Cyclist killed by driver after late night road rage incident

flickerx

So, a former attorney general got into a late night row with a cycling courier in Toronto last night, and ended up killing him with his car.

Very serious, horrible incident.
I know there's been threads on here before about cycling drunk, I guess this shows the danger of being pissed and how it could escalate a minor collision into something much more violent.

"According to witnesses, Bryant cut the argument short by pulling away. As he headed westbound on Bloor St., Sheppard chased the car on foot. He grabbed hold of the vehicle on the driver's side. It's not clear if he was trying to get into the car, get at the driver or merely prevent him from leaving.

In one published report, a witness recalled seeing sparks flying from Sheppard's cycling shoes as he skidded on the road alongside the car.

Within seconds, the westbound car had crossed over into the eastbound lanes of Bloor St. Construction workers laying pipe on the stretch of road gaped as the car swerved toward them. It was dark. Many couldn't see Sheppard clinging to the vehicle. All of them said they could hear Bryant screaming.

"The car was riding right up against the sidewalk where there were trees and posts and newspaper boxes. The tires were screeching," said witness Josh Harlan.

"Suddenly it was clear to me whoever was dragging on the side of the car was in mortal danger. It was like something out of a gangster movie."

Several witnesses said it looked like the driver was trying to brush the cyclist off his car using the roadside objects as bludgeons. The first thing Sheppard struck was a small tree. Then he slammed into a grey mail collection box. Sheppard fell from the car. During the collision, he was thrown under the Saab's rear wheels.

Witnesses described Sheppard bleeding heavily from the nose and mouth. He was taken to hospital, where he died from his injuries."

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/689771
http://www.680news.com/more.jsp?content=20090901_054045_11120
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/bryants-story-shocking-sobering-far-too-common/article1272593/
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/09/01/toronto-cyclist-collision-death481.html

tomasrojo

That's incredible.

I see this on one of those pages:
"The executive director of the Toronto Cyclists Union talks about the apprehension cyclists feel on Toronto's streets and the need for better cycling infrastructure to increase safety"

Emmm ... the need for motorists not to behave in a homicidal manner might be more pertinent?

MagicMarker

Why didn't he let go?

tomasrojo

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/bryants-story-shocking-sobering-far-too-common/article1272593/

This one is an odd mixture of reporting the story combined with the ever-popular journalist-who-doesn't-know-how-to-cycle-finds-cycling-terrifying feature.

Gavin

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why didn't he let go?

Car dragging him in a sideways motion. Lets go and he's under the wheels perhaps?

Sleipnir

tomasrojo wrote: »

Emmm ... the need for motorists not to behave in a homicidal manner might be more pertinent?

Hang on, one motorist in The World behaves like a crazy homicidal nut and what, every motorist is a crazy homicidal nut now?
"My God, a man killed a man therefore all men are evil." Isn't there "a need" for every homicidal maniac not to behave in a homicial manner?

What a ridiculous statement to make.

tomasrojo

Sleipnir wrote: »

Hang on, one motorist in the U.S. behaves like a crazy homicidal nut and what, every motorist is a crazy homicidal nut now?
"My God, a man killed a man therefore all men are evil." Isn't there "a need" for every homicidal maniac not to behave in a homicial manner?

What a ridiculous statement to make.

Sorry, you've misunderstood me. I meant that it wasn't the opportune moment to bring up cycling facilities, but rather the moment to condemn homicidal behaviour, since it wasn't the absence of cycling facilities that resulted in this death.

I'm not saying every motorist is a homicidal nut, and I don't believe anything remotely similar to that. Perhaps my phrasing was a little infelicitous, but you're reading rather too much into it.

flickerx

Sleipnir wrote: »

Hang on, one motorist in the U.S.

Toronto is in Canada.

-Chris-

So wait, the driver tried to cut the arguement short and leave the scene, the cyclist in a fit of rage chased after the car on foot and caught up with it. The driver then, in total terror about the lunatic hanging on the side of his car (probably screaming in the window like a lunatic) panics and tries to shake this mentaller?

Did I read that right?


I'm a cyclist, and I'm pro-cyclist, but I think the responsibility in this incident is 50:50 at most.

But "motorist kills cyclist" sells more papers... :rolleyes:

tomasrojo

It's the way he allegedly tried to knock the man off by passing close to trees and mailboxes that's the issue, I think. If he did that deliberately, it's extremely serious.

I guess that continuing to drive in a panic when someone enraged is hanging off your car is somewhat understandable.

Stark

-Chris- wrote:

So wait, the driver tried to cut the arguement short and leave the scene, the cyclist in a fit of rage chased after the car on foot and caught up with it. The driver then, in total terror about the lunatic hanging on the side of his car (probably screaming in the window like a lunatic) panics and tries to shake this mentaller?

Did I read that right?


I'm a cyclist, and I'm pro-cyclist, but I think the responsibility in this incident is 50:50 at most.

But "motorist kills cyclist" sells more papers...

That's what I was thinking as well.

Maybe we should add a new bit to cyclecraft or the boards.ie wiki:

"Do not cycle up the inside of a vehicle turning left.
Do not chase after a moving vehicle, grab onto the side of the vehicle and start screaming like a lunatic into the window of the vehicle".

tomasrojo

tomasrojo wrote: »

Sorry, you've misunderstood me. I meant that it wasn't the opportune moment to bring up cycling facilities, but rather the moment to condemn homicidal behaviour, since it wasn't the absence of cycling facilities that resulted in this death.

I'm not saying every motorist is a homicidal nut, and I don't believe anything remotely similar to that. Perhaps my phrasing was a little infelicitous, but you're reading rather too much into it.

I should also clarify that when I said 'homicidal', my intention was to use the legal meaning , not the popular sense of 'murderous'.

Anyhow, I hope that's cleared up. I'm not anti-motorist.

Sleipnir

flickerx wrote: »

Toronto is in Canada.

Cheers, fixed my post.

in The World

:rolleyes:

Lumen

flickerx wrote: »

I guess this shows the danger of being pissed and how it could escalate a minor collision into something much more violent.

Alcohol doesn't kill people, idiocy kills people. I once clung on to the outside of an accelerating train (whilst sober) in attempt to convince the platform staff to stop the train to I could retrieve the laptop I'd left within. Fortunately the strategy worked.

One would think that a former attorney general would know what constituted reasonable force/self-defence, unless the red mist had descended completely.

copacetic

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's the way he allegedly tried to knock the man off by passing close to trees and mailboxes that's the issue, I think. If he did that deliberately, it's extremely serious.

I guess that continuing to drive in a panic when someone enraged is hanging off your car is somewhat understandable.

Its hard to know what you would do if some pyscho chases after you and hangs out of your car trying to get at you. Personally I wouldn't even say it was 50/50.

blorg

-Chris- wrote: »

So wait, the driver tried to cut the arguement short and leave the scene, the cyclist in a fit of rage chased after the car on foot and caught up with it. The driver then, in total terror about the lunatic hanging on the side of his car (probably screaming in the window like a lunatic) panics and tries to shake this mentaller?

Did I read that right?

I'm a cyclist, and I'm pro-cyclist, but I think the responsibility in this incident is 50:50 at most.

Yes, and I agree the cyclist is far from blameless, but question is whether you then have the right to try to kill the person trying to get at you... Generally this would only be acceptable in self defense if you were in genuine mortal danger. This is really the bit in question, was the cyclist presenting that serious a threat?

In the US the driver would likely have more of a chance, Canada is not quite so trigger happy with these things.

Stark

copapetic wrote:

Its hard to know what you would do if some pyscho chases after you and hangs out of your car trying to get at you. Personally I wouldn't even say it was 50/50.

I'd probably keep driving and not dare stop until he'd lost his grip.

blorg wrote:

Yes, and I agree the cyclist is far from blameless, but question is whether you then have the right to try to kill the person trying to get at you... Generally this would only be acceptable in self defense if you were in genuine mortal danger. This is really the bit in question, was the cyclist presenting that serious a threat?

Question is whether the death was intentional. More than likely he thought the cyclist would let go straight away after being hit by a tree or whatever.

copacetic

blorg wrote: »

Yes, and I agree the cyclist is far from blameless, but question is whether you then have the right to try to kill the person trying to get at you... Generally this would only be acceptable in self defense if you were in genuine mortal danger. This is really the bit in question, was the cyclist presenting that serious a threat?

In the US the driver would likely have more of a chance, Canada is not quite so trigger happy with these things.

I suppose it depends what level of intent you give to someone nuts enough to drag out of a moving car. It'd be pretty scary I'd imagine, especially if the guy driving was already trying to get away from him for some reason.

Stark wrote: »

I'd probably keep driving and not dare stop until he'd lost his grip.

thats what I'd be thinking myself. Hard to know really.

Lumen

Stark wrote: »

I'd probably keep driving and not dare stop until he'd lost his grip.

Wind down the window and lick his face?

The Big Red Button

I know if I was driving a convertible and had a drunk angry man hanging off the side of it and refusing to let go, I'd be pretty damn terrified, I'd probably be too scared to stop as well.

And is the fact that he's a cyclist really that relevant? I mean, he'd already left his bike behind when all this happened. It could just as easily have been a drunk angry pedestrian!

Also, according to those articles, eyewitnesses claimed that the "victim" attempted to choke the driver, so he was hardly all that innocent. Not saying he deserved to die, but I'd certainly have some sympathy for the driver involved - particularly having read the details in those linked articles.

Stark

Lumen wrote: »

Wind down the window and lick his face?

That would work if it was the driver side window I guess

tomasrojo

chatterpillar wrote: »

I know if I was driving a convertible and had a drunk angry man hanging off the side of it and refusing to let go, I'd be pretty damn terrified, I'd probably be too scared to stop as well.

And is the fact that he's a cyclist really that relevant? I mean, he'd already left his bike behind when all this happened. It could just as easily have been a drunk angry pedestrian!

Also, according to those articles, eyewitnesses claimed that the "victim" attempted to choke the driver, so he was hardly all that innocent. Not saying he deserved to die, but I'd certainly have some sympathy for the driver involved - particularly having read the details in those linked articles.

Yes, I agree, it's not really a cycling issue. It's really an issue of how you deal with enraged drunks when you're driving a car. And a very singular incident of that set of situations.

I'd still be of the opinion that his alleged attempts to use trees and mailboxes to hit the man off the side of his car are where his behaviour may put him in jail. A very likely outcome from making close passes to immovable street furniture at any kind of speed was the death of the drunken man.

Vélo

Stark wrote: »

That would work if it was the driver side window I guess

Or you've a really long tongue.

FruitLover

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's the way he allegedly tried to knock the man off by passing close to trees and mailboxes that's the issue, I think. If he did that deliberately, it's extremely serious.

Personally, in a sitiuation where some psychopath has proven to be crazy enough to chase after and grab onto my moving car, I would probably rather bash him off a tree than risk letting him gouge my eyes out in a fit of rage.

Stark

The driver could have stopped at a red light and let the cyclist go on through.

(Sorry ).

The Big Red Button

Stark wrote: »

The driver could have stopped at a red light and let the cyclist go on through.

(Sorry ).

In the articles I've read, it doesn't mention a red light, just that it started with a minor incident in which the cyclist hit the other man's car.

Edit: Oh wait, I get it ... oops!

Chips Lovell

He was joking

Vélo

FruitLover wrote: »

some psychopath has proven to be crazy enough to chase after and grab onto my moving car

He must have been a fixie rider:P

OK that's a bit bad I'll stop now

blorg

Stark wrote: »

I'd probably keep driving and not dare stop until he'd lost his grip.

Question is whether the death was intentional. More than likely he thought the cyclist would let go straight away after being hit by a tree or whatever.

I think this is the issue, driving away with yer man hanging off or trying to physically remove his grip is one thing, bashing him off street furniture is another... I think punching the guy in the face would probably have been more appropriate.

Vélo

blorg wrote: »

I think punching the guy in the face would probably have been more appropriate.

Jesus Blorg, there's a violent streak in there!

petethedrummer

Stark wrote: »

I'd probably keep driving and not dare stop until he'd lost his grip.

If Father Ted has taught us anything, its that sudden braking will remove an angry assailant from a vehicle.

Acoustic

Blame Canada ( southpark music )

blorg

Vélo wrote: »

Jesus Blorg, there's a violent streak in there!

Well punching the guy in the face with the car stationary would probably have dislodged him and he would still be alive with hopefully nothing much worse than a broken nose.

Reasonably justifiable force too if he had just been trying to choke you.

One way or the other it is arguably more proportionate than trying to slam him off street furniture from a moving car at speed and then driving over him, the latter part being not directly intentional but the former being very deliberate from all accounts (with the latter being most certainly a foreseeable consequence.)

Vélo

blorg wrote: »

Well punching the guy in the face with the car stationary would probably have dislodged him and he would still be alive with hopefully nothing much worse than a broken nose.

Reasonably justifiable force too if he had just been trying to choke you.

One way or the other it is arguably more proportionate than trying to slam him off street furniture from a moving car at speed and then driving over him, the latter part being not directly intentional but the former being very deliberate from all accounts (with the latter being most certainly a foreseeable consequence.)

Totally agree with you. It just seemed funny when I read it. Maybe instead of a punch in the face why not a good shove to get him away from the car.

tomasrojo

This report has a bit more information.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/world/americas/02toronto.html?_r=1

After the collision, Mr. Sheppard apparently grabbed the driver’s side door and held on. Within moments, the police received reports of a Saab convertible racing past the fashionable shops of Bloor Street with a man clinging to its side. Two construction workers doing repairs along the road told CTV, a Canadian television network, that the car accelerated, its tires squealing, before veering into oncoming traffic on the left side of the street.

The workers said that the motorist repeatedly mounted the sidewalk and drove near lampposts in what seemed to be an attempt to brush off the man hanging onto the side.

One of the workers said the driver was “yelling pretty loud and he sounded very, very angry.” The other worker said, “He meant to knock him off.”

flickerx

I got an email from a friend about it, the couriers are having a protest/memorial ride this evening at 5pm where the guy was killed, apparently they're furious about it, especially after the incident late last year where a cyclist had his leg severed in another night road rage clash.

Acoustic

I knew you were a gourier oh i mean courier

u dropping over this evening

DirkVoodoo

Was he on the bike while being dragged around, clinging to the car?

If I was holding onto a car that suddenly decided to try and kill me by running all over the road, I would probably cling on for dear life too.

BostonB

Sounds like there was rage on both sides. Neither was willing to let it go.

FruitLover

blorg wrote: »

I think punching the guy in the face would probably have been more appropriate.

Tut tut, you must keep your hands at Ten and Two!!

kincsem

I don't recognise many of the names posting in this thread. Perhaps they have appeared to give a balanced view.

Karma

tried to write about this, but sorry, all i got is: get all the actual facts and have a good look at yourself and ask youself...

RedPlanet

More detailed information here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/a-cyclist-dead-a-political-star-tarnished/article1271489/

The cyclist had been drinking, and was agitated from a previous row with his gfriend.
Sounds like the altercation started when the car bumped the cyclist's back wheel.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/a-cyclist-dead-a-political-star-tarnished/article1271489/.

But, i wouldn't hold my breath for justice, the driver has

hired a high-powered communications company in an apparent bid to stem political fallout.

And, he's only being charged with

criminal negligence causing death and dangerous operation of a motor vehicle causing death

Which in Canada keeps the investigation with the Traffic Services, rather than the homicide people.

tomasrojo

http://www.nowtoronto.com/daily/story.cfm?content=171209

Some CCTV footage of the original incident that enraged Sheppard. It looks as if Bryant deliberately shunted Sheppard for about a car's length or so. Perhaps the footage is misleading. The accompanying music on youtube doesn't add anything, obviously.

tomasrojo

Quite a bit of tension in Toronto following that incident, it seems. Attempts are being made to defuse tension.

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/31309/US-cyclists-say-thank-you-to-safe-drivers

(Looks as if whoever put together the URL thinks Toronto is in the USA.)