after all that

Hornswoggle was fine when he was with Finlay because due to their association Finlay was actually over and was in highly prominent matches.
Hunter on SD for me was underwhelming, Jeff really did not need Hunter's help and nobody on the show was booked to look like **** compared to the all conquering cerebral assasian, king of kings, the destroyer Triple H.:rolleyes:

flahavaj

SlickRic wrote: »

right, here's how i see it now.

this topic has been discussed within a few threads i believe, but i think it would be handy to have another thread specifically tailored to the discussion. we'll see if people want to...

people are generally hating Raw, and generally loving Smackdown. we are all frustrated by this really. A lot of people, including myself, have wondered, 'how can one show be so good, and the other so puke inducing?'...is it the writers? is it HHH? (who is a writer i know), is it Vince? is it unequal division of talent? is it too much focus on the main-eventers on Raw?

personally i believe they've stumbled onto something.

simply put, Raw now is for the kids really. short matches which require little, or no, storytelling. hornswaggle skits. DX skits. celebrity hosts.

and Smackdown harps back to an era gone by, with longer matches, well constructed characters, well built feuds, and suitable attention to the midcard. it's a proper wrestling fan's show.

i think both shows are doing what they set out to do. i'm not a fan of Raw, but i can sort of see why they're doing what they're doing with it.

anyway, a bit of a mumble i know, but any thoughts??

Never looked at it this way but, yeah good points actually.

Tricity Bendix

Its simple really. Ever wonder why Kellogs have so many different brands of cereals? Kellogs have flooded the cereal market with more types of cereal than anyone could possibly want, thus pushing out any possible new entrant. Anyone who wants to sell cereal will have a hard time coming up with anything original, cus Kellogs has already done it all. Plus, when shoppers look at shelves, they'll see row after row of kellogs brands, to the exclusion of everyone else.

davrho

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

On Raw, Hornswoggle is being used to bury a very talented wrestler who just doesn't deserve it. Occasionally, other wrestlers help Hornswoggle, but how many times over the past few months has he beaten Chavo? Its ridiculous. On Smackdown, the focus was on Finlay. On Raw, the focus is on Hornswoggle

Really? And Hornswoggle beating Jamie Noble week after week was what exactly? Or is it ok when its on smackdown?

I agree with your HHH comments.

Penn

davrho wrote: »

Really? And Hornswoggle beating Jamie Noble week after week was what exactly? Or is it ok when its on smackdown?

Trust me, it wasn't great either, but it wasn't as bad as it is now with Chavo. Chavo is a former ECW champion. Now he's constantly being beaten by Hornswoggle. I know what you're saying about Noble, but was it really as bad as this? I mean... Macauley Culkin??

davrho

Both were terrible. "Macauley Culkin" I give you the road runner traps.

My point is folk will openly slate the other show when almost mirror image events happen on their favorite show.

I gave up watching smackdown for a while and the first time i tuned in was a hornswoggle skit. One of the Diva's was saying to one of the twins the only reason she was going under the ring was to kiss hornswoggle. This was supposed to be the grown up show i was told. Thankfully though i have kept watching as its decent enough.

I rate both shows the same. A mixture of farse,fantasy and ridicule. Raw just now though is in bad shape. Could all swing though in a few weeks.

SlickRic

davrho wrote: »

I rate both shows the same. A mixture of farse,fantasy and ridicule. Raw just now though is in bad shape. Could all swing though in a few weeks.

as you seemed to acknowledge, you haven't seen it in a while though.

Smackdown is pretty awesome right now. i don't see it swinging 'raw-wards' for quite a bit.

good points from all. i think the pressure from television executives is probably the key issue alright. but as i say, they seem to have stumbled across a formula which may work for the entire audience they would like to reach.

Rjd2

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Trust me, it wasn't great either, but it wasn't as bad as it is now with Chavo. Chavo is a former ECW champion. Now he's constantly being beaten by Hornswoggle. I know what you're saying about Noble, but was it really as bad as this? I mean... Macauley Culkin??

The problem is Hornswoggle is a bigger draw than Chavo so Hornswoggle will always come out on top in their encounters. The kids love him and his pops rival those of the many Raw midcard faces such as Kofi, one could argue he is more over than the likes of Evan and MVP but thats a debate for another day.

I don't like the skits myself but Vince is not just catering for me, he knows their is clearly people out their who enjoy Hornswoggle.
What would Chavo be doing if he was not doing this anyways? They tried to push him as a US challenger last year nobody cared and even his ECW run was vastly overrated by those on the internet. Chavo has done much dumber stuff than this before which is something we seem to forget as well.
I would be more annoyed if it was someone with a promising future like Swagger and Miz been used for this stuff though.

DM_7

Rjd2 wrote: »

The problem is Hornswoggle is a bigger draw than Chavo so Hornswoggle will always come out on top in their encounters. The kids love him and his pops rival those of the many Raw midcard faces such as Kofi, one could argue he is more over than the likes of Evan and MVP but thats a debate for another day.

I don't like the skits myself but Vince is not just catering for me, he knows their is clearly people out their who enjoy Hornswoggle.
What would Chavo be doing if he was not doing this anyways? They tried to push him as a US challenger last year nobody cared and even his ECW run was vastly overrated by those on the internet. Chavo has done much dumber stuff than this before which is something we seem to forget as well.
I would be more annoyed if it was someone with a promising future like Swagger and Miz been used for this stuff though.

Good point, Mrs Ice watches RAW to see Hornswoggle. She thinks he is cooler than, I dunno, ELvis was back in his day.

davrho

SlickRic wrote: »

as you seemed to acknowledge, you haven't seen it in a while though.

Smackdown is pretty awesome right now. i don't see it swinging 'raw-wards' for quite a bit.

I have been watching it again for a couple of months again. I had given up on it but back enjoying it again.. Its the better show at this point in time.

I dont see any reason why it cant go the other way.

Rjd2 -good point. Many folk forget wwe is a business ran on profit and loss sheets and they cater for the majority not individual tastes.