new licence category will it bring more to the sport

robs1

i see there is a new a4 category coming next year into the sport.i only do the odd leisure tour but with this new cat i might look into it.i have thought about getting into it before but didnt want to make a fool of myself.but i suppose with this cat it eases you in.im 29 now and only started cycling 2 years ago so this would be a good start into competitive cycling.any thoughts people

Chips Lovell

Does anyone know anything about it?

Chips Lovell

Just saw that there's a bit about it on the CI website. Am going to be an A4 myself it appears.

blorg

Sounds like a lot of sense, Cat 3 races are not exactly a cakewalk, this might encourage more people to give it a go.

Raam

So are we all gonna be in this new cat?

blorg

Basically A4 is for 3rd cats with no points on their license. If you have points you go into A3. S2s without points drop to A3. It also seems they are merging the Vets and Women into these new cats, which makes a lot of sense, there are certainly Vets better than an average Cat 3.

Full details here

Zipp101

Ouch!
Not sure they thought it through.
This new A4 category will be a huge step back for strong S3's with no points who were ready to give it a good lash next season.A lot of my clubmates will fall into this category.The new system will also be a headache for race organisers -four races to sort rather than three.

As a junior the old system would have suited me more.(The prospect of racing with B Cat riders seems a bit crazy tbh...) But will hopefully "develop" me in the long haul.

The CI document was a bit vague when explaining exactly who will be competing in the A4 category "vets in it for a bit of fun" or "under-developed juniors".Where is the category for the "vets in it for a bit of cash"?

Another interesting bit was that points would be awarded for league races.This is overcomplicating what should be a more simple system.God help the person who is to keep track of this.

---

Cycling Ireland have simply had enough with the Freds so have decided to give them thier own category!

Bikerbhoy

Is this only a proposal to be approved or is it all set up and ready to go for next season ?

Zipp101

Bikerbhoy wrote: »

Is this only a proposal to be approved or is it all set up and ready to go for next season ?

They want feedback first.

blorg

@Zipp- maybe the minute you get points you are yanked out of A4, e.g. don't have to stay there until next season to be upgraded?

They are obviously letting S2 without points who want to, stay in A2... so maybe just suggest the same with S3 who want to stay in A3?

The main aim of A4 as far as I can tell is to promote participation, not as an attempt to downgrade existing A3s who are happy there- New Women riders and “Underdeveloped” juniors being mentioned for A4.

With regard to juniors racing with A2s, this is only for top juniors. The idea of sticking all juniors, vets and women together surely made far less sense given the enormous gulf of ability within these categories?

The point about another race to organise is taken.

However, as for "Vets just in it for a bit of fun." I do not believe this category of rider exists, I think they mean the cat of "canny conniving bastards that will get you to do all the work before finally discovering their legs in the final 500m."

biker_joe

not sure they thought about this either.....
I wonder did they work out how many points are on offer each season !!! and in each province !!

It seems there is less and less separate Category races each year... and how are clubs are going to run an A4 race as well as the rest of the other Cats ...

I reckon there will be more handicapped races with stupid time gaps so therefore less points on offer !!!

Only my 2 cents ....... I will an A2 asking to stay as an A2.....

Biker Joe

blorg

Another thing to consider- could the "extra race" issue be mitigated by the idea there is no longer a need for seperate races for vets, women and juniors? How common were these as opposed to sticking in with the Cat3s? Can only presume A1 and A2 will generally still race together.

bcmf

blorg wrote: »

However, as for "Vets just in it for a bit of fun." I do not believe this category of rider exists, I think they mean the cat of "canny conniving bastards that will get you to do all the work before finally discovering their legs in the final 500m."

Cynical, Blorg. Very very cynical.:p True as it is

Rob Fowl tried to explain this to me and I picked it up as this
Cat 1: pros-full timers
Cat 2: full timers and semi animal
Cat 3: riders who think they are good but just dont quite cut it
Cat 4: Every other pleb who can balance on a bike and cause mayhem by jumping on their brakes for no fooking reason.*




*this may include me

RobFowl

bcmf wrote: »

Cynical, Blorg. Very very cynical.:p True as it is

Rob Fowl tried to explain this to me and I picked it up as this
Cat 1: pros-full timers
Cat 2: full timers and semi animal
Cat 3: riders who think they are good but just dont quite cut it
Cat 4: Every other pleb who can balance on a bike and cause mayhem by jumping on their brakes for no fooking reason.*
Cat 5 Triathletes



*this may include me

Fixed that BCMF

RobFowl

el tonto wrote: »

Does anyone know anything about it?

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/html/site/cyclingireland/story.jsp?id=1423

Peterx

A4 is a great idea.
I tried a couple of s3 races a few years ago and found them exhilarating but hard. The level was surprisingly high - there was no way I'd be able to bring any of my (busier, less fit) mates to a race and now there is. magic.

Club spins and races are still probably the best route into racing though?

Totally agree on the canny old lads, all i remember is being shouted at by an old fella from behind for two hours who then blasted past in the finishing sprint...

Junior

I didn't think you had to wait that long anyways during the year to change cat's anyways ?

Jumpy

blorg wrote: »

Basically A4 is for 3rd cats with no points on their license. If you have points you go into A3. S2s without points drop to A3. It also seems they are merging the Vets and Women into these new cats, which makes a lot of sense, there are certainly Vets better than an average Cat 3.

Full details here

Are you sure this isnt for the Animals and Pets forum?

Brian Hennessy

I'm a vet and would love to try open races but an have nowhere near the abiilty and talent (or work ethic) of Mr. Engermann or Mr. Wyley (much respect to them) etc.. Now i can go racing! These new categories are a great idea, hope they happen.

There'll always be a few the changes might not suit e.g. S3s with no points, but if they're that good they should get upgraded very quickly.

Well done Cycling Ireland

Zipp101

Brian Hennessy wrote: »

but have nowhere near the abiilty and talent (or work ethic) of Mr. Engermann or Mr. Wyley (much respect to them) etc..

Or the time I'm sure.

As a point of interest one of the two gentlemen mentioned does not work and the other works twice a week and has done all his working career.Just examples to show that time and dedication are both neccessary for success.

Quigs Snr

I reckon its all down to the race organisers. You can bet that most races with be A3 and A4 combined with prizes for the best unplaced A4's.

blorg

Just saw this on irishcycling.com

4. (a) Newcomers to the sport and persons who have been out of S3 competition for a minimum of 3 years may apply for a A4 licence subject to the approval of the National Grading Officer
(b) A4s on amassing 10 points will be upgraded to A3s.

Reading that it certainly doesn't seem like the intention is to push any current S3s down to A4, rather seems if you have raced as an S3 it is up to you to justify your getting an A4 license!

the_doctor

el tonto wrote: »

Does anyone know anything about it?

The America system has generally separate fields for men and women.

Men are cat 1-5.
Women are cat 1-4.

Most races have races for cat 1-3, 3, 4, 5, or 4/5. They also have have a womens's 1-3, women's 4. Plus, they have a whole bunch of junior races. They might even have 5 separate masters races.

They can easily start 10 separate fields.

I was in a race with two separate cat 5 fields. The cat 5 was separated by age.

The upcoming Jamestown RI 2009 race has 4 or 5 cat 5 races, cat 4 race, junior races, women races, masters races, and NO 1-2 race!!

Brian Hennessy

Ah, ZIPP101, that's how they do it. I have been amazed how some guys are so dedicated. Even to be an average S3 a phenominal amount of time is needed. Not having to endure the mundanities of a 9-5 would certainly help! As for a wife and kids.......

smithslist

Brian Hennessy wrote: »

Even to be an average S3 a phenominal amount of time is needed.

most true, surviving a S3 race is a big challenge esp for beginners, but this is where club races and club training help you alot. And also from S3 to S2 is a big jump to do in terms of speed and distance.

I wonder which bunch will have the most crashes next year A3 or A4?????

blorg

smithslist wrote: »

I wonder which bunch will have the most crashes next year A3 or A4?????

Well I am not sure yet which of those I will be in when I start open racing next year...

Chips Lovell

Well that's an incentive if ever there was one to stay ahead of blorg.

dave2pvd

the_doctor wrote: »

The America system has generally separate fields for men and women.

Men are cat 1-5.
Women are cat 1-4.

Most races have races for cat 1-3, 3, 4, 5, or 4/5. They also have have a womens's 1-3, women's 4. Plus, they have a whole bunch of junior races. They might even have 5 separate masters races.

They can easily start 10 separate fields.

I was in a race with two separate cat 5 fields. The cat 5 was separated by age.

The upcoming Jamestown RI 2009 race has 4 or 5 cat 5 races, cat 4 race, junior races, women races, masters races, and NO 1-2 race!!

Let me try to refine this a bit.

In the US, the men's categories are:

P/1/2/3/4/5. Large fields may be split by age; >35, <35. Or, sometimes at age 30. Juniors will often just have Junior A and Junior B, which may cover all ages down to 11. In areas with lots of juniors, there will be more categories. Throw in Masters - some of whom may be cat 1 or 2. Masters may come in different flavors; >35 and >45 would be typical.

Women:

P/1/2/3/4. Junior girls ride with the boys - usually. Depends on the numbers.

Here is a flyer from our recent race day.

I think it's a good idea to introduce another senior category in Ireland, assuming there are enough people racing. I can't imagine only having 3 categories. Although, when our numbers get low for an event, combinations such as P/1/2, 3/4 and 4/5 are made. So, I suppose those 3 groupings correspond to A, B and C. Which is pretty horrific for 2s and 5s.