Reaction to Hazard!!.

Kimmy-XxX

So I'm just back from my pre test, my actual test is next friday. I would have passed no problem except one grade 3 that I seem to be having a major problem with - reaction to hazard. Basically, I was driving along a narrow road and there were cars parked to my right, thus, my way was clear to proceed. A massive tractor came racing down the road, swerved out to avoid the parked cars and forced me onto the footpath to avoid a head on collison. My instructor agreed that the tractor should have stopped, the obstruction being on his side, but because he didn't, i gained myself a grade 3 for not reacting, ie stopping and allowing the tractor to get through. I understand that I deserved the fault, I shouid have anticipated the problem but I'm worried that I didn't. What if this happens the day of my test? And how can I ensure I react properly next time? It doesn't seem like something I can practice like reversing around the corner or observation because every situation that requires a safe reaction and some anticipation will be different. With my test fast approaching I'm terrified I'm going to throw away a lot of money I've spent on lessons and a lot of time pracitising and waiting for my test date all because I can't anticipate what's going to happen next.! Any advice will be greatly appreciated

Permabear

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Kimmy-XxX

found that video very helpful!. it seems like a technique that should be shown to all drivers, not just gardai/advanced drivers. It would encourage concentration on exactly what you're doing at all times and prevent distractions. I'm going to try this out over the next few days, hope it works for me

Wishbone Ash

Kimmy-XxX wrote: »

A massive tractor came racing down the road, swerved out to avoid the parked cars and forced me onto the footpath to avoid a head on collison. My instructor agreed that the tractor should have stopped, the obstruction being on his side, but because he didn't, i gained myself a grade 3 for not reacting, ie stopping and allowing the tractor to get through

If you meet a large/slow//heavy vehicle in that situation and you are driving a small vehicle like a car, there is a school of thought which says that it is much easier for you to pull over and wait even though you may technically have right of way. This is especially true if the slow/heavy vehicle is going uphill as it is much easier to pull up a car and continue a few seconds later whereas stopping a tractor/truck can involve many cumbersome gear changes with the sudden loss of momentum. By pulling over and giving way, you are demonstrating to the examiner that you appreciate the difficulties being experienced by the drivers of awkward vehicles.

(I speak from much experience of driving large and unwieldly agricultural machinery through busy Dublin commuter traffic. )

DrivingInfo

Hi OP

If you want an easy way to understand reaction to hazards!

If the road is not clear slow down. There were cars on the right! You should have reduced your speed as the road was not clear, in this situation there was not enough room for you and other traffic.
Then the tractor, slow down more and even stop.

IF you:
Can't see - Slow down.
Road not clear - Slow Down.
You have to ask a question - Slow Down. eg Whats that car doing? Is she going to cross? Can he see me? And so on.

Do it early, this is the key! There is more to it, but these are the basics.

NOW! This you can practice.

Regards

DrivingInfo

donegalfella wrote: »

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This is not something inexperienced drivers find easy and from experience I would say this is why it is part of advanced driving.

Permabear

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The Big Red Button

donegalfella wrote: »

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That's very similar to how my (excellent!) driving instructor taught me. We practiced mostly in an urban environment, and he'd be talking continuously the whole way through the lessons, things like "There's a row of parked cars on the left, any one driver of which could open their door at any minute, have you left enough space?" ; or if we were bit of distance back from a car or van he'd tell me to glance under to see if I could see anything the other side in case there were kids playing behind it that might run out ; so basically as well as constantly talking me through my gear changes and road position etc, he'd also be pointing out every single potential and actual hazard.

He did this from the very begining, so that from the start I was incorporating observation and awareness into the actual physical driving skills. It was so much easier to do it that way, than to learn how to drive and then learn how to observe on top of that.

Also - I think a lot of instructors just get the students to "be seen" to be checking their mirrors every few minutes, to pass the test. My instructor really taught me exactly what to be looking out for each time I checked, and how to react if appropriate.

As the lessons went on, he got me to do the commentary and he'd just add in anything I'd left out as we were going along.

I did the test nearly three years ago, and I still often find myself doing that commentary to myself in my head, and I do think that I'm more aware of potential hazards than other drivers I know.

One thing he said a few times that really stuck with me, was that he couldn't care less how many times his students had to take the test before they passed, just so long as he never had to hear about them being involved in an accident that they could have prevented. Despite this though, he had an excellent first-time pass rate!

DrivingInfo wrote: »

This is not something inexperienced drivers find easy and from experience I would say this is why it is part of advanced driving.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "advanced driving"? I mean, if a learner driver passes their test, it does not by any means imply that they are suddenly an "advanced driver", and to be honest very few drivers will return for more lessons after they pass their test in order to improve their driving.

I was a complete beginner, and I had no experience or even any particular interest in driving when I started, and yet I had no problem at all with picking this technique up from the start.

giddybootz

chatterpillar wrote: »

Also - I think a lot of instructors just get the students to "be seen" to be checking their mirrors every few minutes, to pass the test. My instructor really taught me exactly what to be looking out for each time I checked, and how to react if appropriate.

Can you offer up a bit of info on this please? As i sometimes feel I am flicking over the mirrors as opposed to really 'seeing' with them if you get me.

The Big Red Button

giddybootz wrote: »

Can you offer up a bit of info on this please? As i sometimes feel I am flicking over the mirrors as opposed to really 'seeing' with them if you get me.

OK bearing in mind I obviously have no experience of being a driver instructor and I only passed the test myself relatively recently, I'll tell you what I look for!

When you get into the car and are taking off, you're basically just checking that the road is clear behind you and that you're not going to hit anything moving out. If you're moving onto a road with a lot of traffic on it, you'll learn to judge how much space you have between cars with experience - until you can do that, don't take risks! And always take a quick glance over your right shoulder just before you move out, in case there's something in your blind spot. Make sure you're looking ahead though before you actually start moving.

One quick note for the test - when my brother was doing his test, he swears that the drivers side mirror was in place when he arrived at the centre, but five minutes into the test he noticed it was totally out of position. He reached over and fixed it, but failed the test for not pulling in to do so. He insists that someone at the test centre did it to trick him (paranoid or what!); it was probably like that already, but just in case make sure you check they're right before you start the engine for your test!

Anyways when you're out on the road ... OK, for me, if I'm on a normal road and I'm in the left lane, I find the right-hand mirror and the rear-view mirror to be the more important ones. It depends on the road of course, and you should still have the odd glance into the left-hand mirror, but if you're moving fairly quickly there's unlikely to be anything there that you won't see in the rear-view.

What I'd be looking for is, in the rear view mirror, just keep an eye on what's behind you so you won't be taken by surprise if they overtake you. In particular watch out for any traffic coming up very quickly, as they're likely to try and overtake. Also look out if there is a large heavy vehicle directly behind you, as if you need to slow down or turn off suddenly they might find it hard to slow down quickly enough. Be aware of this coming up to traffic lights too - e.g. if you're coming to the lights fairly fast and there's a huge truck behind you, if they change to orange as you come up to them you should definitely continue through instead of slamming on the brakes!

In the right hand mirror, I suppose you're mainly looking out for overtaking traffic, although you should be prepared for this if you're watching the rear-view mirror. If you're in traffic with a few lanes going the same way, watch out for pushy dangerous drivers that might cut in in front of you.

One thing to note - do not get so distracted with the mirrors that you forget to watch the road and footpaths in front of you! I'm saying a lot of stuff to look for, but all this can and should be check for in a quick glance.

When doing the test, for the reversing around the corner, the mirrors are very handy. I might be wrong here, but usually the corner you're reversing around is to the left of the car yeah? Well just keep watching that the distance between the kerb and the side of the car remains the same all the way round, while also watching the rear-view for traffic coming behind you and the right mirror for other traffic ... also just as you're half-way round, take a quick glance over your right shoulder for traffic you can't see in the mirrors. Don't rush it - there's no time limit for the maneuvere, and it's very important that you get the observation right.

As I said, I'm absolutely not a expert, I'm sure there are others here who can tell you other stuff to be looking for!

giddybootz

Thanks for taking the time to type that all out...really appreciate it!

DrivingInfo

HI
chatterpillar and donegalfella

I am just pointing out the advanced driving issue.

Do you know you can Fail your driving test if you use some of the Advanced Driving techniques.

Regards

The Big Red Button

DrivingInfo wrote: »

HI
chatterpillar and donegalfella

I am just pointing out the advanced driving issue.

Do you know you can Fail your driving test if you use some of the Advanced Driving techniques.

Regards

What techniques precisely?

Besides which, when preparing for the test, isn't it more important to work on becoming as good and safe a driver as you can, than focusing solely on that one half-hour of the test? I mean, of course it's great to pass the test first time, but it's not the most important thing and it's irresponsible to imply otherwise.

DrivingInfo

chatterpillar wrote: »

What techniques precisely?

Here is one: Positioning!

Besides which, when preparing for the test, isn't it more important to work on becoming as good and safe a driver as you can, than focusing solely on that one half-hour of the test? I mean, of course it's great to pass the test first time, but it's not the most important thing and it's irresponsible to imply otherwise.

I have been teaching a long time and use some of the advanced techniques like observation and I also say that there is more to driving than the test. When you look at the video above, what comes to mind: a driver with about 2-3 lessons thinks that is how they should drive.

As a Qualified Driving Instructor I can say that you only introduce that type of driving to a driver who has the ability to control the vehicle in normal driving.

In other words: They can drive. even if they are on a learner permit.
This is why I'm pointing out that it is advanced driving.

Regards

The Big Red Button

I'm sorry, I really don't understand. What aspects of "positioning" or "observation" could make you fail your driving test? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just genuinely curious? I thought good road positioning and good observation skills would be part of the fundamentals of teaching someone to drive.

DrivingInfo

chatterpillar wrote: »

I'm sorry, I really don't understand. What aspects of "positioning" or "observation" could make you fail your driving test? I'm not arguing with you, I'm just genuinely curious? I thought good road positioning and good observation skills would be part of the fundamentals of teaching someone to drive.

Sometimes when learning observation is over done and/or timed incorrectly (Not for an experienced driver as they could cope and time it correctly) and if over done and/or timed incorrectly in this way on a test they will fail.

And then the position: Well in AD (Advanced Driving) it is recommended you move to an inner or outer position of your lane depending on the bend ahead. Say the road ahead bends to the left, you would move out to the line so that you will have a better line of site into the bend.
You can fail your driving test for doing this and it is always subject to the situation and the ability of the driver.

I hope this explains why learners should learn to drive and then move to the AD information.

Regards

Permabear

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brian076

DrivingInfo wrote: »

And then the position: Well in AD (Advanced Driving) it is recommended you move to an inner or outer position of your lane depending on the bend ahead. Say the road ahead bends to the left, you would move out to the line so that you will have a better line of site into the bend.
You can fail your driving test for doing this and it is always subject to the situation and the ability of the driver.

Regards

I really don't think this is correct, I've never heard of anyone failing their test for being in the correct positon on a bend, and the correct position is the same whether you're a beginner or advanced driver.

However, it's possible that an inexperienced driver may exaggerate their position, ie, be too close to the left, or the centre of the road as the case may be, which could result in a fault on the driving test.

Permabear

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DrivingInfo

Ok the only thing I can say at this point is, “why is Advanced Driving separate from learning to drive?”

Why would an ADI Tester (These are the people from the Irish government who test the Driving Instructors) tell me that some driving instructors failed their ADI exams for using Advanced Driving Techniques? Well as he said: They are not teaching Advanced Driving!

I do agree Advanced Driving is excellent and I use it myself, But only when I see that the driver can deal with it (This may be after 5, 7, 10 lessons or whatever) and understand the timing.

Anyone who teaches driving for a living will admit that the timing (Gears, Mirrors, pedals, position, observation and so on) is always a major facture in learning and if the learner can’t get this right, they should not learn Advanced Driving Techniques until such time that they have.

A little point: "By the way learning to drive does not mean pass the test".

Regards

Permabear

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DrivingInfo

donegalfella wrote: »

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I'm a Qualified Driving Instructor as is many others in here and I would say our job is much harder than an advanced Driving Instructor for the simple reason, we teach people who don't know how to drive where they teach people who can drive. We have to start at the very beginning and in a lot of cases we don't get the chance to do any more than get them through the test

"Advanced driving" involves becoming expert not only in urban driving, but in a wide range of driving situations not covered under the basic L-test, such as open-road driving, motorway driving, country-road driving, driving at night and in inclement weather, and so on.

Is everyone who knows Advanced Driving a driving instructor? Ans: NO, There is a lot to learn before this!

There is a very good argument to be made that separating so-called "advanced driving" from "learner driving" lulls the newly licenced driver into a false sense of security about his ability behind the wheel. And yet few fatal accidents happen in a town centre at 50 km/h at 3 in the afternoon.

Driving Instructors try to do as much as they can in the time they have and this is why we have to do exams.
Basic Structure! Start, Middle and End.

Regards

Permabear

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DrivingInfo

OK you are missing the point.

Look at the video again and then take it into consideration that a poster asked this question to a post,

Can you offer up a bit of info on this please? As I sometimes feel I am flicking over the mirrors as opposed to really 'seeing' with them if you get me.

So my point is: a driver who can't use the mirrors correctly looks at the video and is led to believe that it is the way they should drive when they are clearly not ready.

Look how fast he is driving. My originally point: there is a reason it is advanced driving, you must be able to drive to a standard before you do it.

How many time do i need to say it, It should be introduced when the driver is ready!!!!!! I'm not say it shouldn't be done.

I was just making the point that it is "Advanced Driving" and you even said it in your post.

Originally Posted by donegalfella View Post

When it comes to anticipation, many advanced drivers use a technique called "commentary driving," where they keep up a running commentary on what they see, what might happen next, how they are reacting, and so on.

Regards

zynaps

DrivingInfo wrote: »

So my point is: a driver who can't use the mirrors correctly looks at the video and is led to believe that it is the way they should drive when they are clearly not ready.

Look how fast he is driving. My originally point: there is a reason it is advanced driving, you must be able to drive to a standard before you do it.

How many time do i need to say it, It should be introduced when the driver is ready!!!!!! I'm not say it shouldn't be done.

I was just making the point that it is "Advanced Driving" and you even said it in your post.

In the video, the instructor is driving on a country road in daytime with very little traffic. Are you suggesting that a learner driver will see this video and immediately start driving at 120kph around the city? Surely not. Although someone who is just learning to operate the car properly, struggling with the clutch, gears and judging turns might be better off leaving commentary driving alone until they're reasonably comfortable in the car, of course.

And regarding the other post made by chatterpillar, as he said those are basic techniques that every driver should learn very early. You wouldn't expect someone to do six or seven lessons and becoming "advanced" before they ever look in a mirror, would you?

It was just good advice for any driver, novice or expert. As a learner facing my first driving test next month, I certainly appreciate tips about using mirrors more efficiently and judging situations (e.g. I hadn't thought of braking earlier and more gently with a heavy vehicle following me, or yielding to them when I technically have right of way, since it's much easier for me to do so).