Narcissistic Personality Disorder

lynsalot

Hi guys
I've recently started getting to know someone at work and he told me he suffers from narcissistic personality disorder, or thinks he does. When he has been to the doc, they've not given him any answers. i'm confused. I'd like to help him but i'm not sure how I can. Has anyone any experience of the disorder and any advice pls?
thanks

Morag

It;s not up to you to help him, he needs to go and get a shrink to say if he as a personality disorder or not.

AMK

You cannot help somebody with NPD nor is it up to you to do so. The person must do so himself.

Er why is he telling random person he works with about his private mental health issues.

renraw

If you're his friend OP, then fair play to you for showing empathy for him and showing your making an effort to understand. Any kind of mental disorder with any person is somebody that needs friend. Well done!

Overheal

lynsalot wrote: »

Hi guys
I've recently started getting to know someone at work and he told me he suffers from narcissistic personality disorder, or thinks he does. When he has been to the doc, they've not given him any answers. i'm confused. I'd like to help him but i'm not sure how I can. Has anyone any experience of the disorder and any advice pls?
thanks

I agree with the other posters, but also, I feel like I should point out the irony of sapping sympathy from your co-workers because you think you're narcissistic - :rolleyes:

Its not your problem - and frankly - you could just be exacerbating his problem by giving him the attention.

missmatty

Overheal wrote: »

I feel like I should point out the irony of sapping sympathy from your co-workers because you think you're narcissistic - :rolleyes:

Yeah I lolled at that alright :pac: I have a friend who I'm convinced has this but I would never say it to her. I don't think she would believe it anyway.

There is nothing you can do for this person really, and tbh it does sound like they are looking for attention.

LegacyUser

I find it bizarre that someone randomly tells a work colleague that they think they have a Personality Disorder let alone that they have NPD.
The fact that he did, most likely mean he doesn’t have NPD. By the nature of the disorder people who have it are highly unlikely to believe or admit to any kind of flaws due to their sense of superiority.

And if he does have NPD you’d do best to keep your distance. Their only are interested in people that boost their ego.

Susannahmia

There is no real way to cure someone with a personality disorder. Just like you can never really change your personality. One can use therapy to help them to disguise it however. Its a disorder of the personality with thought patterns and behavior which become fixed in early childhood.

To be totally honest with you I would personally stay well away from someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. They tend to be toxic and lacking all empathy. They will do anything for attention and will become enraged and spiteful if they are not the center of attention.

lynsalot

With regards to me being a stranger, I've worked closely with him for the past 2 months and gotten to know him quite well. He told me this one night because I asked how he was as he seemed down. I have depression but I'm on medication and it's turned my entire life around. I want to be able to help him but I don't understand the condition.

We can hardly just discard ppl just because they have this condition. He has shown me empathy a few times. This is why I want him to go to the doctor because I hope he's ok. He's agreed to go to the doc which is great. I just wondered if anyone else had friends in this situation and any advice on how to help them. I believe support groups by their nature don't help.

Dudess

Maybe he doesn't have narcissistic personality disorder, maybe he's just extremely self-obsessed?

Susannahmia

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is not a mental illness like depression (which I suffer from and understand btw) it defined as something drastically different. It is essentially a personality type and a way of being and seeing the world which is not regarded as the norm for the rest of society to a level that it causes the individuel to alienate himself and potentially others.

A personality disorder is a pattern of deviant or abnormal behavior that the person doesn't change even though it causes emotional upsets and trouble with other people at work and in personal relationships. It is not limited to episodes of mental illness, and it is not caused by drug or alcohol use, head injury, or illness. There are about a dozen different behavior patterns classified as personality disorders by DSM-IV. All the personality disorders show up as deviations from normal in one or more of the following:
(1) cognition -- i.e., perception, thinking, and interpretation of oneself, other people, and events;
(2) affectivity -- i.e., emotional responses (range, intensity, lability, appropriateness);
(3) interpersonal functions;
(4) impulsivity.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

HalloweenJack

I'd be very surprised if someone with NPD went to a doctor with worries over their own behaviour. Narcissists are more concerned with how people react to them and would be more likely to tell someone that they (other people) have something wrong.

If he's been to a doctor and the doctor didn't diagnose him with it, then maybe he doesn't have it, although second guessing a professional in a field you may have no knowledge about is narcissistic.

IIRC, the DSM-IV has a list of nine traits that narcissists have. If you have five out of the nine traits, then you can be classified as a narcissist. Again, I'd say that if the doctor didn't believe him to have NPD, then he doesn't.

Empathy and admitting to others that he has a disorder does not seem to be narcissistic behaviour. Although, if he claimed to be suffering from a different type of disorder, it could be seen as attention-seeking which is a narcissistic trait.

Anyway, I'm going off on a tangeant. Once more, if he's already been to the doctor and wasn't diagnosed with it then I'd assume he doesn't have it. Lots of people will convince themselves they have some sort of disorder just been reading up on it on Wikipedia or whatever. Getting looked at by a doctor is the best form of diagnosis.

LegacyUser

hmmmm if he is showing you empathy that doesn't sound much like narcissism. by definition they are self-obsessed.

why does he think he has this ? what are his issues that make him think this ?

Personality disorders are notoriously hard to treat

lynsalot

Hi everyone,

He hasn't been to the doctor yet. He feels he is better than other people and can't relate the others (according to him) In fairness he is a little strange. We get on because we've the same sense of humour but I do notice he talks about himself a lot. He can be very self absorbed and says things that make you think he's full of himself. He doesn't warm to ppl very easily but mostly he's just confused. I wish I could help but at the same time I'm afraid I'm feeding his self obsession.

I'm taking a bit of a back step until he sees a doctor. I don't really know why i'm so bothered but he is a nice person and I hope he sorts his stuff out. It's just when he brings this stuff up I haven't a clue how to help. As I said I suffered with depression (Does it ever go away? Are u always a sufferer?) but i'm on medication now and very seldom have a BAD day. So I know how life changing it is to get the right help.

Maybe i'm mad trying to help someone I don't know that well but that's me. I like to help people. I hate seeing people suffer. I'm paranoid now that he knows this and is using me to feed his narcissism lol... i'm spending waaay too much time worrying about this.

John5

As far as i'm aware, sometimes people with possible NPD can be refered to go and see a psychiatrist by their GP. A psychiatrist can diagnose and help people with this disorder.

The Corinthian

The diagnosis, let alone self-diagnosis, of such personality disorders is a very dubious process. To begin with there are schools of thought that will not see narcissism as a disorder in itself, but as a trait common to many other disorders (e.g. histrionic or anti-social personality disorders) and even those who will see it as a disorder in itself will ascribe levels of severity, from mild or borderline through to malignant narcissism (which is effectively borderline sociopathy).

In reality, even if he were to suffer from such a disorder, traits such as lack of empathy, egocentricism, manipulative behaviour could describe a lot of disorders and personality types (in milder cases) that are not even disorders. Indeed, everyone is to some degree or other narcissistic - self esteem is not necessarily a bad thing, after all - in moderation.

If he really suspects that he is suffering from such a disorder, he is better off checking with a professional as if he is suffering from any disorder any self-diagnosis will be coloured by his own projected self image, rather than who he really is.

skooterblue

This guy needs professional help, a good friend of mine's girl friend got mixed up with one of these narcissists. This guy left a trail of destruction after him. the girl split with her bf, they had so much going for them.

Turn right around and put as much distance between himself and yourself, for the sake of your sanity, job and personal life. this prick has destroyed Relationships, property investment, exams, marriages, split families make your decision. If you see trouble run dont entertain it.

Overheal

John5 wrote: »

As far as i'm aware, sometimes people with possible NPD can be refered to go and see a psychiatrist by their GP. A psychiatrist can diagnose and help people with this disorder.

True. A psychiatrist will be able to verify whether he really is narcissistic or something else, and will be able to ascertain whether he needs to invest in long term therapy or otherwise. I suggest you tell him to book an appointment. After all you wouldnt skip a doctor and diagnose yourself with Pneumonia when you probably had a cold. Similarly he can't wikiqualify himself with narcissism no more than I can wikiqualify myself with SAD

RealEstateKing

yet another one of those makey-uppy diseases that the good fellows at Pfizer invent every couple of years and just happen to have the medication for.

Like Restless Leg Syndrome (otherwise known as 'drinking too much coffee and not taking excercise'), Attention Deficit Disorder ('Otherwise known as 'being bored ****less by school') and Social Anxiety Disorder otherwise known as 'being shy'.

Xiney

Unhelpful posting will earn you an infraction or a ban from Personal Issues.

When you come back with a PhD in Psychiatry and the decades of experience that the scientists who study human pathopsycology have, then we can talk about your "beliefs".

Ta,

Xiney

Darthhoob

RealEstateKing wrote: »

yet another one of those makey-uppy diseases that the good fellows at Pfizer invent every couple of years and just happen to have the medication for.

Like Restless Leg Syndrome (otherwise known as 'drinking too much coffee and not taking excercise'), Attention Deficit Disorder ('Otherwise known as 'being bored ****less by school') and Social Anxiety Disorder otherwise known as 'being shy'.

giving a good example of a narcissitic there :pac: ...your average daily mail reader :rolleyes:


OP i'd try and get the guy to go see a mental health professional, like a psychiatrist....he doesn't seem like he has NPD to me, but i am not an expert....nor is a GP/doctor....and there could very have a mental issue that needs treatment/counselling.

poss

RealEstateKing wrote: »

yet another one of those makey-uppy diseases that the good fellows at Pfizer invent every couple of years and just happen to have the medication for.

Like Restless Leg Syndrome (otherwise known as 'drinking too much coffee and not taking excercise'), Attention Deficit Disorder ('Otherwise known as 'being bored ****less by school') and Social Anxiety Disorder otherwise known as 'being shy'.

^ Somehow, i think a qualified GP or psychiatrist's diagnosis of what disorder somebody is unfortunate enough to have, shouldn't have the piss taken out of it.

Give me a qualified medical opinion, rather than a posters 'opinion' on boards.ie.

flix1

away fast...and don't look back! If its empathy he wants...he can pay a professional, if his attention he wants...he can do karoke...I'm being brutally honest

Jack B. Badd

On a purely anecdotal front, I have a close relative who ticks a significant number of the boxes on the NPD/DSM-IV list. From my experience with them and from what I've read on NPD, I find it unlikely that someone who qualifies as NPD would be capable of identifying their own condition.

Dealing with this person is a draining experience at the best of times, they are incapable of true empathy and their view of reality is, quite frankly, warped. They are also frequently and unpredictably violent - I myself have experience this first-hand as a child.

If it were me, and someone told me that they believed that they had NPD, I'd run a mile - just my own reaction, not necessarily right. I do not believe I would gain anything positive from a person with NPD and due to the nature of the disorder they wouldn't either.

RandolphEsq

It appears that he has proclaimed his disorder to you in the hope you 'sympathise' and give him the attention he craves. It is just a game to him. Stay away!

The Corinthian

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

I find it unlikely that someone who qualifies as NPD would be capable of identifying their own condition.

Unlikely, but as will all the personality disorders, is not unknown. Of course, knowing that they have the disorder does not mean they want to be 'cured', only that they can better deal with the social disadvantages associated with it or hide it. This is why psychiatrists will tend to stop doing therapy with individuals with ASPD, as the therapy simply serves to improve their 'skills'.

They are also frequently and unpredictably violent - I myself have experience this first-hand as a child.

Violent tendencies is not really a hallmark of NPD, but of ASPD.

In reality though, those who claim they have such a disorder don't really in reality.

LegacyUser

There are some misconceptions in this thread. Contrary to popular belief, people with NPD do not have a massive ego at all, quite in the contrary. Their ego is extremely fragile, and they find it very hard to keep a balanced sense of self-confidence. One moment, they feel they are totally above the rest of us, but the very next minute, some minor comment can make them feel utterly worthless. Naturally, the latter state is nothing anyone desires, but because of NPD, these people cannot find a natural balance in and by themselves. The need for attention is their means of getting back on top of it, so to say. They put others down as to not be down themselves (where they are secretly convinced they "belong").

I know this from my younger cousin who was diagnosed several years ago and underwent psychotherapy. She is one of the most empathic people I know, but she used to be extremely insecure and very defensive - she would tend to consider the most harmless remarks as an attack on her etc. Depending on the people she was dealing with, she turned verbally aggressive or withdrew entirely.

What is true, however, is that people with NPD would certainly not diagnose themselves. You can imagine that the diagnosis can seriously shake their self-confidence - not least because they feel they're portrayed as these totally self-absorbed, cold-hearted, and mean people that many posters on here would have you believe. Yeah, they're self-absorbed, but precisely not because they think so much of themselves. Once they do accept the diagnosis, they can actually be treated. It won't go away, but my cousin has become much more naturally confident, outgoing, and trusting. She's told me she has learned to reflect situations in a way of reasoning with herself ("hang on a sec, they're probably not out to get me, they have no reason to") and see things from a different point of view. Lol, I actually really value her advice these days re my relationship as I find her almost shockingly perceptive!

Having said that, my cousin's therapist suggested that her father (i.e. my uncle) suffers from malignant NPD, which is more common in men and indeed a far more aggressive type and even more difficult if not impossible to treat. I don't remember much of my uncle and my cousin doesn't talk about him (she broke contacts with him when we were still children, parents were divorced), but he certainly had a nasty sense of "humor". Apparently, his NPD is the likely cause of my cousin's NPD.

My advice would be: tread carefully. If he is indeed suffering from NPD - and I stress the *suffering*, he will seek professional help - and soon - because he simply needs it. He may have the condition but be unwilling to deal with it and just use it as a means of getting attention to keep his ego somewhat stable, though, just like some posters have suggested. I think the only way of making sure he doesn't do the latter is to categorically refuse to act as some sort of therapist. Don't entertain him that way. He'll need to sort his issues out on his own. If he's serious, he'll understand that. So if you feel strong enough about him, see where it takes you, but make sure to not act as his ego-support system. That might damage you and will certainly not help him.

The Corinthian

Careful wrote: »

There are some misconceptions in this thread.

I know this from my younger cousin who was diagnosed several years ago and underwent psychotherapy. She is one of the most empathic people I know, but she used to be extremely insecure and very defensive - she would tend to consider the most harmless remarks as an attack on her etc.

You may be having a few misconceptions yourself. Those with NPD have low empathy, not high.

A good description of what lack of empathy means can be found here.

LegacyUser

With all due respect, I mentioned in the sentence just before that she underwent psychotherapy. It lasted almost four years, and yes, after a lot of hard work, believe it or not, she is indeed extremely empathetic. She may be an exception, but it seems the very fact she went through the therapy makes her an exception.

The Corinthian

Or misdiagnosed.

dreadlocks

Saying that you've this disorder is a nice front to talk about yourself all the time and dismiss anyone who tries to tell you to shut up. Tell him to get a professional pyschiatric opinion about it instead of diagnosing himself. You come across as a pretty nice person for being patient and understanding with him when others would have distanced themselves from him.