How would the Reintroduction of fees affect Mature Students?

RebelGirrrl

If fees are reintroduced even if they do bring in a deferred loan scheme for 17/18 year olds, would mature students have to pay up-front?

RebelGirrrl

Anyone?

TirNaNog.

No body will know yet,its not even a definite,it could be that they will have to repay it when they earn a certain amount after they graduate ,higher tax or something.

It's unknown what they'll do with the grant scheme if they bring in fees (deferred or otherwise) so, since a lot of mature students avail of the grant, it's impossible to say unfortunately.

Yer wane

I rang the BTEA yesterday and they told me if fees come back in next year I will have to pay them. I'm not getting a grant this year...hopefully will be entitled to one next year... but they're talking about cutting that too aren't they? Like if you're getting BTEA you're not gonna be entitled to the grant and vice versa.

I know no actual decision has been made yet - but it's so flipping frustrating. I don't wanna put in a years work only to realise that I cannot afford to go back and complete the degree.

AAAAaaaaaaaaarrggggggghhhh.

urban cowboy

yeah totally agree, it's a pain that I could do without also. Just about going to get through this year on what I have, never mind trying to get by next year when/if cuts are brought in.
I remember the minister for education stating on tv that if fees were to be brought back that students already in the system would not be effected:rolleyes:. That statement could well have been hot air, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see

Sad Professor

They definitely won't get rid of the grant, but I doubt grant holders will be exempt from paying fees.

Mature students are unlikely to be treated any differently to other students. i.e., they'll get stuck with massive debt as well. This is bound to be a huge disincentive to people wishing to return to education. Unless the government creates further incentives for mature students.

urban cowboy wrote:

I remember the minister for education stating on tv that if fees were to be brought back that students already in the system would not be effected. That statement could well have been hot air, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see

The HEA announced recently that 2009 entrants will have to pay any future fees. But pre-existing students won't.

Clueless09

I am a 2009 entrant but I am going into 2nd year due to exemptions. So next yr I would be in my final year-do you think this would affect me or only people who are going into 1st year this year? I do agree it will be a disincentive for people to go to college which is a real pity.

RebelGirrrl

I don't mind the debt but do you think they would bring up front fees that'd stop me from going in the first place?

Sad Professor

Clueless09 wrote:

I am a 2009 entrant but I am going into 2nd year due to exemptions. So next yr I would be in my final year-do you think this would affect me or only people who are going into 1st year this year? I do agree it will be a disincentive for people to go to college which is a real pity.

It's a good question. I doubt even the Minister could answer it yet. It's complicated things like this that really show how insufficient that HEA warning about future fee liability was. The government hasn't even made a decision to bring fees back yet, but they expect us all to sit in the dark for a year.

Also, what about students who deferred their place last year, where will they stand? When the Labour government in the UK brought in fees a few years ago, gap year students were exempt. But afaik they were warned well in advance that fees were coming in. O'Keeffe has been blabbering about fees for over a year and we are still none the wiser.

Hopefully the USI will challenge this but I'm not optimistic they'll succeed. Student protests inevitably come to nothing in this country. In the meantime, Liam Carroll is running rings around our legal system.

RebelGirrrl wrote:

I don't mind the debt but do you think they would bring up front fees that'd stop me from going in the first place?

O'Keeffe has said more than once that he wants any student "contribution" to be "family proof". Translated that means that parents vote but students don't. Upfront fees hits the parents; a deferred loan or graduate tax hits the student. This is why upfront fees are off the cards. Although they'll probably be reserved as a choice for the rich folk.

Personally I'd prefer upfront fees that targeted the rich. However the current government could never be trusted to implement such a system fairly.

Manach

As I'm paying full fees for my evening course, does not effect me in the least

RebelGirrrl

Does anyone else agree that 'upfront' fees are off the cards even for mature students?

sadie06

It would decimate the retired mature student population completely in my opinion. Those whose working life is behind them, disregarding the very wealthy, could not afford to pay fees upfront and, obviously, any loan scheme wouldn't work either.

That would be a real shame. I did an Access course with many people in this category, all of whom went on to further study and contributed hugely to college life. It is very important to make sure this section of society is not left out in the cold when fees are reintroduced.

RebelGirrrl

RebelGirrrl wrote: »

I don't mind the debt but do you think they would bring up front fees that'd stop me from going in the first place?

Really? Why?
As a graduate you will more than likely spend the rest of your working life paying far more in taxes than someone who chose not to attend college.

People need to stop accepting this as a given. People need to get off their arses next time they hear of a march being organised by students against fee's. Give em hell.

Sad Professor

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People need to stop accepting this as a given. People need to get off their arses next time they hear of a march being organised by students against fee's. Give em hell.

+1

mickstupp

Straight up fees applicable to all and sundry, or even means tested, would mean I'd have to drop out of college. Being that I'm heading into second year I might get away with not having to fork out. But if I had to pay, and there was either a loan system or a pay back in tax system, I wouldn't mind at all. In fact, if I was offered a loan tomorrow I'd say yes please, since it's difficult enough to find the funds as it is and my ability to pay a loan back, once I've reached a decent wage, will be much better with a good qualification.

I have no issue leaving college 20, 30, 50 grand in debt. Yes, on top of my mortgage. Because right now I've no qualifications and all the jobs in my area of experience are nowadays going to people with degrees, not experience. I'm not sure there's a much of a bright future in this country without the bare minimum of a degree. If I have to pay a tonne of money back through loans or taxes, to be in a better position than I am now, to have a better chance with good qualifications, to get the education I don't have but want... then I'm more than happy to do it.

But in saying that... chances are the government will screw us all over and there'll be a tonne of people dropping out of courses all over the place. And a tonne more not going to college as they'd planned. Not that I'm pessimistic or anything.

ditmature

Sad Professor wrote: »

They definitely won't get rid of the grant, but I doubt grant holders will be exempt from paying fees.

From the HEG Scheme 2009/10:

5.3 Lecture Fee Grants
5.3.1 Where a candidate is not eligible for free tuition under the Free Fees Initiative and is pursuing an approved course at undergraduate levelin an institution listed in Appendix I(A),the Local Authority may award a full or part grant in respect of the candidate's lecture fee, as defined in Clause 1, subject to the terms of this Scheme.
5.4 Grant in respect of Student Services Charge[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5.4.1[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Where a candidate qualifies for a maintenance grant and is pursuing an approved course to which the Free Fees Initiative applies or, would have qualified for a lecture fee grant but for the Free Fees Initiative, the Local Authority shall, where applicable, award the candidate a grant in respect of the student services charge of up to [/FONT]€1,500[FONT=&quot]. This grant shall be paid directly to the college/institution by the Local Authority.[/FONT]
CLAUSE 10: PAYMENT OF GRANT

10.1 The lecture fee grant, payable to grant-holders in accordance with Clause 5 (3.1), shall be paid, subject to the maximum lecture fee approved by the Minister for Education and Science, by the Local Authority to the college concerned on receipt of an invoice from the college for the lecture fee for the grant-holder. This shall be subject to the refund in full of the lecture fee if the grant-holder does not register or take up a place, or is in receipt of assistance towards the lecture fee from any other source.
10.2 Subject to the maximum lecture fee approved by the Minister for Education and Science, no lecture fee grant shall exceed the E.U. rate of fee payable in respect of any approved course.
The maximum fee limit shall apply as follows:
(i)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]All Undergraduate courses not approved under the terms of the Free Fees Initiative and
(ii)[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]all Post-graduate courses: €6,270.


In short, unless there are drastic changes to the 2010/11 scheme, the Higher Education Grant will pay for tuition fees. Bear in mind, though, that the TLT Grant (for Level 6 & 7 Technical Programmes) does not pay for tuition fees.

Bob