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Irish Soldiers at the Battle of Rorke's Drift

  • 27-08-2009 5:22pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭


    I know this has nothing to do with WW1 but its probably the best place for it.

    Most of us have seen the film ‘Zulu’ . A brilliant film in my opinion with , I’m sure, a considerable ammount of artistic licence . The film is based on the attack on Rorke’s Drift mission station by thousands of Zulu warriors after the British defeat at Isandlwana 1879. The garrison , 1st and 2nd Battalions 24th Regiment of Foot , consisted of 167 men with 36 of those in the hospital and 120 men from the Natal Native Contingent . After the battle around 500 Zulus lay dead and 17 British soldiers were killed in action . The British army at the time a considerable amount were Irish and listed below are those born in Ireland , those who enlisted in Ireland and those who had Irish connections .

    ‘ Here they come . As thick as grass and black as thunder ’.
    Sergeant Henry Gallagher

    Irish born members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison.

    Henry Turner Private 1st Battalion Ballsbridge Dublin.
    Henry Gallagher Sergeant 2nd Battalion Thurles Co.Tipperary
    Patrick Hayes Drummer 2nd Battalion Newmarket Co. Clare
    James Bush Private 2nd Battalion St Johns Dublin
    Timothy Connors Private 2nd Battalion Killeaty Co. Cork
    James Dick Private 2nd Battalion Island Mage Co. Antrim
    James Hagen Private 2nd Battalion Nenagh Co. Tipperary
    Thomas Lynch Private 2nd Battalion Limerick
    John Lyons Private 2nd Battalion O’Briens Bridge Co. Clare
    Michael Minehan Private 2nd Battalion Castlehaven Co. Cork
    Agustus Morris Private 2nd Battalion Dublin
    Thomas Robinson Private 2nd Battalion St Patricks Dublin
    Michael Tobin Private 2nd Battalion Windgap Co. Kilkenny

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison who enlisted in Ireland

    Patrick Galgey Drummer 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Garret Hayden Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Dublin 1865
    John Manley Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Michael Kiley Private 2nd Battalion Enlisted Ireland

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison with Irish names and possible Irish Connections.

    Patrick Desmond Private 1st Battalion
    William Horrigan Private 1st Battalion
    Thomas Buckley Private 2nd Battalion
    Anthony Connors Private 2nd Battalion
    John Fagan Private 2nd Battaloin
    John Murphy Private 2nd Battalion
    ?? McMahon Private Army Hospital Corps
    Louis Byrne Acting Commissariat Officer

    Irish killed in action at Rorke’s Drift ; John Fagan , Patrick Hayden , William Horrigan and Louis Byrne .


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 938 ✭✭✭the GALL


    Just an add on to your post.
    Henry Gallagher's life as a solider is told on the gallagher clan website http://www.gallagherclan.org/gallagher_history.aspx
    It also has photos of the young man and a list of all his awards and achievments.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Not strictly related to WWI but possibly related to this thread I suppose. At the time of the famous 'Charge of the Light Brigade', there was also a 'Charge of the Heavy Brigade'. On hand that day made up largely of Irishmen (4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards & 6th Inniskilling Dragoons).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Morlar wrote: »
    Not strictly related to WWI but possibly related to this thread I suppose. At the time of the famous 'Charge of the Light Brigade', there was also a 'Charge of the Heavy Brigade'. On hand that day made up largely of Irishmen (4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards & 6th Inniskilling Dragoons).
    in the republic the forgotten irish [ for political reasons] never get the full credit for there role in the british army, without those brave men history may have been very different


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    getz wrote: »
    in the republic the forgotten irish [ for political reasons] never get the full credit for there role in the british army, without those brave men history may have been very different

    It is not just Irish people who do this. I have seen it too from england in regards to, for example, the first 'British' ace of WWI Edward Mannock ;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mannock

    It is not uncommon at all in my view.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Morlar wrote: »
    It is not just Irish people who do this. I have seen it too from england in regards to, for example, the first 'British' ace of WWI Edward Mannock ;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mannock

    It is not uncommon at all in my view.
    you have to remember up to 1920 all irishmen and woman were regarded as british


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    getz wrote: »
    you have to remember up to 1920 all irishmen and woman were regarded as british

    Yes, I am aware of that. Fact is we no longer are though.

    Here is one example of what I am talking about, it is a Biography page dedicated to Mannock, do a ctrl+f on this for the word 'Ireland' or 'Irish' to illustrate my point ;

    http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/mannock.php

    There is no mention anywhere (except maybe a google ad on the side).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Morlar wrote: »
    Yes, I am aware of that. Fact is we no longer are though.

    Here is one example of what I am talking about, it is a Biography page dedicated to Mannock, do a ctrl+f on this for the word 'Ireland' or 'Irish' to illustrate my point ;

    http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/mannock.php

    There is no mention anywhere (except maybe a google ad on the side).
    there must be a birth certificate that will prove his place of birth/i know the americans are good at claiming many of their greats as being american ie general custer,[a irishman]davy crockett [english] and most of the 180 men fighting at the alamo were europeans,but you know the problem in the UK,a lot of irish men and woman came over to england and changed their name[because they were hiding something,]thats the reason a lot of people cannot find their irish roots.so maybe thats why he enlisted as a englishman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    found it edward corrincham [known as mick mannock ?]born in ballincollic,cork. www.westernfrontassociation.com


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Becky Jarvis


    So nice to see his name here. John Manley is my great Grandad...a survivor of the battle.


    I know this has nothing to do with WW1 but its probably the best place for it.

    Most of us have seen the film ‘Zulu’ . A brilliant film in my opinion with , I’m sure, a considerable ammount of artistic licence . The film is based on the attack on Rorke’s Drift mission station by thousands of Zulu warriors after the British defeat at Isandlwana 1879. The garrison , 1st and 2nd Battalions 24th Regiment of Foot , consisted of 167 men with 36 of those in the hospital and 120 men from the Natal Native Contingent . After the battle around 500 Zulus lay dead and 17 British soldiers were killed in action . The British army at the time a considerable amount were Irish and listed below are those born in Ireland , those who enlisted in Ireland and those who had Irish connections .

    ‘ Here they come . As thick as grass and black as thunder ’.
    Sergeant Henry Gallagher

    Irish born members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison.

    Henry Turner Private 1st Battalion Ballsbridge Dublin.
    Henry Gallagher Sergeant 2nd Battalion Thurles Co.Tipperary
    Patrick Hayes Drummer 2nd Battalion Newmarket Co. Clare
    James Bush Private 2nd Battalion St Johns Dublin
    Timothy Connors Private 2nd Battalion Killeaty Co. Cork
    James Dick Private 2nd Battalion Island Mage Co. Antrim
    James Hagen Private 2nd Battalion Nenagh Co. Tipperary
    Thomas Lynch Private 2nd Battalion Limerick
    John Lyons Private 2nd Battalion O’Briens Bridge Co. Clare
    Michael Minehan Private 2nd Battalion Castlehaven Co. Cork
    Agustus Morris Private 2nd Battalion Dublin
    Thomas Robinson Private 2nd Battalion St Patricks Dublin
    Michael Tobin Private 2nd Battalion Windgap Co. Kilkenny

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison who enlisted in Ireland

    Patrick Galgey Drummer 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Garret Hayden Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Dublin 1865
    John Manley Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Michael Kiley Private 2nd Battalion Enlisted Ireland

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison with Irish names and possible Irish Connections.

    Patrick Desmond Private 1st Battalion
    William Horrigan Private 1st Battalion
    Thomas Buckley Private 2nd Battalion
    Anthony Connors Private 2nd Battalion
    John Fagan Private 2nd Battaloin
    John Murphy Private 2nd Battalion
    ?? McMahon Private Army Hospital Corps
    Louis Byrne Acting Commissariat Officer

    Irish killed in action at Rorke’s Drift ; John Fagan , Patrick Hayden , William Horrigan and Louis Byrne .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭FiSe


    getz wrote: »
    found it edward corrincham [known as mick mannock ?]born in ballincollic,cork. www.westernfrontassociation.com

    There's a recent post enquiring about Mannock's nationality:

    '...By the time Edward Corringham Mannock was twelve years old, his Scots father had abandoned his English wife and children, leaving them destitute. Mannock dropped out of school to take various jobs in order to help with the family finances.When the war began, he was interned in Turkey while working as an inspector for a British telephone company. After an unsuccessful escape attempt, he became deathly ill and was repatriated by the Turks in 1915. When he...

    Very interesting page about, not only, WWI aces: http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/


    Here Flying In Ireland, February 2009:
    '...mother Julia O'Sullivan met his father, Corporal Mannock, while the Second Inniskilling Dragoons were based at Ballincollig in Cork....Edward was apparently born at Preston cavalry barracks, Brighton on may 24th.... '


    Some of the Irish aces on the aerodrome page, have probably never seen Ireland. Some of them were born overseas to 'Irish' parents. And in some cases it's questionable wheter their parents regarded themselves as Irish or British or English nationals even though they were born in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭FiSe


    So nice to see his name here. John Manley is my great Grandad...a survivor of the battle.

    Would you have any picture of him? Would be nice to put face behind some of the names.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    So nice to see his name here. John Manley is my great Grandad...a survivor of the battle.

    yes it would be great to see a photo of him . i'll copy the full article for you if you want and send it to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Becky Jarvis


    yes it would be great to see a photo of him . i'll copy the full article for you if you want and send it to you.

    Wish I had a photo. I asked my mother but sadly there are no photos of great great grandad Manley. Might have others of the family line though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34 617


    Was the doctor at Rorkes Drift not a Major Reynolds from Kingstown ( Dun Laoghaire ) ? He appears to be missing from the list.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    617 wrote: »
    Was the doctor at Rorkes Drift not a Major Reynolds from Kingstown ( Dun Laoghaire ) ? He appears to be missing from the list.

    of course you are right. he went to school in castleknock, i think, and later to trinity college.

    it is interesting that there is a strong Irish connection to the Victoria Cross winners of the battle.

    Reynolds was Irish. Major Gonville Bromheads mother was Judith Christine Cahill from Co. Sligo . Private John Williams , real name was John William Fielding , and both of his parents were born in ireland and fled to Wales to escape poverty . Commissary James Dalton the hero of the battle was , most likely , Irish from Waterford.

    "In truth, the real hero of Rorke's Drift was Commissary Dalton. It was Dalton who persuaded Chard and Bromhead to remain at Rorke's Drift when their first instinct was to abandon the post, and it was Dalton who organised and inspired the defence. But Dalton, an ex-NCO, came from what was considered the wrong background, and was ignored for almost a year. He was eventually awarded a VC after intensive lobbying by the press - but not until January 1880, by which time the celebrations had died down." http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/zulu_01.shtml

    Nevill Coghill who won a VC for his actions at Isandlwana was half Irish, i think it was in a recent issue of "History Ireland".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    And they were all Brummies not Welsh


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 588 ✭✭✭R.Dub.Fusilier


    And they were all Brummies not Welsh

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "49 were English, 18 Monmouthshire,16 Irish, 1 Scottish, 14 Welsh and 21 of unknown nationality[/FONT]" [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'The Noble 24th. by Norman Holme

    Looks like more Irish than Welsh. the 24th Regiment of Foot
    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]was formerly the Warwickshire Regiment .[/FONT]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    getz wrote: »
    you have to remember up to 1920 all irishmen and woman were regarded as british

    Actually British, and during the recent passport crisis one of our own IRISH ministers reminded us that those born before 1949 could apply for British passports.

    We were British then and truth be known, most were also very proud of that, but that's another story. We did not become a legal Republic until 1949, up to that point we were either British or in the Common Wealth. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    Many thanks for this post and the links.

    Having been a rifleman with the .303, this action in the Natal was often mentioned as to the capabilities of our weapons when used effectively.

    However, I actually never understood the story until now, and yes I am a fan of the film too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "49 were English, 18 Monmouthshire,16 Irish, 1 Scottish, 14 Welsh and 21 of unknown nationality[/FONT]" [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'The Noble 24th. by Norman Holme

    Looks like more Irish than Welsh. the 24th Regiment of Foot
    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]was formerly the Warwickshire Regiment .[/FONT]

    That was my point, the film made it look like they were all from Wales, but the 24th did its recruiting in Birmingham


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 Becky Jarvis


    After 18 years of searching, John Manleys unmarked grave now found.
    Carlton Cemetery, Carlton Nottingham.
    Full military unveiling of new headstone by members of the the family, the British Legion, Sherwood Foresters, Lady Mayoress of Nottingham, MP's etc.
    Event taking place on Nov 2nd at Carlton Cemetery, Nottingham @ 2pm for those interested in attending.


    Most of us have seen the film ‘Zulu’ . A brilliant film in my opinion with , I’m sure, a considerable ammount of artistic licence . The film is based on the attack on Rorke’s Drift mission station by thousands of Zulu warriors after the British defeat at Isandlwana 1879. The garrison , 1st and 2nd Battalions 24th Regiment of Foot , consisted of 167 men with 36 of those in the hospital and 120 men from the Natal Native Contingent . After the battle around 500 Zulus lay dead and 17 British soldiers were killed in action . The British army at the time a considerable amount were Irish and listed below are those born in Ireland , those who enlisted in Ireland and those who had Irish connections .

    ‘ Here they come . As thick as grass and black as thunder ’.
    Sergeant Henry Gallagher

    Irish born members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison.

    Henry Turner Private 1st Battalion Ballsbridge Dublin.
    Henry Gallagher Sergeant 2nd Battalion Thurles Co.Tipperary
    Patrick Hayes Drummer 2nd Battalion Newmarket Co. Clare
    James Bush Private 2nd Battalion St Johns Dublin
    Timothy Connors Private 2nd Battalion Killeaty Co. Cork
    James Dick Private 2nd Battalion Island Mage Co. Antrim
    James Hagen Private 2nd Battalion Nenagh Co. Tipperary
    Thomas Lynch Private 2nd Battalion Limerick
    John Lyons Private 2nd Battalion O’Briens Bridge Co. Clare
    Michael Minehan Private 2nd Battalion Castlehaven Co. Cork
    Agustus Morris Private 2nd Battalion Dublin
    Thomas Robinson Private 2nd Battalion St Patricks Dublin
    Michael Tobin Private 2nd Battalion Windgap Co. Kilkenny

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison who enlisted in Ireland

    Patrick Galgey Drummer 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Garret Hayden Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Dublin 1865
    John Manley Private 2nd Battalion . Enlisted Cork 1865
    Michael Kiley Private 2nd Battalion Enlisted Ireland

    Members of Rorke’s Drift Garrison with Irish names and possible Irish Connections.

    Patrick Desmond Private 1st Battalion
    William Horrigan Private 1st Battalion
    Thomas Buckley Private 2nd Battalion
    Anthony Connors Private 2nd Battalion
    John Fagan Private 2nd Battaloin
    John Murphy Private 2nd Battalion
    ?? McMahon Private Army Hospital Corps
    Louis Byrne Acting Commissariat Officer

    Irish killed in action at Rorke’s Drift ; John Fagan , Patrick Hayden , William Horrigan and Louis Byrne .[/QUOTE]


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] "49 were English, 18 Monmouthshire,16 Irish, 1 Scottish, 14 Welsh and 21 of unknown nationality[/FONT]" [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]'The Noble 24th. by Norman Holme Looks like more Irish than Welsh. the 24th Regiment of Foot [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]was formerly the Warwickshire Regiment .[/FONT]

    Monmouthshire is in Wales so there were 32 Welshmen. Twice as many as Irish


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,543 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Jesus. wrote: »
    Monmouthshire is in Wales so there were 32 Welshmen. Twice as many as Irish


    It is now. At the time of Rorkes Drift it was considered more english than welsh.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    It used to be in England?


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