Yes to the EU and No to the NAMA ripoff!

MrMicra

In my opinion NAMA is not a terrible idea, but the idea of Fianna Fail setting the 'haircut' terrifies me. The nightmare scenario is massive tax increases to bail out the Galway tent donors and valuations for worthless land that are secret and massive and force another property bubble. (Even from negative equity I can see how bad that would be for Ireland).

The EU has clarified how states may intervene to help their banking sectors.
Parts of the proposed legislation are clearly illegal under EU law. The Comission has clarified what is acceptable state aid in the current crisis (thank God for the EU by the way).

The full document as a PDF:
http://tinyurl.com/lgaexo

The full document:
http://tinyurl.com/mpf7yl

The Press Release:
http://tinyurl.com/meq8ab

If you look at the press release (which is all that I have done) it requires:
"full transparency and disclosure of impairments, which has to be done prior to government intervention" this has not taken place at all the level of impairment is a commercial secret and was treated as such by Judge Cooke (quite correctly I am certain) when he examined the documents in Liam Carroll's second bid for an examiner.

The commission do allow for:
"valuation based on real economic value (rather than market value), implemented by independent experts and certified by bank supervisors"

Part of the NAMA bill at the moment explicitly keeps the mechanism for valuation of impairments secret. This provision will be illegal.

The commission also demand:
"validation by the Commission of the valuation of the assets"
"adequate remuneration for the State, at least equivalent to the remuneration of State capital and coverage of the losses incurred from the valuation of the assets at real-economic-value by the bank benefiting from the scheme"

The EU will save Ireland from Fianna Fail. The Commission will make a massive overpayment in the way that is currently being talked about impossible.

Yes to the EU
Yes to Lisbon
No to a Builders Bailout!

ei.sdraob

i dont like the idea of NAMA either

but NAMA and Lisbon dont belong in same sentence

Martin 2

There are 4 threads on NAMA on the first page alone in the Irish Economy section of Politics would it not make more sense to post this there minus the Lisbon stuff of course. As others have said it's not really a Lisbon issue

MrMicra

My apologies if necessary please move the thread, however Lisbon is about the legitimacy of the european project by increasing pooled democracy to match pooled powers. As such it is in one sense a vote for the European project and against a realist 'europe of the nations' attitude.

I am concerned about NAMA and I will be voting YES to Lisbon. Not because the two are directly connected (this commission decision has been made before the Lisbon treaty has been ratified) but rather because I see European integration as a way of changing our own society which suffers from a type of cosy quasi corruption that afflicts many small countries.

The EU has the ability to say 'wait a second that's not a good idea' and while the Irish people are sovereign it is good for me as an Irish citizen for a power centre to exist which can ask my government to reconsider unwise decisions and receive a respectful hearing.

Euro_Kraut

MrMicra wrote: »

My apologies if necessary please move the thread, however Lisbon is about the legitimacy of the european project by increasing pooled democracy to match pooled powers. As such it is in one sense a vote for the European project and against a realist 'europe of the nations' attitude.

I am concerned about NAMA and I will be voting no to Lisbon. Not because the two are directly connected (this commission decision has been made before the Lisbon treaty has been ratified) but rather because I see European integration as a way of changing our own society which suffers from a type of cosy quasi corruption that afflicts many small countries.

The EU has the ability to say 'wait a second that's not a good idea' and while the Irish people are sovereign it is good for me as an Irish citizen for a power centre to exist which can ask my government to reconsider unwise decisions and receive a respectful hearing.

I'm confused. Do you mean that you will vote YES to Lisbon?

MrMicra

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I'm confused. Do you mean that you will vote YES to Lisbon?

Yes I will be voting yes to Lisbon is that unclear? a degree of oversight by the Commission is good for Ireland. It is not lost sovereignty it is pooled sovereignty.

Euro_Kraut

MrMicra wrote: »

Yes I will be voting yes to Lisbon is that unclear?

You have edited it now so its a lot clearer.

Macroom Man

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i dont like the idea of NAMA either

but NAMA and Lisbon dont belong in same sentence

The supporters of NAMA are also urging a "Yes" vote for Lisbon.

Het-Field

My vote in favour of Lisbon, is NOT an endorsement of Brian Cowen, Mary Coughlan, John Gormely, or the political establishment.

I had my say at the Locals, and Euros, and I will have my say at then next General Election, and I will voice my feelings about our inept excuse of a Government, and our embarressment of a Leader. However, I will not hold my convictions vis-a-vis the EU to ransom over my contempt for Cowen.

is_that_so

Macroom Man wrote: »

The supporters of NAMA are also urging a "Yes" vote for Lisbon.

FG and Labour support Lisbon but not NAMA. Anyone using NAMA as a reason to vote No deserves to be disenfranchised for life. As has been posted ad nauseum on this forum, vote on the actual issues.