Suicide thread discussion on after hours.

AlmightyCushion

Posts copied from this thread (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055659285) on after hours. I'm moving them from the thread to prevent it going off topic.

ynotdu

Why on earth was this thread not moved to personal issues or locked?
there may be people reading this who some posters cruelty could push them over the edge.

A guy on justin.tv commited suicide by overdose last year and instead of someone ringing the emergency services they goaded him on in chat.

this thread has been highly irresponsibly moderated even for after hours.

where are the admins who are supposed to *know better*

it is too serious a topic to leave to jokes.

i know there is the report a post option,but there is so many way too much OTT posts.there is not a report a thread option!

AlmightyCushion

ynotdu wrote: »

Why on earth was this thread not moved to personal issues or locked?
there may be people reading this who some posters cruelty could push them over the edge.

A guy on justin.tv commited suicide by overdose last year and instead of someone ringing the emergency services they goaded him on in chat.

this thread has been highly irresponsibly moderated even for after hours.

where are the admins who are supposed to *know better*

it is too serious a topic to leave to jokes.

i know there is the report a post option,but there is so many way too much OTT posts.there is not a report a thread option!

Ok, I've quickly gone over the thread and I don't think there is anything here that would cause anyone to kill themselves. No one is getting abused or bullied. Some people are saying that people who kill themselves are selfish and considering the feelings of their friends and families or something similar to that. A valid opinion to have and if anything might make someone considering suicide to reconsider. A couple of stupid jokes but nothing too bad ("I killed myself before and it was a right pain" is probably the worst and I can't see how that would push anyone over the edge).

I fail to see the problem with this thread. Could you report the individual posts you are having a problem with. If you could report just one and then in the reason box link to the other posts, that would be great. Myself and the other after hours mods will go over them then.

ynotdu

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Ok, I've quickly gone over the thread and I don't think there is anything here that would cause anyone to kill themselves. No one is getting abused or bullied. Some people are saying that people who kill themselves are selfish and considering the feelings of their friends and families or something similar to that. A valid opinion to have and if anything might make someone considering suicide to reconsider. A couple of stupid jokes but nothing too bad ("I killed myself before and it was a right pain" is probably the worst and I can't see how that would push anyone over the edge).

I fail to see the problem with this thread. Could you report the individual posts you are having a problem with. If you could report just one and then in the reason box link to the other posts, that would be great. Myself and the other after hours mods will go over them then.

I have not yet developed the skills to multiquote messages.

there are too many to report.the post IMO does not belong in AH,s.
more people commit suicide than are killed on the roads each year.
if it AH,s then why are threads like this allowed to be read during the day when adolescent moody teens could read them?

jokes about suicide IMO should not be allowed even in after hours.
for one thing it is too close to home for relatives of the dead.
also unregistered/or not logged in posters who may be suicidal can read them and one cruel remark might be the catylyst to them going through with it.

there is the PI forum(much more heavily moderated as is right)
there is the medicine and biology forum,the psychiatric/psycology forums to deal with a subject so sensitive.
btw after the justin.tv suicide,on another site another guy tried the same thing,only a girl on the site had the sense to contact police.
they were able to save him via ip adress through the isp and burst down his door in time to save him.
copycat suicides happen a lot and in clusters,it could be in a school.it could be justin.tv or it could just be boards.ie someday

if boards.ie cannot see the innapropiate/wreckless posting on this thread for themselves i am helpless to do anything about it.

sincere regards.

Agonist

ynotdu wrote: »

why are threads like this allowed to be read during the day when adolescent moody teens could read them?

Hamlet considers suicide. "To be or not to be...". Should Shakespeare be banned from the Internet during daylight hours?

Replace all AH posts about suicide with this link? http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/

The OP got a variety of answers which shows that it's a valid question.

AlmightyCushion

ynotdu wrote: »

there are too many to report.the post IMO does not belong in AH,s.
more people commit suicide than are killed on the roads each year.
if it AH,s then why are threads like this allowed to be read during the day when adolescent moody teens could read them?

Moody teens could read this thread at any time any day. And I doubt a discusion on after hours about suicide would cause a moody teen to kill themselves.

ynotdu wrote: »

jokes about suicide IMO should not be allowed even in after hours.
for one thing it is too close to home for relatives of the dead.
also unregistered/or not logged in posters who may be suicidal can read them and one cruel remark might be the catylyst to them going through with it.

The jokes I seen were relatively tame and could have been much worse. We can't protect everyone from everything so we can't protect the families of suicide victims from relatively tame jokes.

ynotdu wrote: »

btw after the justin.tv suicide,on another site another guy tried the same thing,only a girl on the site had the sense to contact police.
they were able to save him via ip adress through the isp and burst down his door in time to save him.
copycat suicides happen a lot and in clusters,it could be in a school.it could be justin.tv or it could just be boards.ie someday

This thread and the justin.tv thing are two completely different things. Goading someone into commiting suicide and a discussion about suicide with some relatively tame jokes are nowhere near the same thing. If someone posted a thread saying they were going to kill themselves things would be handled a lot differently.

Carsinian Thau

I'm not sure if I'm really entitled to post with regard to this but I'm just offering an opinion so:


I read that thread and contributed one response to it.

There were a couple of jokes but in all honesty, they were very tame compared to some of the other things I've come across in AH.

By and large, most posters just answered the question as to whether they would try to stop someone or not.

The other big theme running throughout was the selfish/understandable thing.


The thread could have easily descended to extremely unacceptable depths because it is such a sensitive issue. But I don't think it did.

As for the original suggestions: it didn't belong in PI. The OP was looking for a discussion, not help. And locking the thread won't accomplish much apart from making sure that it isn't talked about. Suicide has a stigma. This silent veil that is dragged over it at all times only serves to worsen that. We need to be able to discuss this issue. (Maybe somewhere other than AH to keep it serious at all times, but if there is such a forum on boards.ie, it couldn't get as many users as AH would).

K-9

Suicide has a stigma as has mental health issues in general. I prefer it being discussed, warts and all, than being censored. For far too long it was hidden and repressed.

Yes, it is a selfish act. To a sane objective person. If somebody posts why exactly it is that and how it affects Sons, daughters, Fathers, Mothers etc. something good may come of it.

brummytom

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

As for the original suggestions: it didn't belong in PI. The OP was looking for a discussion, not help. And locking the thread won't accomplish much apart from making sure that it isn't talked about. Suicide has a stigma. This silent veil that is dragged over it at all times only serves to worsen that. We need to be able to discuss this issue. (Maybe somewhere other than AH to keep it serious at all times, but if there is such a forum on boards.ie, it couldn't get as many users as AH would).

^^ This.

I didn't start the thread for personal reasons, I was interested in what people's opinions were. The majority of people made a valuable contribution to the thread. Given past threads, it was very tame to be honest.

dr.bollocko

It's just a discussion of suicide. It's not advocating it or goading anyone into it.
I swear to **** are we just trying to wrap an entire generation of people who are aware that suicide exists in cotton wool on boards for some reason?
I mean anyone who posts on that thread is aware of the concept that if you cut them they will bleed. Nobody has goaded anybody to kill themselves, nobody is suicidal. The thread probably wouldn't have a home in PI as a general discussion of suicide either.

pablomakaveli

I don't think there's anything in the thread that would cause someone to want to kill themselves. I did'nt find the jokes to be too much. Some of them were crap but not likely to offend.

I think discussions like this are helpful as they help remove some of the stigma associated with suicide. It will hopefully show people that they can talk about it. Closing the thread would have the opposite effect.

faceman

I havent read the thread in full (I read most of the first page) and Im not going to but i dont think that nullifies my point. My family have been a victim of suicide unfortunately but would like to offer my 2c.

Suicide is still treated as a taboo in ireland. More people commit suicide in ireland each year than are killed on the roads. The topic needs to be aired more.

With regard to the thread on AH, as long as the moderation of the thread is stricter than your average AH thread and deletes inappropriate comments then I dont see why it shouldnt be allowed.

Inappropriate being defined as muppet comments or anything that isnt relevent to the discussion.

AckwelFoley

dr.bollocko wrote: »

It's just a discussion of suicide. It's not advocating it or goading anyone into it.
I swear to **** are we just trying to wrap an entire generation of people who are aware that suicide exists in cotton wool on boards for some reason?
I mean anyone who posts on that thread is aware of the concept that if you cut them they will bleed. Nobody has goaded anybody to kill themselves, nobody is suicidal. The thread probably wouldn't have a home in PI as a general discussion of suicide either.

+1

Some ignorant myths may even be dispelled in the process.

I often talk about it in a very "light" manner, shows people that someone that has depression doesnt walk around the place with a clooud over their head like the lemon in the old lemsip advert

Nevyn

Why wasn't it moved to humanities?

AlmightyCushion

Thaedydal wrote: »

Why wasn't it moved to humanities?

Well I can't speak for the others but personally I'm not a fan of moving things to humanities. A lot of threads that are started in after hours could be started in humanities and vice versa so there is some overlap in the content of the two forums. I assume if someone starts a thread in after hours they are looking for the response of the after hours user base and maybe a discussion that is a little more light hearted than humanities would offer.

kaimera

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Well I can't speak for the others but personally I'm not a fan of moving things to humanities. A lot of threads that are started in after hours could be started in humanities and vice versa so there is some overlap in the content of the two forums. I assume if someone starts a thread in after hours they are looking for the response of the after hours user base and maybe a discussion that is a little more light hearted than humanities would offer.

or they don't know Humanities exists?

only saying

Nevyn

Or that they are unware that the humanities forum exists, I would think that for the most part threads on those type of topics would be better suited to humanites as such topics were always the remit of that forum as much as I do appreicate the hard and excellent work the AH mods have been doing to bring up the tone and level of discourse in AH in certain threads but on this topic personally I wondered why it wasn't moved to humanites.

Thanks for giving your reasoning on this Almight (whoopee ) Cushion

AlmightyCushion

If I catch the thread early on I usually ask the OP if they would like it moved to a forum where a more mature discussion is more likely to happen. It's usually for threads that I think would fit in to other forums (PI would be the most common one from what I remember) but could still exist in after hours if wanted by the OP.

DeVore

I've locked it. Its not going anywhere good now imho.

I dont object to the idea of it being started there, but I also dont think that if AH wants to be the fun rock-and-roll forum it cant also claim the sensitive discussions


There are few things I wouldnt discuss and claim that discussion helps in almost every siutation in the short, middle or long term but thats predicated on logic and rationality.

Suicidal people are anything but rational and so, imho, abdicate their rights as "adults" and revert to "needing to be protected" status.


DeV.

Carsinian Thau

DeVore wrote: »

abdicate their rights as "adults" and revert to "needing to be protected" status.

I genuinely hadn't considered that tbh. But I do agree with it and it is a fair point.

DeVore wrote: »

I also dont think that if AH wants to be the fun rock-and-roll forum it cant also claim the sensitive discussions

Considering the huge user base of the forum, with proper moderating, do you think that it may be able to do both?

brummytom

DeVore wrote: »

I've locked it. Its not going anywhere good now imho.

I dont object to the idea of it being started there, but I also dont think that if AH wants to be the fun rock-and-roll forum it cant also claim the sensitive discussions


There are few things I wouldnt discuss and claim that discussion helps in almost every siutation in the short, middle or long term but thats predicated on logic and rationality.

Suicidal people are anything but rational and so, imho, abdicate their rights as "adults" and revert to "needing to be protected" status.


DeV.

Apologies DeV. I expected it to possibly touch a nerve with a few people, given it's such a touchy subject, but I only meant to provoke a discussion; nothing more.

K-9

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

I genuinely hadn't considered that tbh. But I do agree with it and it is a fair point.



Considering the huge user base of the forum, with proper moderating, do you think that it may be able to do both?

There was a thread on AH a couple of months ago on depression that was quite good. A few muppets but in general, it went well. This one could have been moderated a bit harsher.

deadhead13

K-9 wrote: »

There was a thread on AH a couple of months ago on depression that was quite good. A few muppets but in general, it went well. This one could have been moderated a bit harsher.

I agree that was a good thread. There was also another thread on suicide recently in AH - "Could you ever kill yourself?". There was a fair amount of ignorance displayed, but it was challenged and offending posts were deleted. I'm not really a regular poster in AH, but I do think there is a place there for threads like these.

DeVore

Oh look, genuinely this isnt a problem, we are all learning at this "interweb" thing... has anyone ever faced this question before?.... playing referee to the interactions of an entire country?


Why oh why do people get concerned when we get it slightly wrong occasionally... christ, I'm amazed we EVER get it right...

Physical distance, social circles and "castes" not to mention financial banding etc have conspired to ensure that people with vastly conflicting views would conveniently never have to actually face each other or hear each others points of view.

Its kinda like seeing tectonic plates crash into each other.



I'm in a weird mood today.....

DeV.

Red Sleeping Beauty

DeVore wrote: »

I've locked it. Its not going anywhere good now imho.

I dont object to the idea of it being started there, but I also dont think that if AH wants to be the fun rock-and-roll forum it cant also claim the sensitive discussions

I think a general discussion or "current affairs" forum for serious sensitive discussion is a good idea.

orestes

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I think a general discussion or "current affairs" forum for serious sensitive discussion is a good idea.

We have that already, it's called boards.ie

AlmightyCushion

orestes wrote: »

We have that already, it's called boards.ie

Pfft. That boards.ie thing will never catch on.

orestes

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Pfft. That boards.ie thing will never catch on.

Damned lack of thanks button

Have a hug instead

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

Suicidal people are anything but rational and so, imho, abdicate their rights as "adults" and revert to "needing to be protected" status.


DeV.

As soon as i find out what "abdicate" means i'll come back to you and let you know if i find that quote above mildly offensive.

AlmightyCushion

snyper wrote: »

As soon as i find out what "abdicate" means i'll come back to you and let you know if i find that quote above mildly offensive.

It means to give up or renounce.

4zn76tysfajdxp

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It means to give up or renounce.

He probably confused it for "abduct," which caught his eye in particular.

Handsome Bob

DeVore wrote: »

I dont object to the idea of it being started there, but I also dont think that if AH wants to be the fun rock-and-roll forum it cant also claim the sensitive discussions

AH claims plenty of sensitive discussions, it just depends on what you are sensitive about. One could be sensitive about depression, alcoholism, immigration, weight, looks, and height. Just a name a few that is, but all the same I have seen threads about issues on various occasions in AH.

If we are willing to let these kind of topics role in AH I don't see why suicide should be treated any differently. That's coming from someone who has been indirectly affected by suicide by the way so I'm not ignorant to the subject.