T90 lnb/switch/wiring options

white_westie

Think this is best forum to post this.

Have asked on this topic before, but looking for more info, as summer was not as productive as I had hoped for.
Current setup is a Lidl dish on a temp mount with a modified lnb bracket with 4 lnbs on it pointing at 5E,13E,19E,28E. Have also swung dish around and got 5W for French channels.

Have only space for 1 dish, due to north facing back garden.

Looking at getting a Wavefrontier T90 dish with lnbs pointing at 5W, 1W, 5E, 13E, 19E, 28E.
No interest in football, but might try for another 2 in between East sats, giving a total of 8.
Want to feed 2 seperate locations in house with 2 feeds each for a sky+ type setup.
Will probably use 2 single tuner receivers in each location, with 1 pvr enabled - will look at dual tuner options later on.
Have a tm9100, echolink 777 and itgate at the moment.

All of the 6/8 lnb's will be dual or quads, but from here on I'm not sure.

a) for some reason quad lnbs seem to be cheaper than duals (narrow alps, smart titanium)
Any reason for this? Is there any technical reason not to use a quad if you are only using 2 outputs? signal loss or anything like that!

b) what types of switches would I need to wire them up?
Disecq switches can only handle 4 inputs, but I think EmpCentauri switches can do more - need to read the specs a bit more. The alternative I think is a multiswitch - again I think EmpCentauri do these, so would something like a 16in4out, or 2 pairs of 8in2out do me?
If using a multiswitch, do you have to use quatro lnbs, or can you use normal single/dual/quad's?
One problem I have is that the dish is away from the house, and there is no power available beside it - I am assuming that the Emp switches are all powered?

The setup might be a bit too ambitious, but I know some of you have a setup like this working, though I have not seen too many setups with dual/qual lnbs being used.

Would appreciate any comments/suggestions or pointers to relevant info on net.

WW

RimaNTSS

So, you are looking for some kind of universal system, which could be upgraded in the future!
You just set some maximum requirements of this system: not more than 10 LNBs and not more than 4 wires from antenna to the house.
To fulfill those requirements you need 10 (in the beginning less) Quad LNBs, 4 pieces 10in-1out DiseqC. DiseqC switches are all poveres from the LNB cable, so no need to have 220V near antenna.
I think Alps or Black Inverto Multiconnect LNBs are easier to mount to T90, especially if you wish to get signals from satellites with minimum spacing, for example 4,8*E-7*E-9*E.
Usually Quads are more expensive than singles and duals, but exceptions are possible.

white_westie

Rima

Thks for responding, and especially the attached diagram.
Your summary of what I would like is correct.
Did some more reading on the EmpCentauri site, and it clicked into place - I was'nt thinking of 1 switch per feed to house.
As regards the lnb's, was aware that Alps where thin enough to get 3degree spacing, but did'nt know about Inverto Blk edition.
Armed with this info, can now look more with more knowledge at web shops.
Once again thks again. WW

gtg60

white_westie wrote: »

a) for some reason quad lnbs seem to be cheaper than duals (narrow alps, smart titanium)
Any reason for this? Is there any technical reason not to use a quad if you are only using 2 outputs? signal loss or anything like that!

If you're looking on ebay you are probably seeing a lot of sky quad lnb's, they are cheap because a lot are stolen. Either way get 'proper' quad lnb's they will be worth the money.
If you look at like for like, quad's are dearer than twin's but only slightly.

white_westie wrote: »

b) what types of switches would I need to wire them up?
Disecq switches can only handle 4 inputs, but I think EmpCentauri switches can do more - need to read the specs a bit more. The alternative I think is a multiswitch - again I think EmpCentauri do these, so would something like a 16in4out, or 2 pairs of 8in2out do me?
If using a multiswitch, do you have to use quatro lnbs, or can you use normal single/dual/quad's?

You can get 8, 10 or 16 way DiSEqC switches, I have an EMP 8 way (for the moment).
Looking at your proposed setup there will be a few potential problems.
Lets start with the expense, four 8 way switches will cost you 100 Euro, four 16 way approx 200 euro BUT this is a lot cheaper than going the multiswitch route, a single multiswitch (for each Quattro lnb) will cost you from 65 euro up AND multiswitches will need to be powered so you'll run the four cables from each lnb into the house (that'll be a lot of cable!).

Next is DiSEqC switching, will the receivers you have be capable of switching 8 or 16 way??

I don't think single tuner receivers is the way to go either, it's fine as a stop gap but it's cumbersome and the WAF is extremely low

BTW, don't get a T90 and have any less than 8 lnb's on it! They are capable of so much more, 16 is a much better number

And have a good think about your TV watching (and recording needs), spend a lot of time planning and researching and I promise it will pay dividends, do you really need to be able to record from each sat and still be able to watch each and every sat? There isn't that much FTA english stuff up there. I'll bet (especially if you're married) that 3 out of 4 recordings per week will be FTA 28E channels.

Good luck!

Greenman

gtg60 wrote: »

BTW, don't get a T90 and have any less than 8 lnb's on it! They are capable of so much more, 16 is a much better number

Especially if you mod it.:):):)

white_westie

gtg60 and greenman, thks for your input.

@gtg60
The lnbs (definitely not for sly and not on fleabay) I saw where on a german site which I cannot find now, but it was like 6euro cheaper for the quad than the twin.
Your right about diseqc switches being cheaper than multiswitches, and no power requirements either. The ability to watch and record from each sat position in both house locations is more of a statement of intent, and I would probably get away with 3 feeds (2+1). The use of single tuners is because I have them - 2 of which have working pvr functions.

@greenman
Have seen the pictures of your setup, and read your various threads (and the other t90 pioneers) on different sites. It was the description of bending the lnb arm to the right curve, and making the adjustable lnb holders which really caught my interest in a t90.
I might never fill it with 16+ lnbs, but I like the idea of trying to extend the range at its edges.

The t90 is something to play with, and getting a number of lnbs to work, is all part of the fun.

Once again, thks for taking the time to respond.
WW

Eurorunner

white_westie wrote:

It was the description of bending the lnb arm to the right curve, and making the adjustable lnb holders which really caught my interest in a t90.

Can you elaborate on this as have never heard of it? Have heard of people making their own holders (the standard ones are rubbish) but not about bending lnb arm to right curve...

gtg60

Eurorunner wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this as have never heard of it? Have heard of people making their own holders (the standard ones are rubbish) but not about bending lnb arm to right curve...

I think what he means is that when you make a new lnb holder and bracket that you bend the new bar (which the holders attach to) to the same curve as the original lnb mounting arm.

white_westie

Guys, think I am allowed post links to other forums - see below.

But, look for posts by our friend 'RimaNTSS' and another member called 'hakon'

http://www.satellites.co.uk/satellite/picture-members-setups-general-satellite-installations/114236-multifeed-wft-90-some-modification-done.html

RimaNTSS

Eurorunner wrote: »

Can you elaborate on this as have never heard of it? Have heard of people making their own holders (the standard ones are rubbish) but not about bending lnb arm to right curve...

Hi! I think it is possible to make completely new bar which holds all LNBs. By now I have such stineless steel bar which is already curved, but to make sure it has right curve ans stable enough I attached it to the original bar. In the future, if I have enough time, maybe, replace all bars with new, modified holder. I also think that those 2 plastic things, bar holders should be replaced with more stable ones, made from staneless steel.

Greenman

RimaNTSS wrote: »

but to make sure it has right curve ans stable enough I attached it to the original bar.

Rimant how did they bend it?

RimaNTSS

Greenman wrote: »

Rimant how did they bend it?

They have a machine like this http://www.biznesshop.com/tovar/trubogibprokat/trugib.jpg Not exact model, but similar

Greenman

RimaNTSS wrote: »

They have a machine like this http://www.biznesshop.com/tovar/trubogibprokat/trugib.jpg Not exact model, but similar

I have my stainless steel bar just need that machine for a little while LOL. Thanks for the answer.:):):)

Greenman

Finally got the T-90 modded. ATM I've 28.2,19,16,13,10,7,0.8 East and 15 West.

This is a dish with main interest in feeds.

Total cost €50, very pleased.:) :)

logger

Hi Greenman

Just preparing my own at the minute, similar range, 28.8E -> 19.2W, centred on 4.8E, however just using the plastic clips supplied, thus my interest in your reasons for the mods. Later I hope to go from 28.8E -> 27.5W with the dish and will definitely need the mods then.

Greenman wrote: »

Finally got the T-90 modded. ATM I've 28.2,19,16,13,10,7,0.8 East and 15 West.

Why did you not go with supplied bar for these feeds, well within range of it. are there issues with the plastic holders that come with the dish, that we should be aware of when setting up ?

Greenman wrote: »

Total cost €50, very pleased.

What cost €50, Bar, + LNB Brackets or just the bar. Have seen these sorts of lnb bars on other modified T90 dishes, can you post a link to possible products that you have found to be suitable for this sort of mod.

Lastly have you tried for any satellites further than 24 deg off centre yet ? if so how was the signal at that offset.

Heavy dish, you must have had fun getting it up on the side of your shed.

Regards

Logger

Eurorunner

@logger: the quality of the plastic bar is poor. Also, if you screw the lnbs in place, you will never be able to adjust them if you were to move the dish to another location. For that reason, I've not fixed them in place - just used cable ties to hold them in position.

logger

Eurorunner wrote: »

@logger: the quality of the plastic bar is poor. Also, if you screw the lnbs in place, you will never be able to adjust them if you were to move the dish to another location. For that reason, I've not fixed them in place - just used cable ties to hold them in position.

Thanks for the tip, hadn't considered issue of moving, which I will be doing after I get it set up however only up the garden, so fingers crossed should be ok. However your pint is of concern also if I want to move LNB's onto another satellite.

RimaNTSS

Hi T90 family!
I have made some additional mods on my T90:

Greenman

logger wrote: »

Why did you not go with supplied bar for these feeds, well within range of it. are there issues with the plastic holders that come with the dish, that we should be aware of when setting up ?

When I got the the plastic holders that came with the dish I did not like them as adjusting them was not precise, I then came across the T-90 mods so I went with that. If you know a friendly engineering shop you too can do the same.

logger wrote: »

What cost €50, Bar, + LNB Brackets or just the bar.

The bar cost €2.50
The LNB holders cost €3.50 each got 10.
For someone to make and supply the pieces that attach the bar to the rail was €2.50 each.
I also bought bought some stainless steel bolts costing €3.

Hope this answers your questions. Anymore fire ahead.:)
BTW the bar and attaching pieces are in stainless steel.