does anyone put a bell on the pointer/setter

stevoman

looking forward to this years hunting but im goping to hunt more snipe and woodcock this year than anything else and not really bother with the pheasents.

knowing this im going to be working a lot of heavy cover and woodland and i was thinking about putting a bell on my setter this year.

has anyone got any experience of letting your dog hunt with one of these?

foxhunter

stevoman wrote: »

looking forward to this years hunting but im goping to hunt more snipe and woodcock this year than anything else and not really bother with the pheasents.

knowing this im going to be working a lot of heavy cover and woodland and i was thinking about putting a bell on my setter this year.

has anyone got any experience of letting your dog hunt with one of these?

I've never tried a bell but I do have to put a bright orange collar on my german pointer because if I take my eye off her for a split second I can't see her against the cover.

stevoman

foxhunter wrote: »

I've never tried a bell but I do have to put a bright orange collar on my german pointer because if I take my eye off her for a split second I can't see her against the cover.

it seems to be a good idea and well used on the continent. more times i lost sight of my setter last year due to het being so small and in cover etc, i think i may get her a bell for this year.

EPointer=Birdss

stevoman wrote: »

looking forward to this years hunting but im goping to hunt more snipe and woodcock this year than anything else and not really bother with the pheasents.

knowing this im going to be working a lot of heavy cover and woodland and i was thinking about putting a bell on my setter this year.

has anyone got any experience of letting your dog hunt with one of these?

How far out is your setter working? Unless its a gordon surely the white is enough to keep in touch? Think about it, if he sets the bell won't be moving which won't be much help....

If you want a dog for cover thats that heavy I recommend a Springer. Better craic on woodcock too...
I would think a bell would scare anything within a field...

stevoman

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

How far out is your setter working? Unless its a gordon surely the white is enough to keep in touch? Think about it, if he sets the bell won't be moving which won't be much help....

If you want a dog for cover thats that heavy I recommend a Springer. Better craic on woodcock too...
I would think a bell would scare anything within a field...

TBH she could be ranging at any distance. She was'nt the most solid dog to set last year either (although she has only turned 2 in june this year).

She is very small and in high grass it can be very hard to locate her sometimes.

Is the walking her up on the pidgeon trick the best way to get her steady or what other tricks have setter/pointer men have to staedy the dog up and get them setting or pointing solid?

cavan shooter

while holidaying in France this year I did pick up a couple of rench shooting magazines and noticed that all dogs wore collars with bells some with orange hi viz. Thought it was a good idea too, By the way its a tinkle bell not big ben so I'm not sure about scaring birds.

In relation to my own springer his bulldozer impression through the rushs' will push on birds quicker than a bell.

Anyone know where to get them??

stevoman

i was looking at them on this site. think i might purchase for this year alright.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-bells.html


if i get her setting good and steady i'l be a happy man though!

Vegeta

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

How far out is your setter working? Unless its a gordon surely the white is enough to keep in touch? Think about it, if he sets the bell won't be moving which won't be much help...

Isn't that exactly the point

You can hear where the dog is when the bell is making noise so when it goes quiet, he sets, you know that he has stopped moving and you know the general area the dog is in.

Steve I'd give it a lash anyway.

Also I think working ground where you know there are snipe and using the wind can be a decent way to get the dog up to speed. Snipe sit very tight, their usually fairly good at staying in an area so you know they'll always be there for training purposes. Some of the best shooting we had last year was snipe over the setter.

A lot of people do use the pigeon so I suppose there's merit in it.

We bought a fully trained dog though, sorry I cant be more use to you

EPointer=Birdss

Vegeta wrote: »

Isn't that exactly the point

You can hear where the dog is when the bell is making noise so when it goes quiet, he sets, you know that he has stopped moving and you know the general area the dog is in.

Well if your so out of touch with the dog that you don't know where he is without a bell & only knows he's setting when the bell stops your doing something wrong. Your eyes should never leave them. But hey give it a lash, hope it works out. As mentioned snipe are nice birds to sit so probably wont make any difference.

Have a look on youtube theres plenty of cow bells on dogs. They don't seem to bother the birds much.
Birds near me are wild so wouldn't work. I walked into a field about 30 mins ago with my young springer & I saw a pheasant run for the ditch about 100 yards away. He trailed him for 3 fields before I met him! (BTW 1st flush for the pup) He went nuts! Only 14 weeks, only had him out for a walk whiles checking a few traps... Wasn't actively after birds but hey why waste an oppurtunity... Had him retrieving magpies other night & he's gone crazy!

Vegeta

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Well if your so out of touch with the dog that you don't know where he is without a bell & only knows he's setting when the bell stops your doing something wrong. Your eyes should never leave them. But hey give it a lash, hope it works out.

Setters are ranging hunters, it is intended they work at distance. So in cover they could quite easily go out of sight.

In fact any dog can out of sight in something like an isle or extended cover. Its fine with a springer, he'll just keep moving and you'll spot him again quite quickly. Not so good with a setter who could set out of sight and stay like that for 5 mins.

Anyway loads of people use bells/GPS etc to great success but obviously they're doing something wrong.

stevoman

im definitly going to use one this year as i will be huinting in woodlands etc this year so i guess it will come in handy. as i said i wont be doing much pheasent hunting as they are very scarce round my way and i dont see the point in working hunting all the time with no rewards. also the fact that i have pheasents dropped into me a lot i have no real need to be shooting them.

as far as im aware woodcock and snipe sit very tight so the bell wouldnt make too much of a difference i hope.

EPointer=Birdss

Vegeta wrote: »

Setters are ranging hunters, it is intended they work at distance. So in cover they could quite easily go out of sight.

In fact any dog can out of sight in something like an isle or extended cover. Its fine with a springer, he'll just keep moving and you'll spot him again quite quickly. Not so good with a setter who could set out of sight and stay like that for 5 mins.

Anyway loads of people use bells/GPS etc to great success but obviously they're doing something wrong.

I know all too well how a setting dog works my friend, i train them, I don't buy them trained.
I use springers for heavy cover like groves/woods etc or for a change, up the ditches with one either side.
Our country is very heavy & has alot of rush. My point here is that I watch the dog working, if he disappears for more than a few seconds I try to get back in contact, once i see him & I let him off again. If he doesn't come back he must be pointing & I approach where I saw him last & follow his hunting line. Odds are that you will always find him in a few steps.
If the ground has a lot of cover he should be working over & back across you & not ranging huge distances. The more cover the more for him to work in front of you & he shouldn't be out far unless he's passing ground.
If it was on open field I let them work the full range of the field to the limit of all the ditches whether it be 100 or 200 yards.

As I said the bell may work & be a useful tool & by all means try it, personally I would work on the dog & your method of hunting....

BTW A GPS on a dog? Come on!? If he could get lost & you want to find him fair enough but as a hunting tool? Bit over the top... Stick with the bell!

cavan shooter

stevoman wrote: »

i was looking at them on this site. think i might purchase for this year alright.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/dog-bells.html


if i get her setting good and steady i'l be a happy man though!

You would put those bells on a cat:D

http://www.becasse.com/Recherche/index.htm

Look at the picture that is a bell for a dog

stevoman

cavan shooter wrote: »

You would put those bells on a cat:D

http://www.becasse.com/Recherche/index.htm

Look at the picture that is a bell for a dog

holy christ no fear of losing that little beast!

Vegeta

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

I know all too well how a setting dog works my friend, i train them, I don't buy them trained.

Good for you. The reason we bought this dog was because our one was killed and we needed a replacement asap and didn't have time to train one. You cant turn 2 months into 2 years.

I use springers for heavy cover like groves/woods etc or for a change, up the ditches with one either side.

It must be nice to have the space, time, money and talent to use that many dogs. Not everyone is your position so try and see it from someone else's point of view.

Our country is very heavy & has alot of rush. My point here is that I watch the dog working, if he disappears for more than a few seconds I try to get back in contact, once i see him & I let him off again. If he doesn't come back he must be pointing & I approach where I saw him last & follow his hunting line. Odds are that you will always find him in a few steps.

And how do you this when you have sent the dog into a hole in the ditch too small for you. Or is across an isle that you cant reach on foot?

If the ground has a lot of cover he should be working over & back across you & not ranging huge distances. The more cover the more for him to work in front of you & he shouldn't be out far unless he's passing ground.

And what if you DO want him to go deep into the cover that you cant access?

As I said the bell may work & be a useful tool & by all means try it, personally I would work on the dog & your method of hunting....

BTW A GPS on a dog? Come on!? If he could get lost & you want to find him fair enough but as a hunting tool? Bit over the top... Stick with the bell!

You come across as very narrow minded here. Not everyone hunts the same type of land that you do. Bells are used quite regularly on setters and have even been replaced by collars which beep if the dog stops moving for extended periods i.e. sets and the ultimate is the GPS locator. So you actually see the dog move and stop. I have never seen one used in Ireland but have seen videos of them used in America where the land is much more open than here.

Oh and here's a link to buy some
http://www.gundogsupply.com/beeper-collars.html
http://www.gundogsupply.com/garmin-astro.html

You'll notice that's a GUN dog supply store.

EPointer=Birdss

Vegeta wrote: »

Good for you. The reason we bought this dog was because our one was killed and we needed a replacement asap and didn't have time to train one. You cant turn 2 months into 2 years.



It must be nice to have the space, time, money and talent to use that many dogs. Not everyone is your position so try and see it from someone else's point of view.



And how do you this when you have sent the dog into a hole in the ditch too small for you. Or is across an isle that you cant reach on foot?



And what if you DO want him to go deep into the cover that you cant access?



You come across as very narrow minded here. Not everyone hunts the same type of land that you do. Bells are used quite regularly on setters and have even been replaced by collars which beep if the dog stops moving for extended periods i.e. sets and the ultimate is the GPS locator. So you actually see the dog move and stop. I have never seen one used in Ireland but have seen videos of them used in America where the land is much more open than here.

Oh and here's a link to buy some
http://www.gundogsupply.com/beeper-collars.html
http://www.gundogsupply.com/garmin-astro.html

You'll notice that's a GUN dog supply store.

Your a gas man/woman getting so touchy because I disagree with you. I think as you are a mod you should limit calling people narrow minded for fear of throwing this thread into disribute!
I have repeatably stated that the chap should give it a lash & see does it work for him! I am giving MY opinion on the pro's & cons from my experiences. Is that not allowed?

To answer your comments;
All those dogs? I have referenced 2! Hardly a pack?
Space? the countryside is endless my friend?
Money? Dogs & a whistle & what few shillings I can spare!
Time? As much as I can afford to give it, as it's a hobby & I spend every free minute I have doing what I enjoy. A serious rugby injury has ended my career on that front all too early so this is something that keeps me sane & active!

I would not put a setter through a hole in a ditch. They are open field dogs. No good him setting in the middle of cover so heavy that you can't follow now is there? Or on an Isle? What are you gonna do fly over when he's setting? Your arguments are weak, if you read what you have said you are talking about scenarios where you cannot follow. I said I'd follow the dogs hunting line. If it were somewhere I couldn't get to what good is it letting him go that way?

Have you shares in those GPS collars?:)

Look I'm not hear to get thick but if you want to debate something do, getting narky because I disagree is childish! I would expect more from a mod to be honest!

Vegeta

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Your a gas man/woman getting so touchy because I disagree with you. I think as you are a mod you should limit calling people narrow minded for fear of throwing this thread into disribute!

Fair enough but I said you came across as narrow minded, not that you were narrow minded, an important distinction and the difference between personal abuse and commenting on what you posted. But since I'm the narky touchy type I'm sure you'll read what you want to read

If you have a problem with my moderation feel free to start a help desk thread where an admin of the site will address any issue(s) you may have.

I would not put a setter through a hole in a ditch. They are open field dogs.

And again what if you only have a setter/pointer who is also great in cover? Wire hairs are known for dealing with thick cover.

No good him setting in the middle of cover so heavy that you can't follow now is there? Or on an Isle?

Why? Often flushed birds will fly towards a gun or just clear the cover for a shot.

What are you gonna do fly over when he's setting?

No, give him the command to move on and hope the bird flushes to me or my partner. That's all. Not smart not touchy or narky, I don't use my setter much in this role but it works for me when I do. If I can hear him, he can definitely hear my commands.

Your arguments are weak, if you read what you have said you are talking about scenarios where you cannot follow. I said I'd follow the dogs hunting line. If it were somewhere I couldn't get to what good is it letting him go that way?

I cant follow your logic here, what are you hunting with, a sword? Sending a dog 40 yards into cover and hoping a bird will flush towards you or present a shot would not be uncommon practice I would have thought. My gun can cover a lot more ground than I can. How far into heavy cover would you allow your springer?

So if a pheasant ran into a thick hardwood plantation where it was impossible for you to follow but a dog could no problem. Are you really saying you wouldn't even let the dog in a few yards. Cause I'd let the dog in 30-50 yards, if he could and hope the bird cleared the trees and present me a shot. If I don't get a shot at least the dog has ended his trail in success.

Have you shares in those GPS collars?:)

Nope just trying to show you that people use the same tools to do different jobs.

Look I'm not hear to get thick but if you want to debate something do, getting narky because I disagree is childish! I would expect more from a mod to be honest!

I am not thick or touchy I had to give a quick response as I had a meeting in work. It may have come across as narky to you but I was just being brief.

Gortglas

I can see some merit in the bell or beeper if you are hunting heavy cover often, and despite the breed, if a dog is good to hunt cover I would let him off...

However, that GPS is feckin maad. If you are finding your dog via a handheld map, you have big ranging issues with the dog !

EPointer=Birdss

Vegeta wrote: »

Fair enough but I said you came across as narrow minded, not that you were narrow minded, an important distinction and the difference between personal abuse and commenting on what you posted. But since I'm the narky touchy type I'm sure you'll read what you want to read

If you have a problem with my moderation feel free to start a help desk thread where an admin of the site will address any issue(s) you may have.



And again what if you only have a setter/pointer who is also great in cover? Wire hairs are known for dealing with thick cover.



Why? Often flushed birds will fly towards a gun or just clear the cover for a shot.



No, give him the command to move on and hope the bird flushes to me or my partner. That's all. Not smart not touchy or narky, I don't use my setter much in this role but it works for me when I do. If I can hear him, he can definitely hear my commands.



I cant follow your logic here, what are you hunting with, a sword? Sending a dog 40 yards into cover and hoping a bird will flush towards you or present a shot would not be uncommon practice I would have thought. My gun can cover a lot more ground than I can. How far into heavy cover would you allow your springer?

So if a pheasant ran into a thick hardwood plantation where it was impossible for you to follow but a dog could no problem. Are you really saying you wouldn't even let the dog in a few yards. Cause I'd let the dog in 30-50 yards, if he could and hope the bird cleared the trees and present me a shot. If I don't get a shot at least the dog has ended his trail in success.



Nope just trying to show you that people use the same tools to do different jobs.

I am not thick or touchy I had to give a quick response as I had a meeting in work. It may have come across as narky to you but I was just being brief.

Well you seem to have a problem & i think your post come across with more than a hint of smartness & attitude. Your post since have continued on this theme also!

If I came across in a similiar vein i apologize!

When i hunt with Springers it is in 2 ways.
1. Myself & a shooting buddy either side of a big ditch with a springer either side working through it.
2. In a wood of sorts where I would walk through it as well or up the side of it with him going in & out of it. Like you said hoping for a flush.

Yes I would let him in but I would follow for a better chance of a shot. If I was with others I'd try to set up the guns for a shot.i would not stand at the hole hoping for a shot. If it was so heavy that I couldn't walk it then I'd move on & hope to meet him the next day.

I personally would not use a pointer or setter for cover so heavy that i'd lose sight so regularily i'd need a GPS or bell to find him. I think they are better suited to open/lighter country. That's my arguement & my opinion. Can you not accept I disagree & because of this you resort to being smart?

I will not explain how I hunt or my logic anymore as you obviously know more.

Fair play.

Vegeta

Look EPointer, your first post on the thread was how the bell wouldn't work as it would stop making noise if the dog set. You were wrong and I clarified that this is exactly how they are meant to work.

You continued to point out that there was obviously something wrong if the dog was going out of sight even though your first post showed you had little understanding of the use of bells.

So I guess that's my problem, people criticising a method they have little experience of. As I said that attitude can make a person appear narrow minded.

I am stating there is more than one way to use a setter and bells and beepers play a part in that. I am also stating that there is nothing wrong with letting a dog work out of sight as long as he is under control. Now I don't disagree with your point that setters are better suited to open ground, you're right they are.

I don't know more lad, I'm just more willing to look at other methods it seems

Mellor

Vegeta wrote: »

Look EPointer, your first post on the thread was how the bell wouldn't work as it would stop making noise if the dog set.

Well actually his first bit was..........

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

How far out is your setter working? Unless its a gordon surely the white is enough to keep in touch?

At which point I stopped reading :D
White setter, pfft. There's more to setters than English setters.:p
A irish or a welsh have no white at all (granted the irish R&W does)

Anyway, the semi-setter, the beloved britany is the best. And even comes in a version with white for you Epointer :D