Pecking Order

meath_101

First time poster here so hope i'm doing this right!
I'm just wondering what people think about seniority in the staffroom - does this extend to all areas of the staffroom, seats, lockers etc.? I'm bottom of the seniority list in my school so would like to know where I stand. Thanks

byhookorbycrook

seniority in our school is for management issues only, otherwise we're all equal, no-one "owns" a seat in the staffroom etc.

TheDriver

every school is differnet, some all get along, others no one gets along, some have reserved seating others do not. Whatever works to be honest.

gaeilgebeo

meath_101 wrote: »

First time poster here so hope i'm doing this right!
I'm just wondering what people think about seniority in the staffroom - does this extend to all areas of the staffroom, seats, lockers etc.? I'm bottom of the seniority list in my school so would like to know where I stand. Thanks

Everyone is equal in our school with regards a "pecking order". That'll be the least of your worries if you're starting in a new school!

niall3r

permanents/cid/returning/new teachers/dippers/SNA's.

has been my experience. though a permanent teacher will talk to and have a chat with someone lower down, they wont tend to make too much of an effort with them. It makes sense in a way, because if ur permanent ull hang with other permanents because you know them longer, and know they will be there longer.

dippers tend to hang out together, sharing one chair and half a desk between them, on the seat nearest the door so they have to answer for the students who are looking for teachers, sharing the one cup. which leaks.

CID's and returning will hang together, and returning and new.

But its not a hard and fast rule.

lauralee28

niall3r wrote: »

permanents/cid/returning/new teachers/dippers/SNA's.

has been my experience. though a permanent teacher will talk to and have a chat with someone lower down, they wont tend to make too much of an effort with them. It makes sense in a way, because if ur permanent ull hang with other permanents because you know them longer, and know they will be there longer.

dippers tend to hang out together, sharing one chair and half a desk between them, on the seat nearest the door so they have to answer for the students who are looking for teachers, sharing the one cup. which leaks.

CID's and returning will hang together, and returning and new.



Are you implying that there is a distinction between permanent and cid? If so, what is it?
Is permanent and cid not the same thing?

Eccles

Yes there is definitely a pecking order (check your posted seniority list!) and yes there are always going to be cliques...(The GAA clique ,The Sex in the City clique etc )but I dont think its quite so bad that the dippers have to answer the door to students at break the whole time !!!

TheDriver

snas aren't in our pecking order as they are an expertise of their own, very well respected and have their own order within their ranks!

trebormurf

what a pointless thread

amacca

lauralee28 wrote: »

niall3r wrote: »

permanents/cid/returning/new teachers/dippers/SNA's.

has been my experience. though a permanent teacher will talk to and have a chat with someone lower down, they wont tend to make too much of an effort with them. It makes sense in a way, because if ur permanent ull hang with other permanents because you know them longer, and know they will be there longer.

dippers tend to hang out together, sharing one chair and half a desk between them, on the seat nearest the door so they have to answer for the students who are looking for teachers, sharing the one cup. which leaks.

CID's and returning will hang together, and returning and new.



Are you implying that there is a distinction between permanent and cid? If so, what is it?
Is permanent and cid not the same thing?

AFAIK they are very similar but they are not quite the same thing, think one difference is that permanent can apply for career break whereas CID cannot. there may be other differences also.

gaeilgebeo

amacca wrote: »

lauralee28 wrote: »

AFAIK they are very similar but they are not quite the same thing, think one difference is that permanent can apply for career break whereas CID cannot. there may be other differences also.

I'm cid and am entitled to career break. I assumed I was the same as a permanent member of staff and that cid is the new permanent????

amacca

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

I'm cid and am entitled to career break. I assumed I was the same as a permanent member of staff and that cid is the new permanent????

Ive been out of the profession a while now, please dont take what I say to be gospel

I just seem to remember an asti meeting I was at for new entrants to the profession years ago and the representative on the night being asked that question

he hummed and hawed and basically said they were the same to all intents and purposes until he was questioned closer and then he gave one or two specific differences between being permanent and being a cid. I hope somebody on here has more detailed knowledge and can answer your question.

They are not to the best of my knowledge exactly the same thing though.

amacca

hmmmm, its hard to get straight information on the above.

On the one hand it seems as if the only real difference between permanency and cid is that a cid may be for less than the full 22 hours


but then again

it seems to be a bit of a grey area in the event of there not being enough hours available in a subject that both a permanent contract holder and a cid holder teach in the future who gets redeployed? presumably seniority still wins the day?

+ is a permanent teacher contracted to the department and a cid contracted to the school technically or even vice versa, why call it a different name if its the same thing, either redesignate the permanent contract holders as 22 hr cids or just call new cids permanent...why add an extra layer of complexity if they are essentially the same thing

I seem to be utterly wrong about the career break thing tho

gaeilgebeo

amacca wrote: »

hmmmm, its hard to get straight information on the above.

On the one hand it seems as if the only real difference between permanency and cid is that a cid may be for less than the full 22 hours


but then again

it seems to be a bit of a grey area in the event of there not being enough hours available in a subject that both a permanent contract holder and a cid holder teach in the future who gets redeployed? presumably seniority still wins the day?

+ is a permanent teacher contracted to the department and a cid contracted to the school technically or even vice versa, why call it a different name if its the same thing, either redesignate the permanent contract holders as 22 hr cids or just call new cids permanent...why add an extra layer of complexity if they are essentially the same thing

I seem to be utterly wrong about the career break thing tho

It is a grey area, I agree

ulysses32

They are the same thing except CID allows for permanent part time. With regard to repdeployment, no agreement currently exists.

niall3r

I know somebody with a CID who has just been made permanent, of the differences and distinctions, Im really not sure. . . though it may have something to do with holding an A post? you can have a b post with a CID (as indeed u can without) but need to be permanent to have an A post??

SNA's have their own pecking order, but i dont know how it goes, i may be open to suggestion, but i think its to do with how long they may have been in a school, but i really am not sure.

Any staffroom i have been in has followed the same pecking order and cliques. . .but that may be coincidence.

gaeilgebeo

niall3r wrote: »

I know somebody with a CID who has just been made permanent, of the differences and distinctions, Im really not sure. . . though it may have something to do with holding an A post? you can have a b post with a CID (as indeed u can without) but need to be permanent to have an A post??

SNA's have their own pecking order, but i dont know how it goes, i may be open to suggestion, but i think its to do with how long they may have been in a school, but i really am not sure.

Any staffroom i have been in has followed the same pecking order and cliques. . .but that may be coincidence.

What type of school was this person made permanent? VEC?

ulysses32

niall3r wrote: »

I know somebody with a CID who has just been made permanent, of the differences and distinctions, Im really not sure. . . though it may have something to do with holding an A post? you can have a b post with a CID (as indeed u can without) but need to be permanent to have an A post??

SNA's have their own pecking order, but i dont know how it goes, i may be open to suggestion, but i think its to do with how long they may have been in a school, but i really am not sure.

Any staffroom i have been in has followed the same pecking order and cliques. . .but that may be coincidence.

CID and permanent are the same thing. CID cannot be treated any differently than what is known as a permanent contract therefore CID can hold A post, become DP or P.

The following extract from circular 0055/2008 refers to fixed term or non-permanent teachers being informed of permanent vacancies. CID teachers are not mentioned here because they are already permanent:

3.2 Notification of Permanent Vacancies

3.2.1 Fixed-term teachers must be notified of the existence of a permanent vacancy. Management authorities should note the provisions of the Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term) Work Act, 2003 which at section 10.2 provides that the information regarding a vacancy “may be provided by means of a general announcement at a suitable place or undertaking or establishment”.


There are CID teachers now teaching in school sthat are over quota. If they were not treated as permanent then surely they wouldbe released as a fixed term teacher would be. This doesn't seem to be the case.

niall3r

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

What type of school was this person made permanent? VEC?

**** community school.

And sorry ulysses, I really dont know distinctions, all i know is that she was delighted over the summer at being made permanent, and I was shown some document i never paid attention to that refered to her as being permanent, whereas she had been CID before.