Over 21's

dlofnep

I'm almost sure that it's illegal to have Over 21's in clubs. I'm 26 now, so I don't have problems anymore with this - but just out of curiosity, can anyone clarify if it's legal for a bouncer to stop you at the door on the premise of you being over 18, but under 21?

it's their business, they don't have to allow anyone in that they don't want to
if that includes under 21, that's their prerogative.

minidazzler

Well ROAR means they can tell anyone feck off, but texhnically it's discrimination based on age.

So it's weird.

dlofnep

bluewolf wrote: »

it's their business, they don't have to allow anyone in that they don't want to
if that includes under 21, that's their prerogative.

Yes, they can reject you - but rejection on the basis of age is ageist isn't it?

dlofnep

Any law students here able to confirm this?

Local-womanizer

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, they can reject you - but rejection on the basis of age is ageist isn't it?

Yes,but they dont have to tell you why you are not allowed in.If challenged they could just say they thought you had to much drink on you,or looked like trouble.

jape

Over 23's ftw

ShooterSF

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Yes,but they dont have to tell you why you are not allowed in.If challenged they could just say they thought you had to much drink on you,or looked like trouble.

Yes but places have signs up saying "Over 21" etc. the equivalent of telling a traveller they can't be served as they're full when there's a sign behind the bar saying "No Travellers."

TheZohanS

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm almost sure that it's illegal to have Over 21's in clubs. I'm 26 now, so I don't have problems anymore with this - but just out of curiosity, can anyone clarify if it's legal for a bouncer to stop you at the door on the premise of you being over 18, but under 21?

Is she hot?

JC 2K3

dlofnep wrote: »

Yes, they can reject you - but rejection on the basis of age is ageist isn't it?

By that logic, is being rejected on any basis not discrimination in some form?

ShooterSF

JC 2K3 wrote: »

By that logic, is being rejected on any basis not discrimination in some form?

Isn't ageism one of the legal protected types though, like gender, religion, race etc. I think there is 7, trying to find a link.

LiamD

It is not illegal. Section 25 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 allows a licence holder to set a minimum age for the provision of alcohol in their premises.

(4) If—

(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,

(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and

(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/...1/sec0025.html
http://www.hayes-solicitors.ie/news/...ecember_17.htm

Discrimination on other grounds e.g. race or sexual orientation is not permitted and licence holders can lose their licence if found guilty.

ShooterSF

LiamD wrote: »

It is not illegal. Section 25 of the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 allows a licence holder to set a minimum age for the provision of alcohol in their premises.




http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/...1/sec0025.html
http://www.hayes-solicitors.ie/news/...ecember_17.htm

Discrimination on other grounds e.g. race or sexual orientation is not permitted and licence holders can lose their licence if found guilty.

Is this just an exemption from age descrimination or is there such thing? If I owned a bar could I say 18-35's only?

buynow

There was a law introduced in 2000 called the Equal Status Act for all sorts of discrimination which made over 21's etc illegal, and pubs generally complied and everywhere was just over 18 for a bit.

However they amended it a few years later if I recall correctly to make an exemption for age discrimintion in pubs so setting min age is legal again.

TheZohanS

ShooterSF wrote: »

Is this just an exemption from age descrimination or is there such thing? If I owned a bar could I say 18-35's only?

Cheap booze and loud music would sort that out for you.

dlofnep

TheZohan wrote: »

Is she hot?

LOL, nothing gets by you does it.

buynow wrote: »

There was a law introduced in 2000 called the Equal Status Act for all sorts of discrimination which made over 21's etc illegal, and pubs generally complied and everywhere was just over 18 for a bit.

However they amended it a few years later if I recall correctly to make an exemption for age discrimintion in pubs so setting min age is legal again.

That's probably what it was - because I worked in a club in around 1999-2000 - so that's probably where I got it from.

If it is legal again, it's very strange that selective discrimination is allowed in modern day society.

IMO - I think that the over 21's thing isn't actually to have everyone over 21, but to just try keep the older looking 16 year olds out.

biko

If I owned a pub/club, no effing way 18's would get in.
23 FTW - go puke in someone else's corners students

Afaik you can't have an upper limit, to prevent Disco-Stu's

markok84

F*ck night clubs, durty dingy pubs that only serve stout are the way forward.

Theta

It used to be you could not set an age limit but last yeah or the year before when they change the law for opening times it gave them the right to restrict entry based on age!

tolosenc

dlofnep wrote: »

IMO - I think that the over 21's thing isn't actually to have everyone over 21, but to just try keep the older looking 16 year olds out.

'Zackly.

I'm 20. Respectably dressed, and somewhat sober - I've not had an issue getting into a 21s place.

Local-womanizer

ShooterSF wrote: »

Yes but places have signs up saying "Over 21" etc. the equivalent of telling a traveller they can't be served as they're full when there's a sign behind the bar saying "No Travellers."

Yup,it is a strange one.I suppose they dont see ageism as serious as whatever it is with travellers.But as pointed ou below,it isent illegle as it is the owners club/pub or whatever be it.Mind you I have never seen a Over 21 sign even though the club was over 21.That was controlled by the doorstaff with IDs.

I would be pissed off if I was refused just because of my age,I am a sensible drunk.

Shacklebolt

Magnus wrote: »

If I owned a pub/club, no effing way 18's would get in.
23 FTW - go puke in someone else's corners students

Afaik you can't have an upper limit, to prevent Disco-Stu's

So its acceptable to discriminate against younger people but not older people? Thats like having a law saying its legal to ban black people from your pub but not Asian people.

Local-womanizer

I know someone who was refused entry to a Dublin pub because he wasent Fillipino!Confused he just walked away and got drunk somewhere else!

buynow

I would say that the number of places that are over 21 or whatever is a lot less now than it was before the 2000 law. Maybe because I am passed the age to care about it I don't notice anymore, but in the 90s most of the pubs in any of the city centres were over 21. It was really annoying.

Once they were forced to let in the younger people and the world didn't end, I guess not as many put the age back up when It was allowed again.

Hagar

(4) If—

(a) the holder of a licence or other authorisation which permits the sale of intoxicating liquor adopts a policy of refusing to supply intoxicating liquor to any person below a specified age which exceeds 18 years,

(b) a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises, and

(c) the policy is implemented in good faith,

a refusal to serve intoxicating liquor to such a person shall not constitute discrimination on the age ground.

That lays our fairly clearly the position regarding the sale of alcohol but it doesn't anywhere mention the right to refuse admission to a certain age limit. A 20yr old should be admitted based on the quotation above as long as he makes no attempt to purchase alcohol.

AckwelFoley

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm almost sure that it's illegal to have Over 21's in clubs. I'm 26 now, so I don't have problems anymore with this - but just out of curiosity, can anyone clarify if it's legal for a bouncer to stop you at the door on the premise of you being over 18, but under 21?

The answer is in the question.

Thats why those golf pricks in Portmarnock can still refuse women members in the 21st centuary.

ashyle

ShooterSF wrote: »

Isn't ageism one of the legal protected types though, like gender, religion, race etc. I think there is 7, trying to find a link.

There's 9 grounds of discrimination, as well as the ones you mention theres sexual orientation, disabilty, family status, marital status and member of the travelling community.
The over21s thing is a bit ridiculous and probably illegal, but pubs and clubs usually have the disclaimer of right of admission resevered.

AckwelFoley

ashyle wrote: »

There's 9 grounds of discrimination, as well as the ones you mention theres sexual orientation, disabilty, family status, marital status and member of the travelling community.
The over21s thing is a bit ridiculous and probably illegal, but pubs and clubs usually have the disclaimer of right of admission resevered.

Then can you please use those same grounds of discrimination in my favour when drafting up a letter for me as to why im taking actions against the Girl guides as to why they refuse my persistant applications for membership.

Hagar

Just claim to be an adopted, partially sighted, trans gendered, lesbian, learning ability challenged, semi-autistic, dyslexic, traveler of mixed race and see if they have the guts to refuse you admission.

Show_me_Safety

while many places have an over 21s/23s policy i think they'll let ya in if they think you won't act the maggot. I've gone to a few places that were over 21s when i was 18/19 and i had my 21st in a place that was over 23s- although i was the youngest bar my 19 yr old sis and some of her friends. I don't really have friends as young as me- most are around 24ish so when we all go out they vouch for me!

Show_me_Safety

plus, i agree with this policy.

I much rather go somewhere that's 21s/23s that has an age group of sensible 20yo's+ rather than an 18's place with the age group of 16/17-19 yo's.

tolosenc

AFAIK, if a place charges admission, they can refuse you entry (much the same as a shopkeeper can refuse to sell you an item for no reason at all).

I have never been turned away from an over 21's/23's place. But most of the people I go out with are a few years older than me.

Bouncers often change their mind about what the age is if they don't like the look of you. This often happens when they see a bunch of irritating 18 year old first year students.

ShooterSF

I'm 25 btw so have little problem as far as getting served. I just don't like the idea of it. And I don't understand it. I worked in a nightclub that was on it's knees and quickly heading towards shutting down and tried multiple times to persuade the management to stop turning away perfectly good money in the pockets of 18-20 year olds. Each individual should be judged on their own merits. There are plenty of 18 year olds I know that are sounder than some of the lads my own age.
(Plus Jailbait = good )

MmmmmCheese

There's a pub in Limerick which sometimes only allows people with student ID in. I know it helps keep out the scumbags but some people just can't afford to go to college/ make a different career choice. Is this illegal?

In All Fairness

dlofnep wrote: »

Any law students here able to confirm this?

Yes

*sends bill*

MmmmmCheese

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

There's a pub in Limerick which sometimes only allows people with student ID in. I know it helps keep out the scumbags but some people just can't afford to go to college/ make a different career choice. Is this illegal?

That's absolutely ridiculous!

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

velvet room in sligo is over 23s last time i checked

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

There's a pub in Limerick which sometimes only allows people with student ID in. I know it helps keep out the scumbags but some people just can't afford to go to college/ make a different career choice. Is this illegal?

The student bars do that in sligo in the VERY busy nights and all during rag week. It does make since though, with 2 euro vodkas and 3 euro pints, it does attract a lot of "scum", which would drive a lot of students away. It was very annoying in envy in sligo for rag week 2006, one night they were only accepting id from IT Sligo, even though there are 2 colleges in sligo, also i had mates over from galway, we had a job to get in!

garyt24

Its at the discression of the pub/nightclub what age limit they have to enter....clubs normally do it because it makes it easier to refuse certain pple they dont like.. Im glasd they do cause there difference between an 18yr and 21yr old is a big difference

RMD

If they tell you no and you get the answer "over 21's tonight pal", that's discrimination.

From past experience, usual answer you'll get is "regulars only" if they're doing a 21+ policy, which isn't discrimination as they haven't given a discriminate fact for not allowing you in.

Theta

It was discrimination. Until they changed the law to allow pubs and clubs to decide on the age of admittance in 2006 I think.