Father has withdrawn Daughters College Fund

Oriner

I checked my daughters(who's 4) junior savings account yesterday to find her Father has withdrawn her €4000 savings.
The account is in her name, with both me and her father named as her parents, I am her only legal guardian, he only has supervised access.
I don't think there is much I can do as he was the signaturee on the account as he opened it when she was a baby on my request.
Will he have to return this money to her. I haven't told him I know until I see my solicitor on Monday.

CDfm

What you need to do is establish what type of account it is.

Some accounts are simply savings mechanisms for parents who retain total ownership of the money deposited and are simply set up as joint accounts or sole accounts by the parents with the parents as the legal owners.

Other accounts are set up under trust arrangements. A trust is a legal instrument which splits ownership into legal and beneficial ownership where a trustee (your ex and or yourself) might hold ownership of an account for a specific purpose for the benefit of the child who would have beneficial ownership ie the right to benefit from the money . How the money is disposed of depends on how the trust is worded.So if its loose with wide powers your ex may have legally been entitled to withdraw the lot.

So the first thing to do is talk to the bank and ask them how the account is set up and ask them for copies of the account opening forms and associated terms and conditions before seeing the solicitor.Who will want to see them.

If the father has supervised access the split has not been amicable. Some accounts like this were sometimes used by parents for other reasons than savings for children. A judge can look thru an arrangement easily enough and disregard it.

Oriner

I just had a look through the t&c's on her account.

Number 1 and 8 state that she is the customer and she should be the the beneficial owner of all funds.

Hopefully this will help me get her money back.
1. Definitions

In these Conditions: ‘the Bank’ means Allied Irish Banks p.l.c. ‘Customer’ means the person in whose name the Junior Saver Account has been opened. ‘Junior Saver Account’ means a current account to be operated strictly in credit opened with the Bank in the name of the customer who is under the age of 13 years.

8. Operating Requirements

• The Junior Saver Account must be operated strictly in credit at all times.
• The Customer must be the beneficial owner of all funds lodged to the Junior Saver Account

nuac

I haven't seen the full conditions for a Junior Saver Account. There is no particular legal significance about reaching age 13 - just an AIB rule of thumb.

Strictly speaking, a young person is not legally able to enter into contracts etc except for necessities until 18. That technically includes dealing with money, unless the particular financial institution has statutory provisions covering such accounts. E.g. AFAIK the POSB.

While various financial institutions have accounts which allow the young person to withdraw certain amounts of funds at certain ages, there are risks.

This 4 year old on reaching 18 might sue the bank for the €4000 on the basis that it was improperly paid out.

The Revenue might take an interest in how a 4 year old got €4,000.

The Banks money laundering officer might also have a problem.

IMHO money being lodged for someone under 18 should be in the names of two trustees - parents or parent plus partner ot grandparent, with both signatures required for any pay out.

CDfm

Thats my feeling too.

If the account was set up to take advantage of a tax break it might have been set up with particular documentation.

I would imagine though if this is one of a series of issues in a vexacious family law case the judge is just as likely to ignore it.

Oriner

The account has nothing to do with a tax break, €20 lodged weekly since she was a baby.
My partner gave me her deposit book, which states money can't be withdrawn without it, only in certain circumstances.
Thanks for all the replies.

Jo King

Who lodged the money into the account?

CDfm

The OP said the Dad opened it and deposited 20 a week and was the signaturee on the account.

CDfm

I found this link

http://www.aib.ie/personal/savings/AIB-Junior-Saver

Who can lodge to or withdraw money from the account?

Anyone can lodge to the account. Until the child named on the account reaches the age of 7, withdrawals can only be made by the Parent/Guardian of the AIB Junior Saver Account. On reaching the age of 7, this instruction can be changed by the Parent/Guardian to allow the child to withdraw money from the account.

Jo King

CDfm wrote: »

The OP said the Dad opened it and deposited 20 a week and was the signaturee on the account.

Where? The o/p said 20 a week was lodged to the account. She did not say who lodged it.

Oriner

Her dad had a direct debit of 20 a week from his account set up. He never helped out a whole lot financially which I didn't mind as I knew he was lodging money into her savings account.(he always made a point of telling people he had this account for her)
I am absolutely furious over this. Really hope I can get it back for her.

Boston

Maybe a side topic, but your refer to hims as your partner, would it not be best to talk to him before getting a solicitor involved?

CDfm

I imagine it is best to speak to the bank first.

Given that this is a family law matter and he was excercising control over the money it may very well be that he has moved it and he could very well be legally entitled to do so.

He hardly is going to give control of the money to you given that there is a guardianship and access dispute going on and given there is supervised access. Its just another piece of acrimony.

Oriner

Sorry that was a type error, he is my ex partner.
There is no dispute going on, he agreed to supervised access and was denied guardianship 4 years ago. He has an alcohol problem.
I never wanted control over her account, we had both agreed that the money was for her college when she turned 18.
I wanted it that both our signatures were needed to have her money withdrawn.

CDfm

If there is supervised access it is either by court order or your insistence and your reaction is to go to a solicitor and court then there is a problem. Nowdays not having guardianship seems to be unusual.

The reason I commented on it is that its looks more like a symptom of an access dispute rather than the money itself.

However, if you are trying to get some semblence of order into it you should try the Family Mediation Service.