Suggestions for improving the forum/Forum Changes

Amtmann

Okay, we'll take it from here:

Furet, I reckon some schemes have way too many threads. For instance the M7 has about 5 of them. Of course the one in infrastructure is the only one with photo updates and written progress. Very often people google the M7 but those little threads come up first?

I think the reason the smaller threads come up first is because they're in the C&T forum and get more hits, which makes them more searchable. Obviously this forum was very quiet for a long time and because there was no mod, Infrastructure languished for a while.

I created the M8/N8 update thread here well over a year ago but it was getting very little attention. Then I noticed that C&T already had threads for C-C and C-M and I sort of forgot about this forum and posted over there instead. I even created the M-F and M7/M8 threads in C&T rather than here, again because they get more notice over there.
But I think that's starting to change now, and this forum has become busier in recent months.

KevR

Could search results also be affected by tags?

Say for the M6 Athlone-Ballinasloe thread, it should have the following tags (in my opinion):

• M6 Motorway
• County Roscommon
• Athlone
• Ballinasloe
• Inter Urban Route
• Galway Dublin Motorway
• N6 National Primary Route
• Ireland

Could probably add a few to that. For the M6 Athlone-Ballinasloe thread I have added Roscommon & Ballinasloe as tags I think. I can only add 2 as I'm not the thread creator (who can add 5).

I will change 'Roscommon' to 'County Roscommon' now.

Amtmann

I can add 25 tags to threads in this forum. I'll put a few more on that thread.
I think it would be good to put the tagging facility to greater use; then we can use the tags as an index or find-aids. They will allow threads to show up under the most relevent categories in the 'Infrastructure Index Thread' (which has been stickied, and which anyone can contribute to). As for tags affecting searchability, I haven't a clue about that!

Tech3

I added "Nenagh" and "Limerick" to the tag list on the M7 Motorway thread. Still look what comes up on google:

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=nenagh+to+limerick&start=0&sa=N

Sponge Bob

Furet , if I start a thread I see ( below the main box where teh body of the message goes )

"You may add 5 tag(s) to this thread."

I take it that is standard for a user but can a mod edit that first post and add MORE tags by any chance ???

I started "The Mysterious Thread" to test this, have a crack and delete "The Mysterious Thread" once you arrive at a conclusion

Amtmann

Duly deleted. Please don't do that again. My powers are far beyond your comprehension, SpongeBob!

And yes, a mod can add 25 tags to any thread within their forum.

KevR

tech2 wrote: »

I added "Nenagh" and "Limerick" to the tag list on the M7 Motorway thread. Still look what comes up on google:

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=nenagh+to+limerick&start=0&sa=N

If tags do effect Google searches then it will take a day or so (I'm not sure how long really, it might even take longer) for the search results to be different to reflect the new tags. Google don't update thir stuff instantly from what I have heard.

Amtmann

In addition many threads outside this forum have been tagged with the same tag in order to unify the subject matter.

serfboard

I have no problem with the different sections on some roads being discussed in different threads. Some people, who live/work near particular sections may only be interested in that section of the road, and not in the whole road.

As well as which, certain threads attract enough contributions to merit their own separate discussions.

I think a case-by-case approach is needed. For instance, the N/M18 is not attracting enough at present to have a separate Crusheen->Gort thread.

Amtmann

I agree with the above. Where many sections of the same road are being built concurrently one single thread would probably lose coherence.

Tech3

serfboard wrote: »

I think a case-by-case approach is needed. For instance, the N/M18 is not attracting enough at present to have a separate Crusheen->Gort thread.

The M18/M17 PPP should be in a different thread though IMO as some of it is not the M18. I would like to see a creation of this thread soon.

BluntGuy

How can the forum be improved? Well people should be more encouraged to get the ol' crayons out. It may look slightly silly and one could argue it's pointless since the ideas people come up with here will most likely never be implemented... but I think it's always interesting to see different approaches to problems that board members here might take.

Mysterious' junction diagrams are a key example of this I think. Despite some of them being arguably impossible to implement, at least it got the debate started and a lively (if somewhat heated) discussion going.

Amtmann

I would also like to see more diagrams and mysterious will be back soon with a new diagram, I am reliably informed.

Sponge Bob

Furet wrote: »

And yes, a mod can add 25 tags to any thread within their forum.

Grand so we can PM a mod with tags once we run out then

For the M6 Galway Ballinasloe thread I suggest

athenry, athlone, ballinasloe, loughrea , cappataggle , cappataggle toll , loughrea , oranmore, claregalway , bridge, bypass, galway, infrastructure, interurban route, m6 motorway, median, motorway, nra , fastest galway, day trip galway , daytrip galway , 2 hours drive dublin , 2 hours drive galway ,

Amtmann

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Grand so we can PM a mod with tags once we run out then

For the M6 Galway Ballinasloe thread I suggest

athenry, athlone, ballinasloe, loughrea , cappataggle , cappataggle toll , loughrea , oranmore, claregalway , bridge, bypass, galway, infrastructure, interurban route, m6 motorway, median, motorway, nra , fastest galway, day trip galway , daytrip galway , 2 hours drive dublin , 2 hours drive galway ,

I will look on any such PMs as visual pollution and won't be best pleased! Back on topic...

Carawaystick

We should try get more non road infrastructure on here.
the postcode thing
power grids/gas
phone/broadband/telecom/radio transmission stuff

Amtmann

I agree. There's only one way to do that however: start the threads. I have added those categories to the stickied Index thread, so people should take a look there. I have no problem with an old thread from this forum being bumped. Infrastructure is a very long-term thing after all. The Spirit of Ireland thread has slipped down the charts, but it's a great discussion. Under signage we have another thread, started a few years ago by Victor, relating to Irish placenames replacing English placenames. All of these things can and should be discussed here, but it's up to posters to contribute, if they so wish.

Amtmann

I just noticed the exclusively Irish focus of this forum. I'd like to see more international infrastructure projects covered too, so if anyone's interested, work away...

ihatewallies

Impossible to improve this forum

Amtmann

Big movement of threads last night. What do the M6'ers think we should do about the two M6 motorway threads? Lock one, or merge both?

bk

Carawaystick wrote: »

We should try get more non road infrastructure on here.
....
phone/broadband/telecom/radio transmission stuff

Yes, these are infrastructure, but I think they are already well covered in the IrelandOffLine, Broadband and Cable and Digital TV forums.

Sponge Bob

Move them all back and Ban Victor

Seriously the Infrastructure forum should include all large fibre initiatives ( only fibre ) and associated policy and planning issues of which there are none !!!

I am planning GE-PON in my area at the moment .

Amtmann

bk wrote: »

Yes, these are infrastructure, but I think they are already well covered in the IrelandOffLine, Broadband and Cable and Digital TV forums.

Out of curiosity bk, in your forum is there a greater emphasis on how broadband, etc. functions once it has been installed, or do you cover plans to roll it out as well?

****

Infrastructure Index Thread duly updated with numerous sub-categories.

Sponge Bob

The only 'rollout' possible is fibre , everything else is 'rolled' . That is why I suggested that large scale fibre and ducting be covered here and nothing else .

A couple of mickey mouse bits of copper and replacement copper and slow stuttery wireless is irrelevant . We either do it big or we die, economically .

serfboard

Furet wrote: »

Big movement of threads last night. What do the M6'ers think we should do about the two M6 motorway threads? Lock one, or merge both?

Lock the Athlone->Ballinalsoe one ... or, if there is still demand move it to C&T. The road is finished (more or less).

Furet wrote: »

I just noticed the exclusively Irish focus of this forum. I'd like to see more international infrastructure projects covered too, so if anyone's interested, work away...

You don't even have to go that far. How about Northern Ireland roads? For example:

• The A1 Newry Bypass
• The A2 Derry->Airport Road
• The A4 Dungannon-Ballygawley Road

These and other schemes can be found here.

BluntGuy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

That is why I suggested that large scale fibre and ducting be covered here and nothing else.

I agree. That is all that's needed in this forum.

Sponge Bob

Fibre ducting should be added to all Main Roads , Sewer Schemes , Regional water schemes, Replacement Pipe schemes , Gas Pipelines ( that is done I think) , Railway alignments , New Housing estates etc, New and Rebuilt footpaths to housing estates .

After 20 years we would have quite a lot of it .

The ducting should then be allocated to a 'special' local government services entity that actively maps and exercises these wayleaves and actively gets fibre into it .

It will take 20 years before there is a lot of ducting but it would be better than today where there is virtually nothing and we are behind countries with proper plans to install it like Estonia , Australia , Holland , New Zealand, Korea , Japan ,

Like is the ESB putting fibre down with the new UK Lekky Interconnector, if not why not ???

KevR

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Like is the ESB putting fibre down with the new UK Lekky Interconnector, if not why not ???

Apparently, 20+ years ago (not sure when it was built) when part of the Galway ring road was being planned, someone from the ESB went along to a meeting with the poeple responsible for planning/developing the road and asked if they could plan it so that the ESB could put some ducting in while the road was being built. This was to save the ESB from having to do expensive digging in future, avoid any disruption and avoid any damage to the road. He was basically told to mind his own business and the road was built without the ducting. I presume the planners just weren't arsed at making the extra little bit of effort to organise/co-ordinate the laying of the ducting.

Over the last few months the ESB have been digging the cycle path and footpath on this stretch to lay new cables, causing some late evening/night time lane closures on the road.

That's what we're up against - people who really couldn't be arsed.

BluntGuy

KevR wrote: »

That's what we're up against - people who really couldn't be arsed.

Unfortunately, 'tis the case with most things in this country.

However, as interesting as this discussion is getting, I'll have to cut it short, we need to bring this thread back to discussing forum improvements.

This topic deserves a thread all to itself.

bk

Furet wrote: »

Out of curiosity bk, in your forum is there a greater emphasis on how broadband, etc. functions once it has been installed, or do you cover plans to roll it out as well?

Furet, I'm a mod on the Cable and Digital TV forums only, however I'm a regular contributor to the IrelandOffLine and Broadband forum.

You are correct, the Broadband forum tends to be posts about how to get broadband and issues with it.

However the IrelandOffLine forum tends to be very heavily focused on communications infrastructure and strategy on how to improve it and a lot of experts in this area tend to visit this forum.

Don't get me wrong, you are more then welcome to talk about it here, themore the merrier, I'll join in myself, just saying that many of the experts who regularly visit IOFFL mightn't think of looking here.

serfboard

serfboard wrote: »

How about Northern Ireland roads? For example:

• The A1 Newry Bypass

There already is a thread about it here. Should that C&T thread not be moved here too?

Amtmann

serfboard wrote: »

There already is a thread about it here. Should that C&T thread not be moved here too?

Negotiations for another transfer are underway; we should have another 5 or 6 key threads moved here in due course. That one will probably slip through though. Duplication is unavoidable sometimes. I think at some point we just have to accept that there will always be an overlap between the two fora. The situation is being ameliorated however, and pretty soon people will get the message.

By the way, in case any of our newer posters missed this, you should read it.

Amtmann

So, how are we doing?
To me the forum seems to be buzzing now, with a great variety of quality threads on different topics. I'm not sure how much more traffic the forum is generating at present (I'll ask one of the techs when they're not so busy), but I regularly see 20 or more users browsing these pages of late. So thanks guys for making this place the great forum that it is. And of course, keep the feedback coming here whenever you wish to raise a matter for discussion.

Sponge Bob

Furet wrote: »

So, how are we doing?
To me the forum seems to be buzzing now, with a great variety of quality threads on different topics..

It is top heavy with roads that will not be built for years if ever.

The Telecoms Infrastructure thread gets very few contributions unless Dubhthach and I do it .

Electricity/Grid 0 ..outside Spirit of Ireland
Gas 0
Ports and Ferries 0
Sewers 0
Bicycles 0
Integrated GIS and all the above 0

apart from that it is comprehensive I suppose!

Amtmann

Well, we have a great broadband thread going - that's down to dubhthach, you and Bk mostly. I also started that thread on housing which, hopefully, will grow over time. There is an ESB thread which I bumped a while back, but it's slipped down the charts. As for gas etc. - start the threads!

Roads certainly dominate here, but I think it's unavoidable as, firstly, so many are being built, and, secondly, because many people find the construction phase quite fascinating. Naturally as more projects near completion we can expect a spike in road thread hits, followed by a massive drop in interest. Note how quickly the M9 thread gains views - up 7,000 in a little under two weeks. But once the motorway is complete, the thread will quickly lose hits. I think roads dominate here for another reason too: each scheme can have its own thread, whereas with something like housing or broadband, one general thread usually suffices. These singular threads are, however, usually of a very high standard - as your broadband thread clearly exemplifies.

If the Spirit of Ireland project kicks off I'd expect that to become a massive, photo-laden topic with several threads. Similarly I'd like to see metro and interconnector threads with photos dominate here when the time comes.

I suppose one thing we are missing is an (anti-road?) Green perspective. Something else I'd like to see is for more use to be made of the 'Rate Thread' function. I usually rate threads myself, but in order for the stars to show, several other people must also rate it.

nordydan

I have to say the split has been done every well, well done mods. I find myself now that nearly all threads of interest are in the Infrastructure forum, and only a few in C&T (as I don't commute to work).

I see there is a thread about estimated opening dates of schemes. If there was a sticky post of all the U/C schemes and the their guestimated opening dated in chronological order that would be very handy for the occasional browser. It also means that one wouldn't miss any revisions to projected opening dates by not seeing a post in a thread.

BluntGuy

As you may have noticed, all the road-related threads have now been moved to a new sub-forum:

Roads Forum:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1394

This was done for a number of reasons. Many posters shared the view that the abundance of road-related threads were dominating the Infrastructure forum. It was observed that good-quality threads on other forms of Infrastructure were shoved down quickly due to posts on road-related threads being made more quickly. This is no-one's "fault", many of the regular posters here are just more interested in roads.

With this split however, hopefully we will be able to expand discussion. Non-road Infrastructure topics will now be given room to breathe. This of course does not mean we're expecting a sudden surge in posting, as obviously it's up to individual users where they want to post and what they want to post on. If all people are interested in are the roads, then all of the old threads are still there ready to be continued (with tagging, indexing etc. all in place as before, just in different sub-forum.) We understand it may take a little getting used to, but with this new sub-forum, more indepth postings or threads about smaller schemes can be freely created without the necessity to have to merge or delete to keep from getting cluttered.

However, since there is essentially a blank canvas in a manner of speaking from which to craft a new, more expanded Infrastructure forum over time, if there's any suggestions they would be much appreciated.

Jayuu

BluntGuy wrote: »

...with this new sub-forum, more indepth postings or threads about smaller schemes can be freely created without the necessity to have to merge or delete to keep from getting cluttered.

Given the road building plans for the next few years all we're going to have to talk about will be the smaller schemes!

But it does make more sense to split the forum. As somebody who is more interested in the road network it will be easier to nagivate.

Amtmann

Folks, just after noticing that the DART Underground thread now has almost 900 posts. I'm of the view that threads of this length can be really hard for newcomers to get in to.

Just wondering if any of you think there's a better way of breaking up the DU discussion into more manageable bits. I'm not talking about splitting the current thread, more starting new threads to deal with different parts of DU. This is just an idea by the way. I need your suggestions/opinions first before I decide whether or not to do anything.

Thanks