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500k worth of a drug seized - Even though it's legal

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    #2
    brummytom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    Very strange - slightly minority report.

    They can't seize these until they're illegal can they? :confused:


    Just trying to make it look like they're actually doing something for once, no doubt.


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    #3
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Im surprised this hasn't happened here if not already.

    BZP was banned here last March by Mary Herney.


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    #4
    Lord Derpington
    Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Lord Derpington


    I would imagine that they were stock piling them for when they become illegal, or else they could of been passing them off a something else on the streets


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    #5
    Wazdakka
    Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Wazdakka


    greenfly wrote: »
    they could of been passing them off a something else on the streets

    Is that Illegal?

    If the drug you are selling is Legal, but you could sell it for a better price pretending it was illegal..
    The police couldn't touch you..

    Although thinking about it,
    All they'd have to do is tell your buddies that your selling it to that you're ripping them off with BZP..
    Then its goodbye kneecaps and elbows..

    Never mind :P


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    #6
    Lord Derpington
    Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭Lord Derpington


    Wazdakka wrote: »
    Is that Illegal?

    The buying and selling.. no i suppose not.
    But there is bound to be something in it, like for instance i doubt they had planned on declaring each one and paying tax on each sale :pac:


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    #7
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    Remember that the law basically means nothing in Ireland, either side of the border.
    Policing is undertaken on a gut-reaction basis which bears no resemblance to legislation.


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    #8
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    workaccount wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0902/breaking1.htm

    I don't understand the above article. They seized them because they think they are dangerous. They are going to be outlawed at the end of the year but as of now are still legal.

    What grounds did the PSNI have to seize these? :confused:

    They'll probably seize them for 'tests' and these 'tests' will take months and by the time they're ready to return them BZP will have been made illegal. Now I don't know where that leaves the guys who bought them. Do they get compensation since they had a legal product taken off them for no good reason?


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    #9
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    johnl wrote: »
    Remember that the law basically means nothing in Ireland, either side of the border.
    Policing is undertaken on a gut-reaction basis which bears no resemblance to legislation.

    Don't understand what you mean here. If the police seized something belonging to me or arrested me when I haven't broken any law my solictor would be on the case straight away and I would sue the police if possible. I hope to god you are not a cop - come to think of it if you were you would probably have lost your job by now.
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    They'll probably seize them for 'tests' and these 'tests' will take months and by the time they're ready to return them BZP will have been made illegal. Now I don't know where that leaves the guys who bought them. Do they get compensation since they had a legal product taken off them for no good reason?

    Well they should not be held liable if it was legal when they had them. Tricky about the testing thing I suppose - if I was 500k down because it took them ages to test it and I didn't do anything wrong I'd sue them. Who the f*ck do they think they are? Don't understand this story at all.


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    #10
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    That strikes me as wrong. Nobody else think that's definitely not OK? What was the reason for them being seized?


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    #11
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    "These drugs are legal but they are anything but safe, they are potentially lethal particularly where young people are concerned"---Organised Crime Branch spokesman

    What the ****? Condescending, ephebiphobic nonsense.

    This whole thing is a disgrace.


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    while bzp is crap, if its not illegal up there yet, then they cant just destroy a mans finances without any law to back it up.


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    #13
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    Deleted User wrote: »
    while bzp is crap, if its not illegal up there yet, then they cant just destroy a mans finances without any law to back it up.
    If they're anything like the Irish police they can and will. I was talking to a worker in Nirvana recently. He said the Gardaí had raided the branch on a few occasions and taken a number of products away for testing. The shop never got these legal products back, nor did they receive any remuneration for their loss. That said, there's a big difference between 500k worth goods and a few hundred euros worth of funnypills.


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    #14
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Given that there are no details beyond the fact of the seizure, all is pure speculation here. Who has that amount of drugs knocking about? Probably a criminal. Perhaps it was an assets seizure, or a Revenue raid, or Customs. There's more than one reason goods can be taken by the state.


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    #15
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,356 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Pace2008 wrote: »
    If they're anything like the Irish police they can and will. I was talking to a worker in Nirvana recently. He said the Gardaí had raided the branch on a few occasions and taken a number of products away for testing. The shop never got these legal products back, nor did they receive any remuneration for their loss.

    Kurt Cobain is dead, let it go.


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    #16
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    Given that there are no details beyond the fact of the seizure, all is pure speculation here. Who has that amount of drugs knocking about? Probably a criminal. Perhaps it was an assets seizure, or a Revenue raid, or Customs. There's more than one reason goods can be taken by the state.

    Well your speculating now :D. I'm basing what I'm saying on what the editorial implies - which is that they were taken because they are dangerous and because two people in the UK have died from them.

    You do have a point though - this may just be very bad journalism.


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    #17
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    workaccount wrote: »
    Don't understand what you mean here. If the police seized something belonging to me or arrested me when I haven't broken any law my solictor would be on the case straight away and I would sue the police if possible. I hope to god you are not a cop - come to think of it if you were you would probably have lost your job by now.
    I am far from a cop :)
    I meant that the police and gardaí tend to act first, based on their sense of right and wrong, and then try and connect it to the law after. Ever try asking a guard what law they're giving you hassle under? They usually back off fairly quickly.
    The guards will act as they want up until they might have to consider a case going to court, at which point they will start connecting things to legislation or just let you go.
    This has just been my experience.
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    What the ****? Condescending, ephebiphobic nonsense. This whole thing is a disgrace.
    And no-one will say anything, and nothing will be done, because no-one who cares enough really likes BZP. Another win for arbitrary policing.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    while bzp is crap, if its not illegal up there yet, then they cant just destroy a mans finances without any law to back it up.
    And yet they will. And he won't challenge it because it'd only end up hurting him more.
    Pace2008 wrote: »
    If they're anything like the Irish police they can and will. I was talking to a worker in Nirvana recently. He said the Gardaí had raided the branch on a few occasions and taken a number of products away for testing. The shop never got these legal products back, nor did they receive any remuneration for their loss.
    I heard about this too, just seized everything they could get their hands on, not paying any heed to what was illegal or not. And of course they felt they could get away with it, because it's a "head shop".


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    #18
    Thomas_S_Hunterson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Great to have crappy dud pills of the street tbh.


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    #19
    Neonlight
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭Neonlight


    At the end of the day, drugs are drugs take them of the streets,the proceeds from the sale of the so called legal substance was probably eventually going to be used to buy some illegal stuff.And no doubt the people holding this **** were no doubt of criminal origins and not some nerdy third level chemistry student.


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    #20
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    johnl wrote: »
    I am far from a cop :)
    I meant that the police and gardaí tend to act first, based on their sense of right and wrong, and then try and connect it to the law after. Ever try asking a guard what law they're giving you hassle under? They usually back off fairly quickly.
    The guards will act as they want up until they might have to consider a case going to court, at which point they will start connecting things to legislation or just let you go.
    This has just been my experience.

    Yeah but you would imagine alot of seniors detectives would be involved in an operation as large as this - Intelligence operation it says in the editorial.


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    #21
    workaccount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭workaccount


    Neonlight wrote: »
    At the end of the day, drugs are drugs take them of the streets,the proceeds from the sale of the so called legal substance was probably eventually going to be used to buy some illegal stuff.And no doubt the people holding this **** were no doubt of criminal origins and not some nerdy third level chemistry student.

    This post is nothing but conjecture.


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    #22
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    BZP was made illegal in the UK a few weeks back, so were many other legal highs

    Anyway, imho it's horrible stuff... made for worming cattle

    http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.php?p=939038&postcount=41


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    #23
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    johnl wrote: »
    Ever try asking a guard what law they're giving you hassle under? They usually back off fairly quickly.

    Two words to get a bothersome guard off your back: Garda Ombudsman.
    Neonlight wrote: »
    At the end of the day, drugs are drugs

    I am always amazed when I hear someone utter this stupendously ignorant statement.


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    #24
    Banter Joe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭Banter Joe


    Neonlight wrote: »
    At the end of the day, drugs are drugs take them of the streets,the proceeds from the saleof the so called legal substance was probably eventually going to be used to buy some illegal stuff.And no doubt the people holding this **** were no doubt of criminal origins and not some nerdy third level chemistry student.

    What are you basing that on?

    Because somebody is supplying completely legal drugs, it implies there's a strong possibility that they are criminals.

    Based on that, theres "no doubt" that a lot of the pharmacists and drug companies in Ireland are, "no doubt", of criminal origins.


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    #25
    De Hipster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭De Hipster


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    They'll probably seize them for 'tests' and these 'tests' will take months and by the time they're ready to return them BZP will have been made illegal. Now I don't know where that leaves the guys who bought them. Do they get compensation since they had a legal product taken off them for no good reason?

    I'd like to see the receipt they would produce to quantify the claim from the tax payer & the additional revenue statements!


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    #26
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    On a similar note, was at an Eddie Haliwell gig over the weekend and the amount of legal, non bzp pills taken off people at it was crazy. In their defence, real pills could be swapped into the packaging of the shop bought though and in the case of the capsule based pills, powder swapped in and out.

    But the way the guards present were treating people was awful! Personally I was pulled aside and got the whole "do you find the law a joke" routine. So tempted to give the wrong answer........ :)


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    #27
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    johnl wrote: »
    Ever try asking a guard what law they're giving you hassle under? They usually back off fairly quickly.

    I tried that a few weeks ago. Unfortunately the guard knew it was 'public indecency' straight away. :mad:


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    #28
    johnl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 207 ✭✭johnl


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    But the way the guards present were treating people was awful! Personally I was pulled aside and got the whole "do you find the law a joke" routine. So tempted to give the wrong answer........ :)

    Not enough people do :)

    Cooperation is collaboration.


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    #29
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,561 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    So the upshot of this is many middle class people will have to go back to beastly common drug dealers instead of the friendly white chap with dreadlocks who "found himself in Goa" behind the counter of the local headshop? Expect some strongly worded letters to Madam over this.


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    #30
    Pace2008
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,587 ✭✭✭Pace2008


    And no-one will say anything, and nothing will be done, because no-one who cares enough really likes BZP. Another win for arbitrary policing.
    I hated BZP, but you and I know that's not the point. It was mushrooms before, it'll be methylone next - it's all part of an attempt to implement a blanket ban on getting high, poorly disguised as a move to protect the public.


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    #31
    JimmyCrackCorn!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭JimmyCrackCorn!


    Meh!

    Just take legal action for costs/damages.

    Wrongful search, police harassment....

    Sometimes you can fight the law and win. (like when your legally right)


    ----
    My personal opinions on BZP and other unlicensed/untested pharmaceuticals be it head-shops or health food stores is pretty dim.


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