Too many motorway redesignations?

watty

When some are really just Dual Carriageways?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/farmers-angry-at-being-forced-off-new-motorways-1872834.html

Why? Is there a prize for having more km of Motorway?

Amtmann

Watty, a motorway is (almost always) just a grade-separated dual carriageway with legal restrictions. There is no design difference as such. All of the redesignated sections are up to the standard. The redesignation protects them from inappropriate development while (in most cases) raising the speed limit to a more sensible level.

BrianD

It is odd - change the signs and you're a motorway and puts a blue line on a map. Suppose it makes us look like a more developed nation.

Incidentally, motorway status does not protect the route from inappropriate development. N routes were supposed to be protected until the vested interests of councillors weigh in. The inappropriate developments on m-ways are the retail/industrial parks that are appearing at every junction. This chokes traffic around these junctions which can also affect traffic on the motorway itself. Mind you, current economic climate will probably put an end to this type of development for the moment.

Chris_533976

Its also to protect against councils ribboning development along them, granting access for whatever LILO they see fit when they want an industrial estate.

Typical of the Independant too to be on about this.

G_R

"In the past we could just sit into the hard shoulder on the bypass, and it was safer and quicker for everyone, this is going to cause huge problems," Mr Hill, who is IFA county chairman for Wicklow, said.

that is not safer, that's an accident waiting to happen

watty

especially when there are ejits that regularly "overtake" on the shoulder.

My people (who obviously don't know about Green vs Blue signs) thought when the Limerick Raheen bypass opened that it was a Motorway. Apart from emergency phones it is like a motorway. But some sections in the country do seem like stretching a point.

Tech3

watty wrote: »

especially when there are ejits that regularly "overtake" on the shoulder.

My people (who obviously don't know about Green vs Blue signs) thought when the Limerick Raheen bypass opened that it was a Motorway. Apart from emergency phones it is like a motorway. But some sections in the country do seem like stretching a point.

No they are up to European motorway spec, we as Irish people need to realize that. Those routes redesignated are perfectly safe, its our driving test system that is the problem.

lucernarian

If I was bold, I could point out how it was a good thing that the Athlone bypass has been kept to 100 kph, whatever about making it a motorway or not. But that's another day's flame war.

I'm glad to see briand pointing out the disingenuous "Motorways protect against development" argument. They prevent aspects of bad planning, but certainly they still encourage development near junctions.

I can think of how Drogheda has almost inflated itself westwards towards the motorway, making it almost the "pseudo-boundary" that the M50 is for Dublin.

Wild Bill

tech2 wrote: »

its our driving test system that is the problem.

I don't think there is any problem at all, certainly no especially Irish one. (Except that the First National Pastime is whingeing about...ourselves, basically). As one who does 80k/annum and drives extensively in the UK and mainland Europe the notion that Irish drivers are bad is bunk. This Indo piece demonstrates that "whining sells".

If there is one national primary route that farmers and their slow, light-less, overloaded or wildly swinging PTO attachments should be banned from it is the N11 .

This should just be a start. :mad:

Wild Bill

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I can think of how Drogheda has almost inflated itself westwards towards the motorway, making it almost the "pseudo-boundary" that the M50 is for Dublin.

If Drogheda was expanding is that not the most reasonable a direction?

BrianD

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I can think of how Drogheda has almost inflated itself westwards towards the motorway, making it almost the "pseudo-boundary" that the M50 is for Dublin.

Interesting that you should say that. Because planners are in such a weak position when it comes to spatial planning they will often use motorways or N routes as the boundaries for land zoning. It would seem normal that planners would use best practice, geography and demography to plan. This means that landowner A would have his lands zoned for development while landowner B doesn't. So landowner B goes to his solicitor and engages his local councillors/TDs and sooner or later landowner B is rezoned.

Planners now find that motorways are tangible barriers when it comes to planning. So you'll find that everything west of Drogheda, for example, to the M1 will be allowed for development. Same is happening with Dunshaughlin and the M3. The M3 is the new edge to the village.

Wild Bill

Same with Arklow and Wicklow and the N11, though Bray appears to be jumping across the road. On the M7, Kildare and Portlaoise and Newbridge are contained by the road, though Naas/Sallins has swamped the old Naas bypass.

corktina

Wild Bill wrote: »

If Drogheda was expanding is that not the most reasonable a direction?

more sensisble than going ther opposite surely....:cool:

Carawaystick

Wild Bill wrote: »

If Drogheda was expanding is that not the most reasonable a direction?

You might be thinking Drogheda's on the sea, but it isn't.

The lines are only blue on certain maps. Michelin use a different colour scheme for their maps.

I don't think enough roads were redesignated, The N25,N22 in Cork, the N25 Waterford Bypass, the N11 from the Rugby club lilo junction to the M11 at the Arklow North junction, maybe some of the N4 in Sligo (only drove it once, seemed HQDC. ) off the top of my head.

Wicklow's a fair bit away from the N11 or M11.
All inside (to the east) the Arklow Bypass is Town council controlled land, while outside is Co.Co control. Wicklow co.co. are very strict about building in the rural parts of the county. Unlike say Wexford co.co. Cross the Wicklow/Wexford county line on any back road and the border will be obvious by the clusters of one off housing on the Wexford side.

Wild Bill

Carawaystick wrote: »

Wicklow's a fair bit away from the N11 or M11.

No any more! Wicklow has expanded westwards and absorbed the village of Rathnew; it comes right to the old N11 to the west of Rathnew. It it is within 200m of the M11 at several points.

Agree that Wexford is a good example of what happens to the countryside if there is absolutely NO restriction on building. The hillsides in the county look like something in the hills around Los Angeles. So I guess the ugliness of the Gorey bypass fits in fine!

Victor

Moved to Infrastructure.