Another simple question

Jay Pentatonic

I'm trying to say "we were engaged in Ireland" so just correct me if I'm wrong...

"Bhí muid dálta in Éirinn"

Thanks again in advance:)
...

An gal gréine

Nothing wrong with that Jay1989.
"Gealladh in Éirinn muid", would be more commonly used and understood though.

Jay Pentatonic

Cool thanks, just two questions.
is there any particular reason why it's not gleannladh muid in Eirinn, or is it just the way it goes
Also, does what I had before sound a bit unnatural & off?

Grudaire

Jay1989 wrote: »

Cool thanks, just two questions.
is there any particular reason why it's not gleannladh muid in Eirinn, or is it just the way it goes
Also, does what I had before sound a bit unnatural & off?

dálta was the wrong word first off (it means student)

Bhí muid Geallta in Éireann is acceptable, but not ideal. It's Béarlachadas.

An gal gréine

You are confusing 'dalta' a student with 'dálta' which means 'betrothed'.
As regards Béarlachas, I think once you avoid the dreaded "FUAIR muid geallta" you will be ok with the word 'geall'
In Conamara if you said "bhí muid dálta" in speech they would take you to be saying "we were fluthered". That's how they pronounce "dallta" as in "blind drunk" if you follow me.
The old poetic way to say "they were engaged in Ireland" was "thug siad lámh is focal dá chéile in Éirinn".
Never heard of 'gleannladh'. Where did you see that ?

Jay Pentatonic

:oOpps, sorry An gal gréine I just misread what you gave me!!! lol :pac:

So my question was just focusing on the sentence structure.

I was wondering why it's not "Gealladh muid in Éirinn". I thought the pronoun goes after the verb (even in the past tense) like it does in "cheannaigh mé" (In case I didn't spell it correctly I meant "I bought"):o

An gal gréine

Sorry Jay1989. I thought you were using a verb I had'nt heard of.
"Gealladh in Éirinn muid" and "Gealladh muid in Éirinn" is the same to my mind, maybe a slight emphasis on 'Éire' in the first and "muid" in the second.
However I'd avoid the "dálta" in case I was misunderstood by a westerner.

pog it

You can say 'Fuair muid geallta' for 'We got engaged'. It may well be down to the influence of English on Irish, but good Irish native speakers in Connemara people do say it.

An gal gréine

Only in very recent times have they begun to say this, I've heard them myself in disbelief. If the trend continues then eventually it will become acceptable. Instead of "pósadh iad", you'll hear "fuair siad pósta" creeping in these days and its down to translating FROM the English which is sad in the case of native speakers.

pog it

I have a similar way of thinking myself, but it's not possible to always be so hardcore, like for instance my teacher from Conamara hates people saying 'ag crochadh thart' for 'hanging around' and other expressions influenced by English like that. But she says 'Fuair siad geallta'. I don't know would she necessarily say 'Fuair siad pósta' though.

I suppose you can draw a line if you are a good native speaker. She's a very pure, rich speaker too.

An gal gréine

I dont think it's hardline to point out the right way of saying it. Would "tá siad geallta" be accepted in an exam situation ? It's said that what native speakers do when speaking in English is to translate in their heads what they want to say from their Irish. Now with "fuair siad geallta/pósta/slaghdán" becoming prevalent they are translating again, this time from their translated English back into Irish but this time poorly.

pog it

An gal gréine wrote: »

I dont think it's hardline to point out the right way of saying it. Would "tá siad geallta" be accepted in an exam situation ? It's said that what native speakers do when speaking in English is to translate in their heads what they want to say from their Irish. Now with "fuair siad geallta/pósta/slaghdán" becoming prevalent they are translating again, this time from their translated English back into Irish but this time poorly.

I am referencing a native speaker who is very precious about their Irish language and is well aware of the English influence on the language.. and like I said-I understand 100% where you are coming from

Yes what you are saying about when native Irish speakers are speaking in English they translate what they want to say from how they say it in Irish. Isn't that how Hiberno English came about after all.

I guess we are both sayng that we need to learn Irish without translating directly from English- this goes for learning any new language. But what I'm saying is that in certain cases the direct translation is acceptable and widely used. I can't contradict this native speaker- their Irish is beyond good.

An gal gréine

Yes, we have Hiberno-English, our imprint on the English language, but next we'll have Sax-Gaelic with the imprint English is having on Irish!
There is a particular problem with the word "get" which in Irish means to obtain (faigh). In English , while it also means "obtain" there's more to "get" than just obtaining, as in to get engaged, to get married etc. You are not "obtaining" here, it's just a different meaning to the word. It does'nt automatically follow that this should occur in Irish but as I pointed out, with enough people changing to it, it will becme acceptable as critical mass wins out.

Jay Pentatonic

Me again, but with a new question;)

How do you say "that's right"...

it sounds like "sin car"

I'm using it as in...

"sin car!, tá mé ag caint as Gaeilge"

btw, I think next time I've got another one of these small questions, I'll just post it in this thread (as can anyone else:))
I just think it'll just be better than the Irish forum being bombarded with a bunch of little questions by me:D

An gal gréine

(Tá) sin ceart.

conchubhar1

To expect there not to be a huge influence on irish by english is ludicrous.

The proximity, the history. The years of bilingualism...... the years since there has been an irish speaker with no or perfect english.....

An gal gréine

There has'nt been a "huge influence" of English on Irish to date, probably because the Gaeltachtaí are situated in such isolated regions. However, I believe that is about to change big-time in the next 50 years as the world becomes a smaller place. By the way, there are still many older folk in the Gaeltachtaí who are very much ill at ease when forced to speak English !

pog it

to jay: Keep asking! I thought a few months back that I was overdoing it here with threads and questions but I think now it's great if you ask- everyone benefits really

are you going to any classes these days?

Jay Pentatonic

are you going to any classes these days?

Hey,

I was planning to go through some lessons with gaelchultúr for the rest of the year (I did a short 5 week thing with them ealier this year & found it really helpful:))

But I'm in college now, & I don't have as much time as I assumed.:mad: I'm hoping to do one of their courses in the new year (I'll probably be used to college life by then, so it should be easier to handle.)

So what I'm doing now is learning from "Buntús cainte", the grammar book "progress in Irish" & listening to RnaG & watching tg4

even though I'm putting a huge effort into this, I know it's probably best to just get lessons...whenever that'll be:rolleyes:

pog it

Jay1989 wrote: »

Hey,

I was planning to go through some lessons with gaelchultúr for the rest of the year (I did a short 5 week thing with them ealier this year & found it really helpful:))

But I'm in college now, & I don't have as much time as I assumed.:mad: I'm hoping to do one of their courses in the new year (I'll probably be used to college life by then, so it should be easier to handle.)

So what I'm doing now is learning from "Buntús cainte", the grammar book "progress in Irish" & listening to RnaG & watching tg4

even though I'm putting a huge effort into this, I know it's probably best to just get lessons...whenever that'll be:rolleyes:

Yea I went to Gaelchultúr as well and they were so good. I know in UCD they had a weekend around Hallowe'en time that was sponsored by Oifig na Gaeilge in the Gaelchulturlann and it was 20 euro or something for the two days and I felt like I'd reached Heaven when I did that. Some unies give Irish classes every week in the evening- it was Bord na Gaeilge that did them in UCD, and they were free.

Anyway glad to hear it's going great for ya