Class split

anamcarame

Hi, just looking for some feed back on the following.
My son has just gone into 4th class. There are 25 students in his class which has always been a real advantage as he does have a few difficulties with learning. He has informed me that there are now 35 in his class as the 5th class has been split between 4th and 6th. I am now really concerned as this particular class has many issues and some children with behavioural problems who do not have SNA's assogned to them so it all falls on the responsibility of the teacher.

We, as parents have not been informed about this change which I am disgusted at, to be honest. The school took in extra pupils over the last few years inorder to eliminate split classes and to get a bigger allocation of teachers in order for the principal to become a walking principal.

Surely if they have to resort to splitting a class and bring the numbers to over 3 the principal should be teaching this class? Is the 30 pupils per class as recommended in the TUI guidlines applicable to primary schools too?

Why on earth would a rteacher be prepared to take on a class on 25 kids and an extra 10 from a higher class especially if the 5th class has difficulties?

I am not sure what I should do about this situation. I am really concerned for my son. He thrivied last year as the class was small enough for his teacher to implement some stratgies for him and give him some extra help.
I feel he is going to fall very far behind as he has also told me that since going back to school (On Thur) his new teacher has been shouting and giving out to the 5th class all the time. Not the best start. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am reluctant to approach the principal regarding this until I am well prepared and informed.

overmantle

The Government moved the goalposts on staffing this year so it's not really fair to blame the school about decisions they made 3 years ago. As parents, we are all concerned about our children, understandably so. Two of mine were moved into mixed classes a couple of years ago but have not suffered. The one it's hardest on is the teacher. There is more planning and work required. The first few days/weeks, the teacher is trying to establish a routine, with every class so, see how things are by the end of September. You can always ask to meet with the teacher then and both the teacher and your son will have had the opportunity to settle in and get to know one another.

anamcarame

thanks for your feedback overmantle. While I think this is a disgraceful situation at no time did I blame the school. I am very informed as to how the government has implemented educational cuts and their effects. I would like to know if the TUI guideline apply to primary and post primary or just one.

I do think teachers should not be accepting this situation. If they just keep their heads down and get on with it they are defeated. How else are the government to know the extent of these cuts if no one stands up and highlights that 35 in one clas is not acceptable.

I do also feel that as these cuts are so severe Principals of some smaller schools should be back teaching. Even on a part time basis. Surely any principal would want the best for their sudents and teachers.

I don't accept the one it is hardest on is the teacher at all. I do think it is making their jobs harder and they have extra work to do but hey we are all in that boat these days. It is the kids who will suffer in the end not the teacher. The teacher is an adult and trained to teach. They have their life time experiences to help them to adapt to the situation. The children are there to learn, they cannot be expected to adapt to this situation when they have not been given the chance to develop these skills.

If children are in an enviornment where there is disruption and noise while they are supossed to be learning it will have a negative effect. No teacher could possibly disagree with this. While the running of the school is important I am sure some jobs can be put of in order to teach a class with no teacher. They are the priority.

E.T.

anamcarame: Teachers and parents held marches and protests all around the country last year to protest about the increase in class sizes - it was in all the newspapers and on the news too! The protests were completely unsuccessful and when strike action was threatened over the issue then the focus was thrown on our "cushy" jobs instead.

If your child's school took in a lot of extra pupils to get a new teacher (which is why the principal is now a walking principal) then they probably got totally messed over with the decrease in teacher numbers last year. The reason the principal can't just start teaching a class again is that if they did then the school would have to lose a teacher from another class - a walking principal is only assigned when there are a certain number of teachers.

If you are very concerned about your child's progress in a large class then there is a lot you can do yourself - get in contact with both the class teacher and learning support teacher and request a meeting to find out what's being done in school, and how you can support this at home. I know from my own class that the children who make more progress in learning support are those who are prepared to work with myself and the learning support teacher.

To be honest, most people have been aware that for the last 2 years split classes are becoming very much the norm, even in larger schools. Your child's school should really have sent home notice of the class split, out of courtesy, but there isn't really anything they can do if numbers mean classes have to be split. Any teacher will tell you there are pros and cons for split classes, but when it comes to it, we do as much as possible to try and keep one level classes. A split class doesn't mean disruption and noise, I've taught split classes for years, and I've also seen schools on teaching practice where one level classes were far noisier and more disruptive!

anamcarame

If your child's school took in a lot of extra pupils to get a new teacher (which is why the principal is now a walking principal) then they probably got totally messed over with the decrease in teacher numbers last year. The reason the principal can't just start teaching a class again is that if they did then the school would have to lose a teacher from another class - a walking principal is only assigned when there are a certain number of teachers.


Thanks for explainming that. It just thought it was bizzare that they are short a teacher and there is one there not teaching.

I do know about the marchs last earlier this yr as I also marched and petitioned, to no avail.

With regard to my child, he is fortune enough to get some resource teaching. However, this has also been cut back.

It seems there is no solution to this situation.

In my opinion

Split classes are not always a bad thing, in fact children perform better in a multigrade classroom.

byhookorbycrook

I know you have been on the marches etc, but many parents weren't and saw them as teachers giving out again. It is now that they will see the impact, as languages teachers and SNAs are cut too and time with a learning support teacher is like gold.

My first class in the 80s was 39 junior infants. I can say in hindsight that I kept control and the books got "done" but many many children were left behind. This is what we are heading back to,there are talks of the ratios going up again.People say oh, sure what's the difference between one child being added on, but forget that if a school loses a teacher the 28/29 children have to be split between other teachers so in a three teacher school going to a two teacher it could be an extra 15 children poer teacher.

BoozyBabe

A few people have touched on this & I just wanted to add the same.
Op, this is not directed at you, as you seem well informed.

But, as said, when teachers tried to protest over the cuts, (to protect the children) they just got abuse hurled at them. 'Trying to protect their cushy jobs', 'there's the teachers moaning again', 'what are they complaining about, sure they have it easy', 'they're so far removed from reality, if they were in my situation they'd have something to complain about'.
I'm not even qualified yet, & the amount of comments like that I heard when I tried to explain why teachers were protesting. My explanations fell on deaf ears.

But yes, now, when it's practically too late, people are starting to realise why teachers were protesting, & are now seeing how badly the education cutbacks are going to affect them & their children.
It's just a pity parents didn't have the necessary foresight when the teachers needed their support.

I'm sorry to hear your story, but I'm certain it's now being repeated up & down the country, & the true effects of the cutbacks are now being felt.

overmantle

TUI guidelines have nothing to do with primary schools. There are several primary school classes around the country (mixed and straight) with over 30 pupils- including those of my own children.
Yes, it is the teacher it is hard on as it takes more planning and organisation but it can work very well. I have spoken to parents who were opposed to the notion of mixed classes but were happy at the end of the year when they had been through the process. It doesn't work well in all cases as much depends on the organisational ability of the teacher and the back up support within the school, as well as from home.
I had to smile when I read about teachers accepting this situation and keeping their heads down. I spoke in many fora about the impact of education cuts at primary level and that parents would not begin to see the impact until the autumn. When teachers tried to speak out they were castigated and ridiculed by many. I could not believe some of the anger I read from parents on rollercoaster.ie giving out that teachers should shut up and be grateful to have a job.
Many parents were very understanding but I wonder if/when the education cuts hit home fully, will those parents who castigated teachers for trying to fight the cuts realise the error they made?
Mixed classes are going to be a thing of the future, especially in the present economic climate. Unfortunately, due to the wrecklessness of developers, bankers and our Government, the issue of NAMA is now far more important than our children, mixed or straight classes and present or future education cuts.

overmantle

I don't mean this to be blunt but it is the reality. The other poster who recommended good communication between yourself and the teachers, with appropriate work going on in school as well as at home is the best course of action. If you have the time, perhaps your local TDs should be contacted and express your anger/disappointment to them.

anamcarame

Well I do think it is necessary to have good communication between ourselves and his teacher. I intend to go into see her very soon. I would like her to settle into her new class too though. The last thing she would welcome is parent fussy at the beginning of the year before she even gets to know him and his abilities etc.

I too have heard all the negative commnets form people regarding the teachers when they were protesting. So hard to believe as most of these where coming from parents themselves. How many of them are eating thir words now??

Interesting that the TUI guidelines do now cover the primary schools. I work in education myself but at secondary school level so I wondered if the same applied to primary. some of our teachers have made it clear that they will not be teaching more that 30 in thier classes. To date it is working and no teachers are refusing to teach, no pupils re being asked to leave the class. i just hope none of the numbers go over the 30 later in the year as it will put some staff in a compromising position.