How to make things work

LegacyUser

I am catholic and my other half is muslim, both in our 30s and together a couple of years. Things are getting more serious, and there are concerns that our different religions may potentially cause longer term issues when it comes to children (have to be his faith, it's a part of his religion) and both our families' perception of us being in a relationship outside our religion - this would be more his family than mine, although I think mine being the traditional Irish family would find plan to give up drinking entirely and reluctance to have alcohol in the home strange.

Does anyone have experience of being in a mixed faith relationship - how to make this work?

dirtydress

I dont have any experience in this but I just wanted to ask, what are yours and his feelings about your different religions? Are you a practising Catholic? and is he a practising Muslim? What are his views on raising your kids? and what are yours?
Your problem is phrased very vaguely and although families are always a factor in these things, ultimately it's your lives you're living, not theirs.

LegacyUser

Hi there OP,

Tread carefully here. I know lot's of mixed marriages that do work out and lots that don't. The fact that you are posting her makes me think you have your own doubts. Have you talked about all eventual scenarios? If you have kids, what will their faith be etc? And why would alcohol be banned in the house? You are not Muslim? Are you converting? Your partner doesn't have to drink that's fine but doesn't mean you can't. Are you going to ban pork also? Wear a burqa? Also, often men become more religious and conservative once married - this is particularly true of Muslim men. Be honest with yourself and follow your gut. Good luck

LegacyUser

Unregistere wrote: »

I am catholic and my other half is muslim, both in our 30s and together a couple of years. Things are getting more serious, and there are concerns that our different religions may potentially cause longer term issues when it comes to children (have to be his faith, it's a part of his religion) and both our families' perception of us being in a relationship outside our religion - this would be more his family than mine, although I think mine being the traditional Irish family would find plan to give up drinking entirely and reluctance to have alcohol in the home strange.

Does anyone have experience of being in a mixed faith relationship - how to make this work?

I had a 5 year relationship with a Muslim and to be honest we had very few issues relating to the differences in our religion, culture and language. Neither of us were very devout yet we learned a lot about the others's religion (e.g. I read about Islam, he came to Mass with me) but having different religions was never seen as an issue by us or the cause of any difficulties. Both of our families were very happy with the relationship and indeed very upset when it ended, there was never any plan for either of us to convert religion, we were just 2 people who had been brought up in different faiths and we had fewer problems in our relationship than many of our friends at that time.

Later there would probably have been more discussions about the religion our kids would be raised in, but we had already decided that they would not be labelled as catholics or muslims, they would be our kids and we would teach them about both faiths as they grew up.

A mixed-faith relationship is not plan sailing for sure, but with give and take on both sides it can work.

Problems do arise when one or other feels pressured to convert to a different religion or raise children in a different faith to their own or when there is family disapproval or cynicism about the relationship. Again, making sure that friends/family understand and respect even the basics about Islam/Catholicism will help a lot, also when they see how serious you two are about spending your future together this will also help to get onside.

Good luck!

Jo King

I know of two neighbouring families where a member married a muslim. One is divorced ( a catholic man). The other ( a catholic woman) committed suicide. The short answer is that it simply will not work.

LegacyUser

OP here again

Thanks for the replies so far. I am not an actively practicing catholic, I rarely go to church except for weddings/funerals. However I would not have any intent to convert. He is more religious than I am, in that he says his prayers daily, doesn't eat pork and is gradually moving to giving up alcohol.

With regard to children, if we were married they would have to be raised as muslim, that is something that he has said would be very important to him, and given that I am not a practicing catholic I feel it would be hypocritical to make a big issue of this, it does not particularly concern me but I suspect my parents generation would not be comfortable. Islam does get a very bad press (e.g. wearing a burka is not part of islam, it is cultural), and I just don't want to wind up in a scenario where I am isolated from my family because they don't understand or are quick to judge.

SundayGuest thanks for your helpful response.
Jo King were those situations directly resulting from religious differences?

mood

OP would you not be worried about any daughters you may have? Muslim women get treated very badly as far as I am aware. Did you OH grow up in Ireland? Would you move to his home country if he wanted to?

If it was me the treatment of women by Muslim cultures would be a very real concern.

LegacyUser

We would not be living in a muslim country, he has not done so for 20 years. In terms of treatment of women I would say this man has treated me far better than any other person I have been in a relationship with, and thankfully I have no attitude to women concerns whatsoever.

Jo King

The differences were cultural and religious. It gets worse over time not better. I have a cousin who married a muslim in England. He was very good to her in the early stages but after the children were born it was completely different. They are now divorced. I have had contact with some muslims in Dublin. Women have to stay in the background when there are visitors in the home. The man expects to decide everything to do with the children.
I was told by the guy who is divorced that the mix of muslim/christian just cannot work. From what I have seen I would have to agree.
There are also some horror stories of children being brought back to the home country and try as they might, the wives cannot get them back to Ireland.

VaioCruiser

Unregistere wrote: »

I am catholic and my other half is muslim, both in our 30s and together a couple of years. Things are getting more serious, and there are concerns that our different religions may potentially cause longer term issues when it comes to children (have to be his faith, it's a part of his religion) and both our families' perception of us being in a relationship outside our religion - this would be more his family than mine, although I think mine being the traditional Irish family would find plan to give up drinking entirely and reluctance to have alcohol in the home strange.

Does anyone have experience of being in a mixed faith relationship - how to make this work?

I believe there is no way to make this work OP. It's all fine and well dating while you live in a nice democratic country. But when you have children AND he is insisting they be Muslim you are getting a taste of the future. You will then start to experience all of the other appalling Islamic rules and cultures as regards the children, and especially how daughters are treated. Once married his family will influence him greatly and his religion will most likely become more important to him. You as a woman will find that you become less and less important and if you fight it, like so many others before you, you may wake up one morning and find your children taken to his home country and never see them again...

All the best.

Moomoo1

By the sound of some of the replies here, your main problem is dealing with anti-Muslim prejudices from your countrymen.

All the best.

VaioCruiser

Moomoo1 wrote: »

By the sound of some of the replies here, your main problem is dealing with anti-Muslim prejudices from your countrymen.

All the best.

That is nonsense. It is not anti muslim to face up to the truth of what the Islamic religion believes and practices. It would be blind ignorance to pretend it does not exist. That is what so many girls have discovered too late ...
If you think anything people say is factually untrue then say so ... accusing people of religious bigotry is an empty accusation.

Tuesday_Girl

To balance some of the personal experiences being retold here, I know many mixed-faith couples (I live in a country with a high Muslim population) and all are happily married, most with children. Religion is not taught in schools here and so each couple decides themselves how to deal with faith and religion at home, and so far I've not heard from them of any issues. Some of the non-Muslims have converted to Islam, some drink alcohol, some observe Ramadan, some eat sausages. No two couples are the same and between them they work out how to live their lives as best they can for themselves and their children.

There are many misconceptions about the ill-treatment of Muslim women and while it certainly does happen, I think it is narrow-minded to generalise and say that a mixed-faith marriage cannot work and will never work.

LegacyUser

Thanks Razzle and to others.
I guess what I am trying to get a sense for is the areas of compromise-
Vaio in Islam you are supposed to raise your children according to your faith, Christianity operates on exactly the same principle though so it's not like one is worse than the other in this expectation.
It is the other areas that are of more concern to me, conversations have been had around children's participation in family events that would happen in church etc, will see how it goes but the signs are not encouraging.
I know it seems ridiculous that we have not had these discussions in detail before now, but as they are coming up just wanted to get a feel for if others have gone through this experience and, if they are in a successful relationship, how this was achieved while still respecting each other's right to different religious beliefs.

Moomoo1

VaioCruiser wrote: »

That is nonsense. It is not anti muslim to face up to the truth of what the Islamic religion believes and practices. It would be blind ignorance to pretend it does not exist. That is what so many girls have discovered too late ...
If you think anything people say is factually untrue then say so ... accusing people of religious bigotry is an empty accusation.

The problem is Vaio, you are generalising. That's what I had an issue with.

You are suggesting that _every_ religious Muslim man is a fanatical control freak. Which I find quite hilarious.

LegacyUser

Would you mind giving us more detail about how you OH would like to see possible children raised? I am meet a guy online who is from a Muslim country so I would appriciate more info.

Amazotheamazing

Moomoo1 wrote: »

The problem is Vaio, you are generalising. That's what I had an issue with.

You are suggesting that _every_ religious Muslim man is a fanatical control freak. Which I find quite hilarious.

Is that the nature of these boards though, without greater insight into the OP or her partner, we have to speak in general terms and tbf, in general, a religious Muslim man is more conservative than most. It's also a general rule that religious people get more conservative as they older.

Of course we don't know enough to give real 100%, can't possibly fail, advice, the best we can do is go by general rules.

Moomoo1

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Is that the nature of these boards though, without greater insight into the OP or her partner, we have to speak in general terms and tbf, in general, a religious Muslim man is more conservative than most. It's also a general rule that religious people get more conservative as they older.

Of course we don't know enough to give real 100%, can't possibly fail, advice, the best we can do is go by general rules.

There is a big gap between being conservative and being a fundamentalist headcase. I mean the guy spent 20 years in this country, and he's going to just leave with the children like that? Won't happen.

Amazotheamazing

Moomoo1 wrote: »

There is a big gap between being conservative and being a fundamentalist headcase. I mean the guy spent 20 years in this country, and he's going to just leave with the children like that? Won't happen.

Probably true, but a lot of the OP's issues seem to stem from the fact that her partner is conservative, not fundamentalist. I don't think anyone's suggesting that he's likely to turn any children into Jihadists or whatever.

Moomoo1

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Probably true, but a lot of the OP's issues seem to stem from the fact that her partner is conservative, not fundamentalist. I don't think anyone's suggesting that he's likely to turn any children into Jihadists or whatever.

ok then. But still, suggesting that just because he's conservative he will treat the children badly is pushing it.

Amazotheamazing

Moomoo1 wrote: »

ok then. But still, suggesting that just because he's conservative he will treat the children badly is pushing it.

Depends what you mean by "treat the children badly", for example, if they have daughter and when she's a teenager she wants to dress up in mini skirts etc like most teenage girls these days do, would he allow it? Would it be treating her badly if he didn't allow it?

Obviously that's a very minor example, but I'd be more worried about the day-to-day issues like that example than the greater "oh he could disappear back to a Muslim country" fear.

VaioCruiser

It is a big mistake to think that only fundamentalists believe in the Sharia Laws.

If he is conservative then he will most definitely believe in Sharia law and this is an appalling and fundamentally barbaric system for anyone who believes in modern concepts of democracy and individual freedom and equality.

This is not the place to get into a major disagreement about the minutiae of Islam so I just say to the OP, make sure you read about Sharia before you ever consider this move.

LegacyUser

Hi OP

I'm in a somewhat similar situation to you, though going out less than a year.

Early on, we laid down some ground rules or "deal breakers". From my side, I said that I would never convert, and that if we had children, they had to be brought up in both religions. My partner said that she would never change her own religious observances etc (i.e. would always pray, observe Ramadan, never eat port, never drink alcohol) and I should not prevent her from doing this. And that's OK for both of us.

Like you, I'm a lapsed catholic, so I wouldn't insist that any children be baptised. Now as I understand it, there is no equivalent "ceremony" in Islam where the new-born is declared a Muslim. So in my case I believe we've freedom to raise any children with both faiths. We also discussed that while, for example, the children would not eat pork in the house, if they were offered it at a friends house, they would be free to eat it. Of course this is all theoretical now, and god knows how things would change if we actually had a child.

Regarding the posters who talk of the dangers of conservative (not fundamentalist) islam, I believe they are correct. You must learn about it. Conservative (or just serious) Muslims view the teachings of the Koran and Mohammed as more than just something for Friday prayers, but as an actual legal framework for life and society. Which means that many of them believe in the concept of Sharia law also being the law of the land.

In your particular case, I would question why he would insist that the children be Muslim. Is it because Islam states that the children always inherit the religion of the father (I think that's the case, but am not sure)? I would also ask him about what he thinks acceptable for girls in school. Would he let your teenage daughter go to the swimming pool in mixed company? Would he want them to play sports (e.g hockey) where a lot of flesh is exposed? Would he want them to wear a headscarf? Would he let her go on a school trip which involved staying in a hotel where both girls and boys from the class were on the trip.

You say he doesn't eat pork. What would he think if your children were visiting your parents and they offered them sausages and rashers? How would he react to you eating Turkey and Ham at Christmas with your family.

As for yourself, if you are married and he has given up alcohol, would he be happy for you to head out with your friends on the lash, or even for a quite glass of wine? And how about work? Would he expect you to give up your job if you had kids?

Just some things you need to consider/discuss. Best of luck.

Tuesday_Girl

Some great advice from InterFaith and these are exactly the kind of conversations you should be having with your partner. You need to discuss where you both stand on these issues and envisage how your daily lives will be when you marry: will there be awkward social/family situations, explanations, justifications, potential embarrassment for kids, things they can't do, places they can't go, or can you both reach a happy middle ground on most issues?

Now is the time to talk through this stuff, understand each others religion and also your interpretation/practice of your religions, thoughts on child rearing (not only faith but discipline, hopes and aspirations for kids, sharing of the child-rearing and parenting role, etc.). If there are areas on which you differ greatly or cannot find a compromise then do think carefully before proceeding, as with any discussions between 2 people about a life-long commitment fears, reservations or red flags should not be ignored.

All the best!

LegacyUser

OP here
Interfaith thanks very much, that was a brilliant response.
Have discussed some of these items, not all, and it is great to get a steer on areas that should be considered. Yes the desire to raise children as muslim is because islam states the children inherit the religion of the father. However, he believes that things such as wearing the veil are 100% personal choice (mother or sister have not worn). While children would be raised as muslim if when they reached adulthood they chose not to practice or continue while he would be saddened it wouldn't mean he would love them less.

Am still delving into what exactly it means for children, it is not like catholicism where we have all of these landmark events like baptism, communion, confirmation.

Amazo - I was smiling when I saw your comment about miniskirts - used to have some clashes with my dad myself about that sort of thing!

bSlick

It's a tough one when both parties have conflicting fairy tales, sorry I mean religions. At least Catholicism, these days, is somewhat tolerant. You'd want to have a long hard think before you commit to a muslim, all might seem well and good now, but when you're married he mighn't have to keep up appearances so much. Do you really want to be marrying a man who adheres to a 'belief system' that regards women as 2nd class citizens/slaves?

VaioCruiser

InterFaith made an excellent post above.

However he omitted to highlight one critically important factor in the OP's equation.

In this case the Male Partner is Muslim, not the Female. This has enormous implications as regards conservative Islamic beliefs and Sharia Law.


All the best

Wibbs

VaioCruiser wrote: »

In this case the Male Partner is Muslim, not the Female. This has enormous implications as regards conservative Islamic beliefs and Sharia Law.

What it does say is that in the case of a Muslim woman being with a non Muslim Man with no real issue from her family, they're not likely to be particularly devout and observant. In Islam while a Muslim man can marry a non Muslim woman, the reverse is very much not allowed.

LegacyUser

You say he will want the kids to be Muslim because in Muslim states that always happens. However, Ireland is not a Muslim state. Would he allow his possible Muslim daughter marry a non Muslim?

Perhaps it might be a good idea to speak to a priest. Maybe they might have experience of dealing with such situations or know more about the Islamic law etc

LegacyUser

Worth reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia#Women

OS119

Moomoo1 wrote: »

The problem is Vaio, you are generalising. That's what I had an issue with.

You are suggesting that _every_ religious Muslim man is a fanatical control freak. Which I find quite hilarious.

i think its not unreasonable to assume that 'every Muslim man who insists that any children of a mixed-religion/culture marriage would be Muslim, should not eat pork, should not drink alcohol, and who'd admits that he'd be 'disappointed' if his Daughters chose not to wear religious clothing' could be described a bit of a control freak.

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that this is exactly what is being proposed. Does that sound liberal, non-control freaky, and fun to you?

OP, while you may be a 'lapsed' catholic, i bet you don't have no beliefs or values at all. that your partner has laid down the law regarding both your relationship and how your children would be brought up, and its all 'his way', i think you've got a reasonable insight into the decision making process within your future marriage.

marriages between people of different cultures and religions can, and do, work. marriages between people, one of who thinks they get to make all the decisions while the other meekly lives by them, rarely do.

LegacyUser

OS119 wrote: »

i think its not unreasonable to assume that 'every Muslim man who insists that any children of a mixed-religion/culture marriage would be Muslim, should not eat pork, should not drink alcohol, and who'd admits that he'd be 'disappointed' if his Daughters chose not to wear religious clothing' could be described a bit of a control freak.

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that this is exactly what is being proposed. Does that sound liberal, non-control freaky, and fun to you?

OS119 - OP here, think you have misinterpreted somewhat here, the clothing decision is 100% personal choice, he couldn't care less about this.

OP, while you may be a 'lapsed' catholic, i bet you don't have no beliefs or values at all. that your partner has laid down the law regarding both your relationship and how your children would be brought up, and its all 'his way', i think you've got a reasonable insight into the decision making process within your future marriage.

marriages between people of different cultures and religions can, and do, work. marriages between people, one of who thinks they get to make all the decisions while the other meekly lives by them, rarely do.

Separately, there is room for consensus, just trying to figure out where that is at the moment.

Unreg for this - it is not law in Muslim states that children should be raised as Muslim, this is one of the principles of Islam as a religion, similar to Christianity which has a principle that you should raise your children as Christians. If you are not in a country where Shariah law (based on Islam) is actively enforced, you can chose to abide by this, or not, based on what you agree with your partner.

Moomoo1

OS119 wrote: »

i think its not unreasonable to assume that 'every Muslim man who insists that any children of a mixed-religion/culture marriage would be Muslim, should not eat pork, should not drink alcohol, and who'd admits that he'd be 'disappointed' if his Daughters chose not to wear religious clothing' could be described a bit of a control freak.

If you'd read the thread, you'd see that this is exactly what is being proposed. Does that sound liberal, non-control freaky, and fun to you?

OP, while you may be a 'lapsed' catholic, i bet you don't have no beliefs or values at all. that your partner has laid down the law regarding both your relationship and how your children would be brought up, and its all 'his way', i think you've got a reasonable insight into the decision making process within your future marriage.

marriages between people of different cultures and religions can, and do, work. marriages between people, one of who thinks they get to make all the decisions while the other meekly lives by them, rarely do.

they are his children too you know. He does get a say in their upbringing you know... you named three things there that he wouldn't compromise on. I bet that almost every person in the world would have more than three things that he wouldn't compromise on regarding his/her children's upbringing.