Insurance on commercial Jeep

Bailey01

Hi
just wondering if anyone might be able to advise me. I recently bought a relatively new car not knowing that i would now be turning around to buy a cheap jeep for pulling a horse box in addition to having the car. Would those of you who know have any advise as to which would be the cheaper option for me in the long run -- getting a commercial jeep with cheaper tax but seperate insurance policy or buying a passenger jeep onto which I can transfer the car insurance when needed but with the much higher tax? Cant seem to even get a rough estimate from insurance brokers as to the average cost of insurance given that based on my very small budget I dont yet know exactly the type, size etc of the jeep. Over all just wondering is there much of a difference really in the long run between the two options??
Thanks a million for any advise you may have!

Theanswers

Get a commercial jeep, throw seats in the back if need be. Cheap tax cheap insurance.....
Best of both worlds, check to make sure insurance covers you should do if seats are fitted by a garage. Techincally.
Just avoid customs. But there no where to be seen!

5 mins would also throw seats in and out. So when you have passenger have them in, no passengers take them out.... simple!

R.O.R

Theanswers wrote: »

Get a commercial jeep, throw seats in the back if need be. Cheap tax cheap insurance.....
Best of both worlds, check to make sure insurance covers you should do if seats are fitted by a garage. Techincally.
Just avoid customs. But there no where to be seen!

5 mins would also throw seats in and out. So when you have passenger have them in, no passengers take them out.... simple!

Worst advice ever, and I think in breach of the Motors Charter.

OP - probably best to get a commercial Jeep and insure it full time. If you are transfering insurance from one vehicle to another you'll always have something sitting around uninsured.

BeardyGit

Theanswers wrote: »

Get a commercial jeep, throw seats in the back if need be. Cheap tax cheap insurance.....
Best of both worlds, check to make sure insurance covers you should do if seats are fitted by a garage. Techincally.
Just avoid customs. But there no where to be seen!

5 mins would also throw seats in and out. So when you have passenger have them in, no passengers take them out.... simple!

I suspect a few readers here might be inclined to call you an idiot. I'm not of course calling you names, but I could certainly understand why they might think that....

OP, commercial jeep is the way to go here. You can throw all the tack and muddy boots, feed and the rest in the back, enjoy relatively cheap tax, and if you shop around cheap enough insurance too..... None of us here can quote you for that last bit of course, so you'll just have to get the phone book out and start ringing around.

In terms of what kind of 4x4 to buy, think older and japanese and you probably won't go too far wrong. And there'll be a lot of tradesmen trying to get rid of their commercials at the moment, so you should get one for a fair enough price too....

Whatever you go for, you'll save yourself enough on tax by going commercial instead of passenger to pay for a second policy - My 'rover cost €935 to tax as a passenger vehicle, and one DOE and a bit of welding later, it's cost me €288 to tax! That's the guts of €650 which more than covers the cost of my insurance policy... You get the idea.

steppen

Theanswers wrote: »

Get a commercial jeep, throw seats in the back if need be. Cheap tax cheap insurance.....
Best of both worlds, check to make sure insurance covers you should do if seats are fitted by a garage. Techincally.
Just avoid customs. But there no where to be seen!

5 mins would also throw seats in and out. So when you have passenger have them in, no passengers take them out.... simple!

Great user name, I'd put the word 'wrong' in the middle if I were you.

OP disregard the advice in the quoted post.
What Gil_Dub said is the best option.

Bailey01

Thanks a million everyone for your advise. After some shopping around today got fairly competitive insturance on a commercial trooper and that combined with the tax is still a lot less than the tax on passenger alone so I pleased with that. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction!
Just a bit concerned about being stopped by Guards with a commercial, even with tax and the commercial insurance all in order can I get in trouble? I know I will be taxed and insured but technically I prob shouldnt have a commercial just for the sole purpose of a horse box should I? i will obviously have no vat number, trade , name of company that I allegedly work for etc etc. Could that be a serious problem for me?

vw4life

Bailey01 wrote: »

Thanks a million everyone for your advise. After some shopping around today got fairly competitive insturance on a commercial trooper and that combined with the tax is still a lot less than the tax on passenger alone so I pleased with that. Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction!
Just a bit concerned about being stopped by Guards with a commercial, even with tax and the commercial insurance all in order can I get in trouble? I know I will be taxed and insured but technically I prob shouldnt have a commercial just for the sole purpose of a horse box should I? i will obviously have no vat number, trade , name of company that I allegedly work for etc etc. Could that be a serious problem for me?

what did you tell the insurance company you're using the jeep for?

Bailey01

Was on to a good few insurance brokers and to insurance companies directly themselves. Many of the brokers said they wouldnt do it if it wasnt used for work, asked for VAT numbers etc. One company that I rang direct quoted me no problem - they quoted for me to be insured on a commercial trooper , I explained that it was just for horse box and they asked my profession along the way too and it it didnt seem to bother them. I specifically asked at the very start did they insure on a commercial if it wasnt used for work purposes and they said no poblem. Suppose once tax and insurance are in order should be ok its just people have been saying it me that I could be in trouble and asked a lot of questions if I was stopped......

peasant

Bailey01 wrote: »

Just a bit concerned about being stopped by Guards with a commercial, even with tax and the commercial insurance all in order can I get in trouble? I know I will be taxed and insured but technically I prob shouldnt have a commercial just for the sole purpose of a horse box should I? i will obviously have no vat number, trade , name of company that I allegedly work for etc etc. Could that be a serious problem for me?

Unfortunately, yes!

Strictly according to the law, a commercial vehicle is supposed to be used for commercial purposes only. As a private user you're supposed to tax it as a private car (i.e. as a passenger car, even if it has no seats in the back).

Hundreds (thousands?) of people have of course flaunted that law in the past and got away with it ...but rumour has it that due to dire governement finances controls on this issue are getting stricter.

vw4life

Bailey01 wrote: »

Was on to a good few insurance brokers and to insurance companies directly themselves. Many of the brokers said they wouldnt do it if it wasnt used for work, asked for VAT numbers etc. One company that I rang direct quoted me no problem - they quoted for me to be insured on a commercial trooper , I explained that it was just for horse box and they asked my profession along the way too and it it didnt seem to bother them. I specifically asked at the very start did they insure on a commercial if it wasnt used for work purposes and they said no poblem. Suppose once tax and insurance are in order should be ok its just people have been saying it me that I could be in trouble and asked a lot of questions if I was stopped......

your well covered as long as you dont give false details,technically I think they've just covered you as a private vehicle policy so your grand,just read all the small print when you get the policy

Theanswers

Everybody is intitled to their own opionion and possibly mine is wrong, however it's a opionion "just that"....

It was just another suggestion to the problem which could and can work.
Sorry if anyone felt it was wrong.

brownacid

Also remember that the VRT on a commercial vechicle is only 50 quid when taking it in from the north

CoDy1

There are plenty of insurers who will insure commercial vehicles even if you dont use it for commercial purposes. You can work in factory 9-5 and insure a commercial vehicle.

As long as you have it taxed and insured, you have nothing to worry about.

A friend of mine's father sold his private car and insured a hyundai accent van just because he has 2 large dogs!

CleoD

peasant wrote: »

Unfortunately, yes!

Strictly according to the law, a commercial vehicle is supposed to be used for commercial purposes only. As a private user you're supposed to tax it as a private car (i.e. as a passenger car, even if it has no seats in the back).

Hundreds (thousands?) of people have of course flaunted that law in the past and got away with it ...but rumour has it that due to dire governement finances controls on this issue are getting stricter.

I'm not sure if this is 100% right. I work for an insurance brokers, and we have a lot of clients on our books who would use their commercial vehicles for dogs, pulling horse boxes etc. We even have retired people who would own some land and use the excuse for having a commercial vehicle as using it to repair walss etc on land and they are all correctly insured and covered to drive on the roads. Once you give the insurance company the correct reason why you have the commercial jeep and they give you the go-ahead and agree to it, then its ok as far as Im aware.

And I dont think you can tax a vehicle as private if there are no seats and windown in the back. Once its commercial, it has to be taxed as such and go through the yearly DOE.

I could be proved wrong on this but Im fairly sure Im correct.

CleoD

If its against the law I dont think an insurer would do it, it would be like insuring someone with a driving ban just to get the premium.

R.O.R

CleoD wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is 100% right. I work for an insurance brokers, and we have a lot of clients on our books who would use their commercial vehicles for dogs, pulling horse boxes etc. We even have retired people who would own some land and use the excuse for having a commercial vehicle as using it to repair walss etc on land and they are all correctly insured and covered to drive on the roads. Once you give the insurance company the correct reason why you have the commercial jeep and they give you the go-ahead and agree to it, then its ok as far as Im aware.

And I dont think you can tax a vehicle as private if there are no seats and windown in the back. Once its commercial, it has to be taxed as such and go through the yearly DOE.

I could be proved wrong on this but Im fairly sure Im correct.

Technically, if a vehicle is taxed for commercial use it should only be used for commercial use. If there is any private use then it should be taxed privatley.

I was under the same impression as you (and drove a commercial for most of a year, taxed commercially but all private use), but earlier this year I was talking to the fleet manager of a very large company with hundreds of vans on the road.

After he had to spend a whole day in court after one of his drivers had been stopped using a vehicle privately, which was taxed commercially. Not sure of the outcome of the court case, but this company now has ALL of their hundreds of vans taxed privately to avoid any further complications.

You can tax a commercial privately - regardless of age it will be taxed under the CC system (even 08 & 09 vans).

With a lack of revenue coming in at the moment from motor vehicles, it wouldn't surprise me if they will start to clamp down on this.

Madame Razz

How can they prove you are using it privately tho.

I mean if it is taxed commercially, insured commercially, and you have a VAT number etc, added to which the vehicle is used 95% for work only, I really don't see how they have recourse on something like this.

R.O.R

Madame Razz wrote: »

How can they prove you are using it privately tho.

I mean if it is taxed commercially, insured commercially, and you have a VAT number etc, added to which the vehicle is used 95% for work only, I really don't see how they have recourse on something like this.

I don't know the whole story behind how it was discovered it was being used privately, but.....

If you are driving around a fully branded VAN at midnight with nothing in the back of it, it's unlikely you are on the way to collect stock.

Madame Razz

Plenty of people drive unbranded commercial vehicles aswell tho.

The driver must have given some lip to the Garda to get pulled on that, seriously.

R.O.R

Hey - I don't make the rules, I'm just confirming them, even in the face of common misconceptions and general common sense.

david

Madame Razz wrote: »

How can they prove you are using it privately tho.

I mean if it is taxed commercially, insured commercially, and you have a VAT number etc, added to which the vehicle is used 95% for work only, I really don't see how they have recourse on something like this.

They can prove that you aren't using it commercially. I hear of people being asked to produce Company Details, Employee details etc in order to tax their commercials. The OP doesn't have a VAT number etc.

oldyouth

Madame Razz wrote: »

How can they prove you are using it privately tho.

I mean if it is taxed commercially, insured commercially, and you have a VAT number etc, added to which the vehicle is used 95% for work only, I really don't see how they have recourse on something like this.

I know that on one particular Sunday morning outside the local golf club, the Gardai set up a checkpoint to catch people using their commercial vehicle for domestic purposes. Hard to argue given the circumstances

Madame Razz

oldyouth wrote: »

I know that on one particular Sunday morning outside the local golf club, the Gardai set up a checkpoint to catch people using their commercial vehicle for domestic purposes. Hard to argue given the circumstances

Depends on your business I suppose.

A lot of deals are done on the golf course afterall.

bog master

Good debate here, lots of valid points and opinions. But what is commercial use? I am self employed and use the motor vehicle to visit clients, do my banking etc. and yes use it for private use.

And for those saying you need to be Vat registered, you need a turnover of 30k plus, otherwise you dont need to register. Not every business, ie myself, has employees. But because of the cheaper road tax and initial price because of lower VRT, I can see why so many go for the commercials.

Madame Razz

And if it is such a big deal then why do accountants advise you to go the commercial route???

david

Because they're accountants. Less tax = win.

bog master

Madame Razz wrote: »

And if it is such a big deal then why do accountants advise you to go the commercial route???

If you purchase a commercial vehicle, you get to reclaim the vat on purchase, services and repairs, and diesel if diesel powered. Furthermore, it becomes an asset, so you write down its value every year which will lessen your tax liability. With a private vehicle, Revenue will allow you 2/3 of the annual running costs, but in the event of an audit, you would want to justify the mileage you would actually incur in your line of business.

Madame Razz

david wrote: »

Because they're accountants. Less tax = win.

You don't say.

They do have a reputation to maintain aswell tho, aswell as needing a relatively healthy relationship with the Revenue

bog master wrote: »

If you purchase a commercial vehicle, you get to reclaim the vat on purchase, services and repairs, and diesel if diesel powered. Furthermore, it becomes an asset, so you write down its value every year which will lessen your tax liability. With a private vehicle, Revenue will allow you 2/3 of the annual running costs, but in the event of an audit, you would want to justify the mileage you would actually incur in your line of business.

I'm aware of that; that's why I'm driving a commercial:rolleyes:


Tbh, my mileage is genuinely high because of my work, and the nature of my work is classified/categorised such that it will be unlikely that this will ever be an issue for me, but it is an interesting thread all the same, and if it is something that they do clamp down on, well, it's going to hurt a lot of people tbh.