Bray Incident and how we perceive Crime.

Handsome Bob

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0816/bray.html

I know this topic has been done in After Hours, however I would like to address it here. I don't know the facts of what happened in Bray nor will I comment on it, however I would like to discuss the issue the case has brought up; how we perceive crime in this country.

A few months back Finn Colclough was found not guilty of murder but guilty of the manslaughter of Sean Nolan.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1101/1225321622457.html

What I remember so vividly about this case is the great pains people went to, to excuse the Colclough of what happened. He was out of his face on drink. He had smoken a few joints. Even claims of mental illness were made.

Now lets look at another case of a few years back;

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1220/higginsa.html

Anthony Higgins was stabbed to death by Dunne and Dunne duly got what he deserved. No excuses were made for Dunne and rightfully so.

What I'm saying is that when it suits us, we will gladly rejoice in justice being done to those who take the life of another. However seemingly when these things arrive too close to home, we change our tune. All of a sudden those who dismissed one person as a "scumbag", are clamming up and telling us to "shut up because we don't the facts" in regards to the act of another.

If mods feel this topic cannot be discussed then that's fine with me, I justed wanted to see if we could get a better discussion going in Humanities rather than AH (no disrespect intended towards AH).

philologos

LZ5by5: this is an interesting post. For me, it is irrelevant what socio-economic group people come from. For others it may not be the case. I think in assessing crime, we must be equal in reviewing cases irrespective of how rich and poor people are.

I don't think mental illness is a grounds that can be applied when a person had taken illegal substances, and abused legal ones as in the case of Finn Colclough. He was responsible, and he should have borne the full weight of the law in that case with means of rehabilitation in prison.

I think if we don't apply fair standards to all people, we risk miscarrying justice. Arguably it has been done already.

Ickle Magoo

I'm certain that the area people are brought up in should have absolutely no bearing on their being innocent or guilty in a court of law.

As for joe public using the "scumbag" prosecution; until statistics show that people from deprived neighbourhoods or backgrounds have no more likelihood of exhibiting criminal behaviour than those who haven't, then baseless assumptions are going to made about the respective populations - in both directions.

gogglebok

The justice system is weighted towards the segments of society that have most power. That's probably inevitable in any system staffed by human beings. We have a natural tendency to go easy on "people like us", whatever that is.

It's wider than the bias of people involved in the legal system. Look at the weird rage that is expressed over on AH about perfectly harmless aspects of working class culture. The word "scumbag" sometimes means a violent criminal. Sometimes it means a teenage girl wearing pyjamas outdoors. Is it any wonder working class people get a raw deal? (Or middle class people get an easy ride, whichever perspective you prefer.)

PCPhoto

OP .... having read both news reports i can see your point ...but what of other cases where children were killed:
Robert Houlihan - killed by Wayne O'Donoghue and the Jamie Bolger killers are the only ones that spring to mind (and the Bolger killers was in England)

- The media went to town on him(O'Donoghue) when it was exposed what had happened and I believe that he's began legal actions for libel against some of the media which branded him a paedo.

with the Finn Colclough case its a serious case of parents who dont discipline or dont take interest in their kids life, he was on medication - he was allowed to drink at a family function - despite being underage, my understanding is that he was provoked and from what I believe the victim in this case was your typical (come and have a go type) .... in saying that I have no sympathy for Colclough - he made his decision and has to live with the consequences.

another case to look at would be the "Anabells" (probably spelled wrong) .... the only one of them to actually goto jail for any length of time was the one who admitted it straight away - the rest used mammy and daddy's money to use the system and they walked free.(compared to a lengthy jail term)

97i9y3941

i still think theres one law for the rich,and one law for the poor,only have to look at the tribunals and no-one was sent to jail,frank dunlop who carried bribes was used as a scapegoat whilst those who received the actual brides got away scot free,i remember case years ago of the yob posh students who attacked and killed a another student outside nightclub,granted they coundnt be sure who did the fatal blows,but the sentenceing for these yobs was deferred so they could continue their studies...

Kalashnikov_Kid

It all comes down to what type of people have the time, money, social standing, connections and intellectual conviction to use the system (be it legal, health, planning, education etc.) to their utmost advantage in order to achieve their end goal, and those who dont.

This is certainly not exclusive to Ireland and is unfortunately how the law of the land tends to work in this day and age.

stovelid

I think that the media handling of the Bray case has been pretty instructive too. All the hand-wringing and 'laid to rest' stuff.

Obviously it's a terrible thing to happen; a genuinely tragic incident, but I honestly think a few tweaks to the facts and it would have been different.

If somebody from a working class background, suffering from depression, had done the same thing to another man from the same background, I doubt there would have been the same emphasis on loss and tragedy.

Obviously, the point here about people from deprived background being statistically overrepresented in violent crime is very true. I accept that this makes cases like the Colclough and Creane killings more rare, and as a consequence, more newsworthy, but the media do often directly apportion worth to one, and not to the other.