Freeview HD launch in UK

Paul Kiernan

Freeview HD is set to launch in UK on December 2nd. There should be a range of new HD Set-Top-Boxes in the UK shops to coincide will this launch. Will these new boxes be compatible with the proposed Irish DTT (and the current test transmissions)?

only if they do mpeg4.
I havent seen the spec's of them myself.

Rick_

There won't be any HD STB's released in time for the Freeview HD launch, so the HD channels will be broadcast and no-one will be able to receive them initially. You have to laugh, don't you...?!

Paul Kiernan

It looks like well into next year before the boxes and HD tellies will be widely available. They'll be using DVB-T2. Is that MPEG4? Is it compatible with Irish DTT plans?

Copied this from Home Cinema Choice:

"The European Commission is to mandate that every digital TV receiver will need to support advanced MPEG-4 compression by 2012. The move, it says, is to prevent a generation of consumers being stuck with outdated equipment.
In the past three years, MPEG-4 AVC has become the standard for high definition and is now widely used for standard definition by new digital TV services. It's twice as efficient as the MPEG-2 compression system used by the first wave of digital TV services like Freeview. In a new consultation document, the Commission says it thinks the move would create lower costs for broadcasters and consumers across the European Union. The UK is already planning to use the codec for Freeview HD, other platforms in France, Greece, Norway, Serbia and Latvia will follow.
For more click here."

Apogee

MPEGX - video compression. DVB-TX - signal modulation.

Ireland SD/HD will use MPEG4 DVB-T.
UK SD is MPEG2 DVB-T. UK HD will use MPEG4 DVB-T2.
DVB-T2 is backwards compatible with DVB-T.

scath

Paddy C wrote: »

There won't be any HD STB's released in time for the Freeview HD launch, so the HD channels will be broadcast and no-one will be able to receive them initially. You have to laugh, don't you...?!

Are you sure about that Paddy. The manufacturers have that specification DVB-T2 & MPEG4 for quite some time now and BBC have reported in their blog that stb's are part of the preparation and all is progressing well at the moment for December launch plan by the BBC/ FTA Mux plan so that unless the BBC etc delay that date chances are there will be at least one set top box available at that time.

Freeview HD boxes will work with Irish DTT because the specification from Ofcom mandates MPEG4 and DVB-T2. See statutory invitation for licenses: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dttfuture/ita.pdf page 31, Section 2.31 So answer is yes. Closer to Novemeber I'd say we'll have an indication as to Manchester (Granada switch) and if everything is on target. I wouldn't expect BBC to broadcast signal if boxes weren't going to be available so I'd say will probably be but maybe just 2 models to start. I would also expect boxes to be available first and then IDTV's to lag a number of months beyond that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/06/whats_happening_with_freeview.html

Rick_

Check out page 4 of 4 on this article : http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/36319/Installer_Newsletter_Winter_Hill_3_M_O_FINAL_13_Aug_09.pdf

reslfj

scath wrote: »

Are you sure about that Paddy?... (The) BBC have reported in their blog that stb's are part of the preparation and all is progressing well at the moment for December launch plan by the BBC/ FTA Mux plan so that unless the BBC etc delay that date chances are there will be at least one set top box available at that time.

I agree, but how many different models and the volume in shops before Christmas is anyone's guess. We may hope for some new information during IBC09 in September, but more likely not until after the next DSO's in Wales and 'Great UK-retune day' - September 30th.

Freeview HD boxes will work with Irish DTT because the specification from Ofcom mandates MPEG4 and DVB-T2.

And both RoI and the UK will mandate MPEG-4 HP @ L4 and MHEG5 in all receivers (i.e. they can receive HD 720p/1080i and HE-AAC audio)

... so I'd say will probably be but maybe just 2 models to start. I would also expect boxes to be available first and then IDTV's to lag a number of months beyond that.

The DTG said recently 2 maybe 3 boxes this year and many more including IDTV's into early next year.

I have three links from this spring:
Sony . . FreesatHD IDTV this year, FreeviewHD to follow.
Toshiba FreeviewHD early 2010
LG. . . . LG Freeview HD TVs next year

Paddy C wrote: »

Check out page 4 of 4 on this article : http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/36319/Installer_Newsletter_Winter_Hill_3_M_O_FINAL_13_Aug_09.pdf

This is not an announcement of any change in plans. Its an engineering newsletter.

All agree that there will not be anywhere near enough DVB-T2 STB's this year for the close to 3 million households in Granada, 1-2 million in other DSO areas plus 3 million in London. So a £20 MPEG-2 STB is very good practical advice for current analogue viewers in Granada.


Lars

The first few thousand STB's with HE-AAC for Norway came by plane in September 2007, but then the boat from China arrived.

scath

Given http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/36319/Installer_Newsletter_Winter_Hill_3_M_O_FINAL_13_Aug_09.pdf then I guess yere a little more up-to-date than me on it. So funny, broadcasting before equipment ready. Hmm...I guess they can do testing. When u think of it, it all times well with our DTT plans because that will mean, by Irish DTT launch, should be quite a few Freeview HD boxes about. Wouldn't Onevision be aswell go with DVB-T2 and MPEG4 stb than T-MPEG4 ones's eh? I wonder will room be made for Top-up TV in the UK post ASO? I would imagine they will go for the HD spec once another mux is freed up somewhat. Would they not be aswell move all the muxes to T2-MPEG4 when they re doing Freeview HD, thereby allowing Top-up TV to really compete and also Sky if they want to with their own offering. I don't think Freeview should get all the extra space. Pay DTT market in UK should be allowed develop more to provide more competition with other platforms.

Paul Kiernan

I think you can safely assume that in 9 months time almost every TV on sale in the UK will support DVB-T2. There should also be budget boxes available. This augurs well for the Irish DTT launch (if it ever happens!).

Of course, what Irish people will really want is a combined Freeview/Freesat HD box (with an integrated EPG) and it is difficult to see any market demand in the UK for these.

As things stand I look like having a plasma TV with useless analog and digital receivers, a terrestrial STB, a satellite STB, a myriad of remote controls, and a logistical nightmare trying to record programs.

PS I know people will start pointing out that receivers like the MVision HD200 Combo are available but the lack of proper EPG and mass market support leaves me a little bit cautious on these.

bk

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Of course, what Irish people will really want is a combined Freeview/Freesat HD box (with an integrated EPG) and it is difficult to see any market demand in the UK for these.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Freesat has channels that aren't on Freeview and vis a versa. I'd imagine it would be quiet popular in the UK.

The cost of adding a DVB-T2 tuner to a Freesat HD box shouldn't be much, they can share all the other gear, MPEG 4 decoders, etc.

Zonda999

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Of course, what Irish people will really want is a combined Freeview/Freesat HD box (with an integrated EPG) and it is difficult to see any market demand in the UK for these.

Yea, one of them would be perfect for us alright. Cant see why anyone in the UK might want one though!. Every freeview HD channel will be available on freesat, with the exception of channel 4 HD maybe

bk wrote: »

The cost of adding a DVB-T2 tuner to a Freesat HD box shouldn't be much, they can share all the other gear, MPEG 4 decoders, etc.

Sounds a bit more realistic alright

sesswhat

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

Of course, what Irish people will really want is a combined Freeview/Freesat HD box (with an integrated EPG) and it is difficult to see any market demand in the UK for these.

Can you make mine a PVR as well?

Paul Kiernan

sesswhat wrote: »

Can you make mine a PVR as well?

Of course, that goes without saying. And maybe a wireless interface so video files can be up/downloaded to/from a PC for archiving (subject to copy restrictions, of course).

Sam Russell

Humax have a stb which receives Mpeg4

http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/product_stb_terrestrial_hdci2000t.asp

I do not know if it will work with the Irish spec but it looks like it would. They also make the Foxsat HDR, so if they could combine the two, and integrate the EPG, we would have what we want.

Paul Kiernan

Yes, it does look like it will work with the current Irish (test) transmissions. But it doesn't appear to be DVB-T2, so it won't work with UK HD transmissions. Also, when the Irish DTT comes around it may well be DVB-T2, T3 or even T20.

watty

people that can get DTT HD will not pay 50% for a few extra 3rd rate channels.

People mostly only get Freesat because they can't get DTT.

bk

watty wrote: »

people that can get DTT HD will not pay 50% for a few extra 3rd rate channels.

But it won't likely cost 50% extra, I'd estimate it would only add about 10% to the cost of a Freesat box.

You'd just need to add a DVB-T2 tuner, the mpeg4 decoder, cpu, ram, HDD, etc, would all be shared.

Perhaps the Freesat org won't allow it, but you can bet you will see a flood of FTA boxes with both DVB-T2 and DVB-S2,

Apogee

Paul Kiernan wrote: »

I think you can safely assume that in 9 months time almost every TV on sale in the UK will support DVB-T2.

Considering the paucity of DVB-T2 tuners/chipsets on the market, not to mind TVs, that's not a particularly safe assumption.

kuro_man

Sam Russell wrote: »

Humax have a stb which receives Mpeg4

http://www.humaxdigital.com/global/products/product_stb_terrestrial_hdci2000t.asp

I do not know if it will work with the Irish spec but it looks like it would. They also make the Foxsat HDR, so if they could combine the two, and integrate the EPG, we would have what we want.

I have a hdci2000t and it picks up Irish DTT (but not MHEG text). It was used in London for the Crystal Palace HD trial only - I don't think humax sold them for general use. I had to flash the firmware to get it to work here. You can pick them up on ebay now and again - make sure is it hdci2000t not hdci2000, which is a sat receiver that looks identical. Probably best to wait for a pvr.

Zonda999

bk wrote: »

Perhaps the Freesat org won't allow it, but you can bet you will see a flood of FTA boxes with both DVB-T2 and DVB-S2,

Yes, and surely one of them will have cracked the freesat epg leaving us with a perfect box for the best in FTA television over here:D.

Thats the hope anyway!

Rick_

That's what I hope too, I'd also like it to have PVR functionality and also a lovely HD res OSD like the Humax Foxsat which allows you to make your own channel list by mixing and renaming DSAT and DTT channels as you see fit.

If one of those came along I would cancel Sky and replace it with one of these boxes, and probably put one in every room I currently have satellite now as every TV is capable of receiving UK and ROI DTT and all but one have a connection from the Sky dish which is easily rectified! Everyone has their own STB to play with and with better channels [than standard Freesat anyway] and all in digital quality [apart from ITV of course ]!