Dental Treatment Abroad - Major new Survey

btkm8unsl0w5r4

3 out of every 4 Irish dentists treating patients for problems arising from treatment abroad

A major new survey has found that over the past 12 months, 76% of Irish dentists in private practice [more than 3 out of 4] have had to treat patients for problems linked to the dental treatment they received abroad.

The survey was carried out by independent research company, Behaviour & Attitudes, on behalf of the Irish Dental Association. 440 Irish dentists responded to the survey which dealt with a wide variety of issues. There are approximately 1,700 dentists in private practice in Ireland at present.

Speaking today, the President of the IDA, Dr. Donal Blackwell, said the findings reinforced concerns about the quality of dental care being received abroad; We're seeing a lot people returning home with problems which are directly related to the quality of the care they received abroad. Common problems include too much dental work being done over too short a time frame, unnecessary work being done and poor materials being used by dentists abroad.

Dr. Blackwell said that the figures reinforced concerns expressed previously by Professor Brian O'Connell and Dr. Michael O'Sullivan of the Dublin Dental Hospital that there is a substantial risk to patients travelling abroad for treatment. In a study published in 2007, Professor O'Connell and Dr. O'Sullivan found in a survey of 27 patients who had received treatment abroad in the first quarter of 2007, that only 4 had received a satisfactory level of care.

Dr. Blackwell said that one of the problems was that when considering travelling abroad for dental treatment, patients tended to focus on short term, aesthetic results rather than the long term quality of the care they received and that the lure of 'bargain' prices meant that patients were less concerned about the need for different treatments than the cost of them; its been estimated that as many as 44% of people travelling abroad for dental treatment actually don't know what they need when they enquire about costs [Ref: Professor Brian O'Connell].

Dr. Blackwell said that patients need to be more discerning when considering travelling abroad for treatment; 'Dental tourism' like medical tourism generally "is a fact of life in every developed country and some people travel to Ireland for specialist dental work. However we need to encourage people who may be travelling abroad to focus on the quality of work they receive and whether that work is really necessary and not just the price of that work."

Dr. Blackwell advised anyone considering undergoing treatment abroad to consult with their local dentist to clarify what work was required and to get a valid price comparison.

Survey Technical Details:
This National Survey of Dentists was conducted on behalf of the Irish Dental Association by Behaviour & Attitudes. The research took the form of a postal 'census' survey with the questionnaire being mailed to dentists throughout Ireland at the beginning of April 2009. Postal returns continued into May 2009 and resulted in a total of 440 responses.

Behaviour & Attitudes is a member of the European Society of Opinion and Market Research (ESOMAR), Association of Irish Market Research Organisations (AIMRO), and the Market Research Society (UK) and abides by the strict technical and ethical standards set down by these bodies

How Strange

Hmm, I'm sceptical in equal parts about the amazing stories about high tech dentistry in Hungary, Bulgaria, etc and how you can get all your dental problems solved for the cost of a sun holiday as I am about Irish surveys showing how awful and dangerous it is to go to unregulated countries such as Hungary or Bulgaria to have your dental problems solved for the cost of a sun holiday.

Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

I'm sure we could do a survey on the state of appalling dentistry in Ireland too and how people have spent alot of money for dreadful and dangerous work which has had to be repaired by other dentists. I'd like to see those survey results.

The cost of dentistry in this country is shocking and is probably on par with the medical care system in US. It's all grand and dandy if you have money to pay for your care but if not then you're fecked. I pity anyone who has to rely on those health board dentists. They're probably responsible for most people's phobias about dentists.

Until the cost of dentistry actually comes down in this country then I'll treat these reports and surveys with scepticism.

Big_G

I'm sure you know that nearly 85% of the country are covered by one government scheme or another to receive their dental care partially or totally free.

Healthcare costs money, and it has to be paid for somewhere by someone. I'm sure you would like dentists to work for free.

More complex treatment costs more money. Unlike in general medicine, almost all problems in dentistry are partially or totally caused by patient neglect for their own healthcare.

When patients start to take responsibility for their health, maybe the cost of healthcare in general and dentistry in particular will start to fall.

flahavaj

Could you please elaborate further on your disparaging comment about "those health board dentists?" Are you going by personal experience?

In what way do you feel they are inferior or provide an inferior service/standard of care to, say a private dentist?

flahavaj

My question is deirected at How Strange btw, work computer won't allow me use the quote button.

Big_G

I know and respect many healthboard dentists who are often dealing with the most difficult patients and cases that no private dentist would take on.

Bards

All I can say is that Dr Donal Blackwell is treating me (Implants) and his work is excellent

How Strange

<snip>
I've posted on this forum quite a few times, about work I'm having done, about my own condition and one previous negligent dentist (who remained nameless and as a point to substantiate posts by other users that not all dentists are qualified to carry out specialised work), I've responded to other posters if I can help with info so please elaborate on the spurious claim that I'm a troll.

How Strange

I take back the remark about health board dentists, that was uncalled for. I had awful experiences with health board dentists as a child and it took a long time before I'd let a dentist go near my teeth again. But that's my experience and not indicative of a whole profession.

Comment withdrawn.

again

Surely it should be "3 out of 4 surveyed dentists" as the vast majority (74%) of the 1700 Irish dentists had no opinion on the matter. Again, instead of "76% of Irish dentists......" the correct figure is less that 20%

btkm8unsl0w5r4

We can only give you the information, my personal experiance with a lot of this dental tourism is very negative for the patients long term dental health. You said we had no proof or evidence when we advised people to think carefully about getting a lot of complex dental work in a short period of time. Here is the evidence along with the previous study from the dublin dental hospital showing that of 27 patients attending only 4 had treatment that would be judges even half acceptable. More and more will come with time. I know it was nice to get one up on the irish dentists and show them who was boss, but unfortunatly as can be even seen even on these forums, you get what you pay for.

You have the information...make up your own mind its your mouth.

DublinWriter

again wrote: »

Surely it should be "3 out of 4 surveyed dentists" as the vast majority (74%) of the 1700 Irish dentists had no opinion on the matter. Again, instead of "76% of Irish dentists......" the correct figure is less that 20%

I think it would be fair to say that there's an agenda at work here by the IDA.

Firstly, the results of the survey is based on the opinion of just 25% of dentists in private practice in Ireland. My MSc mightn't be in stats, but even I know this is a fairly biased interpretation of the research findings.

Secondly, in the interests of balance, why didn't the IDA publish the stats on Irish dentists who find themselves having to repair the work of other Irish dentists?

Thirdly, the survey doesn't break down the countries in which patients initially received treatment. Surely the Irish Dental Association can't be telling us that standards of dentistry in the UK and US are less than that found in Ireland?

It was also an interesting choice of company the IDA chose to carry out the survery. This from Behaviour and Attitudes own website...

'We help our clients to solve their marketing problems. We do this by designing economic methods of data collection and applying imaginative analysis to that data.'

Imaginative analysis, indeed.

Big_G

Oh god forbid the IDA claim that Irish dentistry is better than that abroad.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

DublinWriter wrote: »

I think it would be fair to say that there's an agenda at work here by the IDA.

Yes, the agenda is to promote quality irish dentistry and promote oral health in the irish population.

Nobody is doubting that irish dental work goes wrong sometimes, however you will tend no the have the ear to ear crowns rottening out of your head that you get when going on dental tourism. Sure you can get good and bad work anywhere in the world. The information is that a lot of this forign dental work is not up to snuff (the cheap quick work, not the slow carefull work).

A survey is not the highest form of evidence but it is evidence, people need no evidence to go abroad but require a randomised controlled trial of 25 years duration to admit the obvious...you get what you pay for.

You have the information...make up your own mind.

Big_G

My degree might not be in statistics either, but it is in dentistry. And in my humble experience, the cases from abroad that are substandard/negligent outweigh the ones I see from Ireland about 4 to 1. I know that is only anectdotal evidence.

If I had been asked if I have had to repair work done abroad I would have said no. Because I don't repair substandard work from abroad. Some of it is so bad that I wouldn't know where to start. So I refer them to someone like fitzgeme who does the difficult stuff

davo10

I think you this could be looked at from a slightly different perspective. Of course you can have bad dental work done in Ireland, it would be arrogant and dillusional on our part to think it isn't possible. But if i carry out bad dentistry, I know that the patient is going to stand in my reception and demand compensation, if I do something very bad, I know I can be struck off. If you read Solas8's posts you will see that it is far more difficult to get satisfaction for bad dental work done abroad. The dentists know that you will be on the next flight out of the country after the treatment is finished and that they are unlikely to see you again. Remember you cannot see what is inside your crowns, what type of implants are used and what condition the teeth are in underneath.

I speak from experience in these matters. I am hoping to get consent from a patient to post photos of her teeth after she had treatment abroad. In one week she had pretty much every tooth in her mouth crowned or bridged. None of her back teeth meet when she closes, the crowns on her front 6 teeth cracked from the forces placed on them. There were a litany of problems but the shocker was the OPT x-ray, it showed gross decay under a number of the crowns. Why you might ask did the dentist leave decay there? because it would have taken far more time and extra appointments to remove decay and place cores prior to preparing teeth. He knew he would not see the patient again. I advised her to contact the dentist but her attitude is that it was cheap so what could she expect.

tibordental

Snip - Spam.
If you want to advertise your clinic please contact the admins for advertising space. This is not the first time I have warned you about this issue.

georgieporgy

The media isn't starting to scare people now. The media has always been very much in favour of dental tourism. Now that it's been going on a few years we are beginning to see enough rubbish coming back and patients are beginning to wise up. It's unlikely that somebody who has a bad dental experience abroad will return to the same operator to have it 'fixed'.

terribletim

again wrote: »

Surely it should be "3 out of 4 surveyed dentists" as the vast majority (74%) of the 1700 Irish dentists had no opinion on the matter.

That's generally how surveys are carried out. If you're able to get a sample size which is 25% of all dentists, that would actually make the results pretty accurate.

Again, instead of "76% of Irish dentists......" the correct figure is less that 20%

If the correct figure were less than 20%, how would you end up with a sample where where it is 75% :rolleyes: