growing trees

paulmallon

im thinking of growing trees for firewood timber.
whats the best type to plant.?
any experience of eucalyptus?

reilig

paulmallon wrote: »

im thinking of growing trees for firewood timber.
whats the best type to plant.?
any experience of eucalyptus?

Hybrid poplar trees grow up to 10 feet per year and they live 40+ years. You can cut them for firewood in 5 years. You can get a nice privacy screen or windbreak in only 2 years, they make pulp logs in 6-7 years, they make saw logs in 8-10 years, a market is steadily growing for this material... and they are inexpensive.

Some HP's grow to 100+ feet and their branches extend as far as 40 feet in diameter.

I got a pack of seeds for them in the last few weeks and I intend to start growing seedlings. They need to be planted in soil where the roots can reach water - I have about an acre of bog that I would like try them out in. An acre should keep a constant supply of wood to my house in 10 years time.

The_Conductor

BTUs from Poplar or Eucalyptus are ridiculously low though- even with a lower growth potential, many other species make far better firewood. I'd ignore Eucalyptus altogether in an Irish context- its incredibly prone to frost- several experimental plots in different parts of the country (with a few notable exceptions such as Parnell's homeplace) have been abondoned.

While it would be site dependent- I'd be far more inclined towards even the likes of Ash or Birch- they may not have anything like the growth rate of Poplar but you might get 8-10m3 paph from them- and you'd have really good fire logs (with the potential of hurley ash as a good primary cash flow).....?

reilig

smccarrick wrote: »

BTUs from Poplar or Eucalyptus are ridiculously low though- even with a lower growth potential, many other species make far better firewood. I'd ignore Eucalyptus altogether in an Irish context- its incredibly prone to frost- several experimental plots in different parts of the country (with a few notable exceptions such as Parnell's homeplace) have been abondoned.

While it would be site dependent- I'd be far more inclined towards even the likes of Ash or Birch- they may not have anything like the growth rate of Poplar but you might get 8-10m3 paph from them- and you'd have really good fire logs (with the potential of hurley ash as a good primary cash flow).....?

I currently have an old ash plantation, its about 1/2 an acre and pretty mature. The hurley ash has been taken from it and it has been regularly thinned for firewood over the years. It used to be 3/4 of an acre, but we have been cutting timber from it for our own use for the last 15 years.

To be honest, from personal experience, I would not plant ash again because of the time that it takes for it to mature. While you can have thinnings after 12 to 15 years, these are nothing more than branches, they are difficult to harvest and hard to handle. I would plant ordinary sika spruce before ash. It has a much faster return with far less maintenance. If dried properly, it gives a reasonable return.

Growing ash specifically for hurley's is a labour intensive and low profit operation. It takes 25 to 30 years for an ash tree to mature to a size that would yield 10 hurleys. It takes 60 years for it to mature to a size that will yield approximately 40 hurley boards. You can plant ash and train it to grow specifically for hurleys - but who has 30 or 60 years to wait for a return.

Ash has a BTU per cord of approx 23.
Poplar has a BTU per cord of approx 15.
Birch has a BTU per cord of approx 17.

Poplar grows 10 times faster than ash. To me is more sensible to utilise the land to grow something that will give me a return in my lifetime and be useful for keeping the gasifying boiler going. Of course, any wood that I use will need to be dried for at least 18 months before burning.

Sam Kade

reilig wrote: »

I currently have an old ash plantation, its about 1/2 an acre and pretty mature. The hurley ash has been taken from it and it has been regularly thinned for firewood over the years. It used to be 3/4 of an acre, but we have been cutting timber from it for our own use for the last 15 years.

To be honest, from personal experience, I would not plant ash again because of the time that it takes for it to mature. While you can have thinnings after 12 to 15 years, these are nothing more than branches, they are difficult to harvest and hard to handle. I would plant ordinary sika spruce before ash. It has a much faster return with far less maintenance. If dried properly, it gives a reasonable return.

The other problem with ash is, if you have it growing on field boundaries the roots spread out 15' from the tree close to the surface making it a nightmare to plough into the boundary.

reilig

Sam Kade wrote: »

The other problem with ash is, if you have it growing on field boundaries the roots spread out 15' from the tree close to the surface making it a nightmare to plough into the boundary.

The only ploughing done within a 20 mile radious of me is with the wheels of the tractor

tap28

reilig wrote: »

Ash has a BTU per cord of approx 23.
Poplar has a BTU per cord of approx 15.
Birch has a BTU per cord of approx 17.

Thinking of planking about 2/3 of an acre for personal firewood, where did you get that information? A friend of mine says birch (can't remember which verity) and hornbeam are great as they grow quickly and burn good. Is he right?

Thanks

Tap

The_Conductor

tap28 wrote: »

Thinking of planking about 2/3 of an acre for personal firewood, where did you get that information? A friend of mine says birch (can't remember which verity) and hornbeam are great as they grow quickly and burn good. Is he right?

Thanks

Tap

We have two native species of birch in Ireland Betula pubescens (downy birch) and Betula Pendula (the silver birch). Prof Ted Farrell and his researchers out in UCD are doing a lot of research on their growth potential on different type sites- but it looks pretty clear cut that the silver birch has much higher potential than the downy birch. There is an improvement programme ongoing to improve the seedstock available here- funded by COFORD, which has had some very interesting results.

Birch makes excellent firewood (its almost as dense as oak, and has a relatively fast rotation- being actively used for biomass production in a number of European countries (not Ireland to-date)). On the continent its often used along with alder (notably the further north you go- but even as far south as Flanders), in an Irish context while it has rarely been used, there was a lot of interest in it as a nursery species in broadleaved stands. Birch reaches its maximum biomass production rate at a very early age (6-8) and some clearfells in the Phoenix Park had diameters of between 45 and 60cm (corresponding to ages of 70 and 100- which are very unusual- normally felling might occur around age 20-25- though there is little historical data in an Irish context).

Birch should be considered very favourably as its a pioneering species that very often invades sites incapable of supporting anything else (such as cutaway peatlands).

So it grows fast, reaches its maximum growth potential at a very early age, would have very decent firewood production within 17-20 years (or earlier if you're happy with smaller diameters), and if you're willing to wait considerably longer you may actually have a valuable hardwood crop, particularly of interest for veneers etc.

I've no experience with hornbeam- prehaps reilig might have a better idea?

reilig

tap28 wrote: »

Thinking of planking about 2/3 of an acre for personal firewood, where did you get that information? A friend of mine says birch (can't remember which verity) and hornbeam are great as they grow quickly and burn good. Is he right?

Thanks

Tap

I got the info from a coford brochure/leaflet that I picked up at a firewood processing machine demo last year in Monaghan. Don't know how accurate it is.

I have no experience of either growing, cutting or burning hornbeam I'm afraid.
I do have a significant amount of silver birch growing on the land. I don't find it to be great for burning to be honest. It needs a good bit of drying to ensure that it doesn't siss when you put it on the fire. It also has potential to be over dry where it will burn like cardboard - compared to the ash I find it only burns for half the amount of time.

I've never burned the downy birch. It might be better than the silver.

RonRocoman

smccarrick,
i recently saw a lot of large trees cut in phoenix park. where does that wood go? how is is sold off? these were signifcant sized hardwood trees.

thanks

The_Conductor

RonRocoman wrote: »

smccarrick,
i recently saw a lot of large trees cut in phoenix park. where does that wood go? how is is sold off? these were signifcant sized hardwood trees.

thanks

Good question- I might ask a guy I know in the OPW.......
Will get back to you if I get a (coherent) answer.......