eflow for Northern Irish customers?

Fooddestroyer

Does a car registered with a UK plate (from Northern Ireland) have to pay the M50 toll.

There doesn't seem to be an option on their site to sign up.

RangeR

I believe it's only for Irish registered cars / plates.
For the moment, anyway.

Random

I don't see the problem? Pop the reg in here https://csc.eflow.ie/myaccount/payUTT.aspx along with number of uses, then pick Motor car from the drop down and off you go?

dudara

Moved to Motors

dudara

Marlow

RangeR wrote: »

I believe it's only for Irish registered cars / plates.
For the moment, anyway.

Everybody has to pay. The question is on how far they can collect the money outside ROI, if not paid. For NI/UK they certainly will attempt to.

You might want to read this: http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=81535

/M

stealthyspeeder

Marlow wrote: »

Everybody has to pay. The question is on how far they can collect the money outside ROI, if not paid. For NI/UK they certainly will attempt to.

You might want to read this: http://www.4ni.co.uk/northern_ireland_news.asp?id=81535

/M

I can assure you they have made no such attempt!

They would have to gain access to the DVNI's database in oreder to find my address. As they are a private comapny and foriegn to the UK, if the DVLNI provided my address to them, they would be contravening 2 sections of the Data protection act.

Now assuming they did this, they cannot issue a cort summons to appear in a local court as no offence has been commited in the UK. They cannot issue a summons to appear in an ROI court as this is effectively an exradition order and is completely unenforceable.

Using a debt collection agency - If a debt collection agency called to the house, 1 call to the PSNI complaining of illegal harassment would pout a stop to that as the debt collection agency would have to prove that it was legal (as the original accuser is not within the state, they will be unable to do so). As no laws within the state have been broken by the complainent, and the debt collection agency is harrasing and making demands for money, they will be in the wrong in the eyes of the law up north.

So they may try and make me pay for the M50, and I wish them luck!

Bandara

All vehicles using the M50 must pay the appropiate toll, the eflow system has the records and registrations of all northern regs and the vehicle details come up on the system when you type in the reg.

In the case of UK regs the system accepts the reg and then asks you to state if its a car/jeep/van etc in order to allow you to pay the correct amount.

hth

JHMEG

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Ithey cannot issue a cort summons to appear in a local court as no offence has been commited in the UK. They cannot issue a summons to appear in an ROI court as this is effectively an exradition order and is completely unenforceable.

Not true. They can issue a summons and if you fail to show you can be picked up the next time you are this side of the border.

Sizzler

JHMEG wrote: »

Not true. They can issue a summons and if you fail to show you can be picked up the next time you are this side of the border.

Considering theres lads getting shot every other week that were already "known" to the Gardai and involved in criminal activity on a daily basis I think the chances of an NI driver being stopped as soon as they head south of the border is fairly unlikely!

getz

Hammertime wrote: »

All vehicles using the M50 must pay the appropiate toll, the eflow system has the records and registrations of all northern regs and the vehicle details come up on the system when you type in the reg.

In the case of UK regs the system accepts the reg and then asks you to state if its a car/jeep/van etc in order to allow you to pay the correct amount.

hth

unless eflow are reg with the DVLO in swansea and are paying the search fee,[it costs £15 per search for the owners address] they cannot find out your address in the UK,even then as the non payment of toll as[its only a civil offence]it had not been committed in the UK they could not take you to the UK courts,only criminal/ police offences may be followed up,and as we know with the irish/UK history even that may be a problem ,as ex/car park warden in england i was told not to bother booking foreign reg cars,if you can not clamp them leave them

Marlow

It might very well be, that they don't have access to the data. And it might also be, that they won't go as far as getting a court summons in the UK.

The fact stays:
- Everybody that uses the M50 has to pay the M50 toll.
- Should you not pay the toll, they will and can prosecute you.
- Should you enter Ireland with the car in question and you are spottet, you are in trouble.

They don't need the Gardai to catch you. They just need to get one of the other toll road places, where you have to stop, to call the Gardai. This might not be the case now, but it can be any day.

Before the borders got opened, they'd just catched you at the border.

/M

Bazzy

Thats bullsh*t i've been through in a norther registered car several times and never once have I recieved a notice.

If they havent go the address how can they find the registered owner. Anyway if he registered owner does get a call just tell them that they traded the car in under the scrappage scheme a long time ago the toll road people would have no way of checking it out.

Just scare tactics being used to try and get the extra few quid!

JHMEG

Sizzler wrote: »

Considering theres lads getting shot every other week that were already "known" to the Gardai and involved in criminal activity on a daily basis I think the chances of an NI driver being stopped as soon as they head south of the border is fairly unlikely!

Maybe the case, but I was referring to the point that a summons = extradition order etc etc etc

ardmacha

Using a debt collection agency - If a debt collection agency called to the house, 1 call to the PSNI complaining of illegal harassment would pout a stop to that as the debt collection agency would have to prove that it was legal (as the original accuser is not within the state, they will be unable to do so). As no laws within the state have been broken by the complainent, and the debt collection agency is harrasing and making demands for money, they will be in the wrong in the eyes of the law up north.

Complete nonsense. You cannot simply go from place to place and avoid your debts. Eflow will hand over things to Euro Parking Collection http://www.epcplc.com/. Now in practice many people who pass the odd time will do ok, but if you had a big debt then they can follow you.

Marlow

Bazzy wrote: »

Thats bullsh*t i've been through in a norther registered car several times and never once have I recieved a notice.

If they havent go the address how can they find the registered owner. Anyway if he registered owner does get a call just tell them that they traded the car in under the scrappage scheme a long time ago the toll road people would have no way of checking it out.

The OP asked if Northern Reg have to pay the toll or not. He did not ask how to (illegally) to prevent paying the toll. What I wrote is, that what you suggest might be the case now, but can change in the future. And lets face it, 15£ is nothing after 14 days, when the second fine has been slapped on (41.50 EUR). At that time it's very feasable to collect the data from the DVLA/DVLNI.

Besides that, you only receive the notice (if you receive it), once the first 3 EUR fine applies. You should have paid the toll long before that.

If you decide not to pay the toll and see if you can get away with it fine, it is however still a civil offense and enforceble. And the OP still only was asking if he's ment to pay the toll, which he indeed is.

/M

stealthyspeeder

We did get abit sidetracked, to the OP, you are definately meant to pay the toll and can eaisly enter your reg both online and at garages.

If you do not pay the toll, from my experience, nothing happens. If anything did happen, getting money out of me would cost them (or any debt collection agency) more money and manpower, than they would recoup if they eventually got the funds! (which they'd prob realise, long before they eventually prysed the money from my cold dead hands!)

Bazzy

Yes your supposed to but i've yet to hear them chase anyone and I know plenty of people who have driven through in northern registered vehicles,

And nothing has happened them

Wouldnt pay it and I wouldnt worry

Seth Brundle

Apparently 'er indoors's uncle in Belfast received a note from eflow - no idea how they got his details!

Fooddestroyer

WOW!

Touchy issue I see.:mad:

Well, the reason that I posted is because I've tried to sign up, but the Eflow website has errors in processing my order. When I called them, I got no answer at their end.

Thus, I have been passing though the M50 with a Northern Ireland (UK) reg now for over two months.

I shall try again to register online. It's just the right thing to do.

BUT, I haven't heard a cheep from Eflow looking for previous fees, but I'd say they WILL find a way in the future and make a few examples. A bit like what happened with file sharing and 'Pirate Bay'.

FD

Marlow

Tolltag (http://www.tolltag.ie) costs 30 EUR for the tag, 10% monthly fee, perfect if you're tolling very very rarely and it works for all toll roads.

The other one would be (http://www.easytrip.ie/), which also can be used for parking in some places. Prices are here: http://easytrip.ie/?page_id=37#faq19

So if the buggers at eflow don't answer, that's the other option. I believe there's 3 or 4 more tag systems, but usually more expensive.

/M

testicle

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

They would have to gain access to the DVNI's database in oreder to find my address. As they are a private comapny and foriegn to the UK, if the DVLNI provided my address to them, they would be contravening 2 sections of the Data protection act.

They're based in Newry

ballinloughan

What happens when a foreign reg car passes through the fast pass on the M1?

Sizzler

ballinloughan wrote: »

What happens when a foreign reg car passes through the fast pass on the M1?

They still have to go through a barrier do they not

Foreign reg'd cars on M50, home free, thats the reality.

Bazzy

The fast pass lane on the M1 reads the tag and the big green arrow comes up if its read correctly

if not you get a big red X and have to merge back into the traffic and pay the nice people at the toll booth

ardmacha

If anything did happen, getting money out of me would cost them (or any debt collection agency) more money and manpower, than they would recoup if they eventually got the funds! (which they'd prob realise, long before they eventually prysed the money from my cold dead hands!)

That's fine if you never expect to have to get a loan etc ever again. But most people need mortgages, car loans and so on and a bad credit record is a millstone.

Basically EFlow are a joke and whatever the legal position they aren't well enough organised to take advantage.

For the OP getting a tag may be cheaper for the M50 and is also convenient for the M1 and Port Tunnel, although they don't give a discount there (as they should).

Sizzler

ardmacha wrote: »

That's fine if you never expect to have to get a loan etc ever again. But most people need mortgages, car loans and so on and a bad credit record is a millstone.

Basically EFlow are a joke and whatever the legal position they aren't well enough organised to take advantage.

For the OP getting a tag may be cheaper for the M50 and is also convenient for the M1 and Port Tunnel, although they don't give a discount there (as they should).

Well thats if the person was resident in ROI, quite obviously they arent, thats the whole point of the thread. A civil debt left unpaid in ROI means F.A. in NI. And thats if they even bother. They probably wouldnt due to the hassle factor, much easier to pick on the punters they know they can scare, i.e. ROI Residents.

Marlow

Sizzler wrote: »

Well thats if the person was resident in ROI, quite obviously they arent, thats the whole point of the thread. A civil debt left unpaid in ROI means F.A. in NI. And thats if they even bother. They probably wouldnt due to the hassle factor, much easier to pick on the punters they know they can scare, i.e. ROI Residents.

No, from the day, they start to prosecute you in NI/UK, it'll also affect your credit rating over there. And as it was pointed out, they are based in Newry, which actually should make it quite easy for them to prosecute.

You can chance it, but it's borrowed time you're running on. If you don't care about your credit rating, then you should be fine.

/M

getz

Marlow wrote: »

No, from the day, they start to prosecute you in NI/UK, it'll also affect your credit rating over there. And as it was pointed out, they are based in Newry, which actually should make it quite easy for them to prosecute.

You can chance it, but it's borrowed time you're running on. If you don't care about your credit rating, then you should be fine.

/M

i object that the money that was used to build that motorway was paid for by the rest of us in the EU,now the irish goverment wants to charge me for driving down it,it wont happen over here /whoops i think it does

Marlow

getz wrote: »

i object that the money that was used to build that motorway was paid for by the rest of us in the EU,now the irish goverment wants to charge me for driving down it,it wont happen over here /whoops i think it does

You are welcome to petition against it, but until the law and circumstances are changed and the price is set, everybody going through has to pay and that was the question of the OP.

If you want to get around paying it (ROI or NI), there are other ways, but as they aren't legal, I won't outline them here The only legal way I see getting around it (and all other tolls) is to dump it on your employer.

/M

Sizzler

Marlow wrote: »

No, from the day, they start to prosecute you in NI/UK, it'll also affect your credit rating over there. And as it was pointed out, they are based in Newry, which actually should make it quite easy for them to prosecute.

You can chance it, but it's borrowed time you're running on. If you don't care about your credit rating, then you should be fine.

/M

They cant prosecute you in another jurisdiction!

Also, who is based in Newry?

JHMEG

Sizzler wrote: »

They cant prosecute you in another jurisdiction!

You can be prosecuted and convicted in this jurisdiction even if you live in another one.

ardmacha

You can be prosecuted and convicted in this jurisdiction even if you live in another one.

Conviction is not the issue here, this is a civil issue. You can be prosecuted wherever you live for the money you owe.

A civil debt left unpaid in ROI means F.A. in NI. And thats if they even bother. They probably wouldnt due to the hassle factor, much easier to pick on the punters they know they can scare, i.e. ROI Residents.

A lot of people with unpaid parking tickets from the likes of Dundalk thought this and were unpleasantly surprised.

Of course they might not bother, but if you made a habit of it then the amount will pile up and it is worth their while. But as a general principle it is just as easy for a debt collector to enforce a Southern parking ticket in the North as a NI one, as they are now privatised.

Sizzler

JHMEG wrote: »

You can be prosecuted and convicted in this jurisdiction even if you live in another one.

For a criminal offence yes, not civil which is how M50 tolls are enfrorced.

Cuddlesworth

Sizzler wrote: »

For a criminal offence yes, not civil which is how M50 tolls are enfrorced.

M50 tolls are enforced? That funny because I don't recall anybody being taken to court in Ireland yet.

Bandara

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

M50 tolls are enforced? That funny because I don't recall anybody being taken to court in Ireland yet.

I do. I personally know someone was taken to court and ordered to pay the outstanding fines including all applicable penalties.

Sizzler

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

M50 tolls are enforced? That funny because I don't recall anybody being taken to court in Ireland yet.

You're almost right! They tried and all of the cases were adjourned till September.

Hammertime wrote: »

I do. I personally know someone was taken to court and ordered to pay the outstanding fines including all applicable penalties.

Hmm, if that happened I would be very surprised it didnt make the papers as a means of propaganda for them to scare people into paying up etc.

JHMEG

Sizzler wrote: »

For a criminal offence yes, not civil which is how M50 tolls are enfrorced.

If you commit an offence whilst in another country you can be summonsed, prosecuted and convicted. It does not amount to extradition, and it can all be done in your absence.

Who says it's a civil issue? The eflow website states:

How do you manage foreign vehicles?
Foreign-registered vehicles using the M50 are subject to the same rules as Irish-registered vehicles.

For all motorists using the M50, whether registered or unregistered, national or foreign, the non-payment of tolls is an offence under the legislation. The National Roads Authority has therefore established a rigorous enforcement policy implemented through a trans-European enforcement agency to assist in the recovery of unpaid toll charges and fines and the prosecution of all toll evaders of Irish or foreign registered vehicles.

The onus is also on foreign motorists arriving in any country to be aware of bye-laws and rules of the road. Information is also available through motoring organisations, car hire companies and tourist bodies here and abroad.

In addition, non-payment of accruing fines and penalties makes the original offence much more serious.

Cuddlesworth

Sizzler wrote: »

You're almost right! They tried and all of the cases were adjourned till September.

Hmm, if that happened I would be very surprised it didnt make the papers as a means of propaganda for them to scare people into paying up etc.

From a personnel experience with them, my lawyer informed me that they stand on very shaky ground for anything other then the toll due.

I'm very shocked they took anybody to court.

Tonka

Fooddestroyer wrote: »

WOW!

Thus, I have been passing though the M50 with a Northern Ireland (UK) reg now for over two months.


FD

Fooddestroyer..
ive just read your thread .
have there been any developments re this period you were going thru the toll unpaid with nordy plates?
....Tonka.

Fooddestroyer

Tonka wrote: »

Fooddestroyer..
ive just read your thread .
have there been any developments re this period you were going thru the toll unpaid with nordy plates?
....Tonka.

nada.

Tonka

happy dayz hahaha

stealthyspeeder

Tonka wrote: »

happy dayz hahaha

I have a northern Reg, and I have a bill for over about a grand from EPC parking (UK company who eflow have used to collect the money) I owe less than 200 euro in toll charges, its mostly made up of fines.

These were back dated from 2008 - 2009 and arrived in a massive flurry of letters to my home in Belfast in February this year!

They give you a chance to appeal, see attached, which was turned down! so Im appealing again....

ardmacha

I have a northern Reg, and I have a bill for over about a grand from EPC parking (UK company who eflow have used to collect the money) I owe less than 200 euro in toll charges, its mostly made up of fines.

Don't worry, as many people here have said there is no way they could get you in the North. They must have contravened the data protection act and their whole effort to recover the money is illegal. Report them to the PSNI.

stealthyspeeder

ardmacha wrote: »

Don't worry, as many people here have said there is no way they could get you in the North. They must have contravened the data protection act and their whole effort to recover the money is illegal. Report them to the PSNI.

fraid not..

http://www.epcplc.com/

n receipt of the relevant judgment from the local court where the contravention occurred, the relevant authority may seek to enforce that judgment in the contravener's domiciled country. Amongst the acts forming the legal basis for this procedure is the Council Regulation (EC) 44/2001, which states that a judgment given in any signatory's state and enforceable in that state shall be enforced in any other signatory's state when, on application by any interested party, it has been declared enforceable there. Thus, an Order granted by the Parking Enforcement Centre or similar authority in other jurisdictions is a valid judgment under the terms of the Council Regulation. In the UK, the relevant authority may enforce any judgment obtained in a foreign jurisdiction under the Foreign Judgment (Reciprocal Enforcement) Act 1933. This legislation has been incorporated into the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgment Act 1982 and this act will be applied through the courts under RSC Order 71. Furthermore, treaties such as the European Convention on the Punishment of Road Traffic Offences 1964, the European Convention on Mutual Assistance in Criminal Matters 1959 and the Council Decision on the application of the principle of mutual recognition to financial penalties, may be applicable.

RangeR

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

so Im appealing again....

What's to appeal? Did you NOT use the motorway?

stealthyspeeder

RangeR wrote: »

What's to appeal? Did you NOT use the motorway?

Just trying to help out by providing some personal experience information here Sherlock.....

moonpie

Hello. I have a northern reg and have used the M50 and M1 quite frequently for the past 2 years and always pay the toll - until recently. In April I forgot until 2 days later but went onto the website and paid it anyway. I haven't heard anything, might they still prosecute?

As if that wasn't bad enough my mother and father in law went to Rosslare on the 13 July and used the M50 to go down and come back on the 17 July. This star of a son in law forgot to pay the tolls until today, 2 August!!!!!!! Do you think they'll come after them? That's all I would need

I'd just like to say that I'm quite happy to pay the tolls and can't think of any reason why someone who uses the road should get away without paying (just give me a wee but longer).