AAI Litigation and Club Funds

Condo131

I spoke to somebody 'in the know' (don't want to give any hint of their identity) last night who said that there have been discussions wrt the costs of legal actions involving the AAI.

According to my source, the AAI, under it's constitution (I don't have a copy of the current one) can effectively raid Club coffers. I don't know if that is possible, but I would, under no circumstances whatsoever, not allow that to happen with my club.

Before anyone gets a rush of blood to the head and starts ranting on this one, what I'm asking is
a) Did anyone else hear anything along the same lines?
b) Does the AAI, under it's current constitution, have such authority
c) Surely the Limited Co. set up by the AAI (it was set up wasn't it? I stopped following that some time ago - got too confusing) is the only entity that might be liable?

Anyone else throw light on this one?

--amadeus--

Ooohhh this thread could get nasty.

Please, please, please keep this factual. Anything libellous will be deleted

RoyMcC

Don't know. But the really interesting follow-on question would be - are the ordinary members of an unincorporated club liable for that clubs debts :eek:

thirtyfoot

Condo131 wrote: »

I spoke to somebody 'in the know'

When a post starts with this in relation to something regarding the AAI then its usually a time to take cover as it probably depends on what side of the fence the person is lying on and what 'message' they are trying to put out:D

More than likely a spin being put out to scaremonger and if that is what it is then that person should ask themselves is putting something like that out in the best interests of the sport. If its a genuine fear on their behalf then ignore my rant in the previous sentence.

ChickenTikka

There was some previous discussion on this at:-

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61132654#post61132654

Hopefully what you say is not the case.

The constitution is on AAI website at:-

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/content/?page_id=6703

My assumption is that because club funds don't get reflected in AAI accounts, that they are legally seperate. I had a quick scan of Constituion before and don't see anything suggesting anything different. However, I'm not a legal person ... just my reading of it. It would be good to have a definite answer on this stuff. Maybe AAI can stick it into a Frequently Asked Questions on their website, not!

Earlier thread indicated that the association was not incorporated as a company yet. Don't know if it changes things regarding club funds if incorporated.

ChickenTikka

Interesting ... I just went into the Companies Registration website:-

http://www.cro.ie/search/

Enter the word "Athletic" and the list includes:-

Number 474499
Name ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION OF IRELAND LIMITED
Address
UNIT 19 NORTHWOOD COURT
NORTHWOOD BUSINESS CAMPUS
SANTRY
DUBLIN 9

Registered 26/08/2009

Condo131

Tingle wrote: »

When a post starts with this in relation to something regarding the AAI then its usually a time to take cover as it probably depends on what side of the fence the person is lying on and what 'message' they are trying to put out:D

More than likely a spin being put out to scaremonger and if that is what it is then that person should ask themselves is putting something like that out in the best interests of the sport. If its a genuine fear on their behalf then ignore my rant in the previous sentence.

Hi Tingle,
I'm afraid its a genuine fear. My club doesn't have huge assets, but this really put the wind up me.

All I'm asking is if anyone else got wind of this? Maybe I was 'thrown a wobbler' but I'd already been wondering who's going to pay for the current litigation the AAI is involved in ( I do NOT want to get into discussion on that.

As Amadeus said this could get nasty ..keep it factual. At the moment I have NO FACTS.

Is this a smokescreen that I've been given or is there a fire starting?

If nobody else has heard anything, it's probably a 'wobbler' and let's let the matter drop.

thirtyfoot

Condo131 wrote: »

Hi Tingle,
I'm afraid its a genuine fear. My club doesn't have huge assets, but this really put the wind up me.

All I'm asking is if anyone else got wind of this? Maybe I was 'thrown a wobbler' but I'd already been wondering who's going to pay for the current litigation the AAI is involved in ( I do NOT want to get into discussion on that.

As Amadeus said this could get nasty ..keep it factual. At the moment I have NO FACTS.

Is this a smokescreen that I've been given or is there a fire starting?

If nobody else has heard anything, it's probably a 'wobbler' and let's let the matter drop.

I'd say if you have a genuine fear you should contact the AAI and enquire. Maybe the head of Risk and Finance would be a good starting point. I'd say other clubs would also have a fear too.

Condo131

I don't want to do that . I don't think I could go that route, without revealing my contact and I don't want to do that. I may have another (indirect) route to ask though.

I've downloaded the constitution - doesn't appear to be anything obvious there and, under Art 4, clubs are only Affiliated, not members and, imho, I don't see how an affiliate can have any liability.

I also downloaded the Articles of Association and will look at these later, but I'd be dubious of clubs having any liability under this.

btw, I believe the UK body went belly-up a few years ago, as a result of litigation. Not relevant, but these things do happen.

IrishTrackFan

ChickenTikka wrote: »

Interesting ... I just went into the Companies Registration website:-

http://www.cro.ie/search/

Enter the word "Athletic" and the list includes:-

Number 474499
Name ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION OF IRELAND LIMITED
Address
UNIT 19 NORTHWOOD COURT
NORTHWOOD BUSINESS CAMPUS
SANTRY
DUBLIN 9

Registered 26/08/2009

It looks like the CLG move is proceeding. Under company law the board and finance and risk committee will have stricter obligations regarding managing the finances - this might be a burden right now given the outstanding legal situation - the danger is that AAI is trading recklessy if there is sufficient knowledge of impending costs for instance.
As to liability the CLG will definitely limit liability, but I am not sure AAI will get the benefit of this move as it happened after the current difficulties arose (but I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what the actual situation is in this respect). If the old unincorporated association rules apply then the Board can be held personally liable for any costs incurred due to negligence. Again without technical knowledge I would guess that any liability remaining would fall to individual members of the Association. Members could also sue the Board for negligence I would imagine. Would like to have some legal input on all this!

eltuerto

Mod Edit - unhelpful speculation. Please stay STRICTLY factual

Reaganomical

if aai incurs significant legal costs, the liability to pay these costs falls on the company. If the company has insufficient funds to cover it, the subscribers to the memorandum of association will be liable in a winding up to contribute up to the amount of their guarantee. I haven't read the memorandum for aai, but i would be very surprised if that guarantee amount is more than 1 euro. If there is still a shortfall, the creditors have no other avenue. They cannot seek repayment by the clubs or by us individual aai members. The risk however of the aai being wound up in the above set of circumstances however i guess could be regarded as credible.

--amadeus--

OK folks, sorry but I am going to lock this.

This is all pure speculation. I have enough professional experience in this area to know that this kind of thing is very complex and there are far too many posts here with "if..."

As Tingle suggests contacting the AAI directly and asking is probably the best route