Why BMW leaving F1 could be a VERY bad sign for car enthusiasts...

pburns

I've been thinking about this the last week or so. BMW have been leading the environmental charge to an extent with 'efficent dynamics' which is all quite laudable.

However, BMW surprised the F1 paddock recently (and it's drivers) by making quite an unexpected decision to leave the sport. Rumour has it that it was a snap decision by the board and based on future strategy objectives.

Dr. Norbert Reithofer, chairman of the BMW board, said: "Premium will increasingly be defined in terms of sustainability and environmental compatibility.
Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/239251/bmw_quits_f1.html#ixzz0OxEW2MNT

Also see: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/242108/

Although results have been bad this year they won a race last year and could have challenged for the championship but for a corporate decision to concentrate on 2009 (another story - Robert Kubica was not amused...)

Whatever you think about F1 (and BMW produced great cars long before they entered the sport) I find the above statement more than a little worrying. It seems it's not excitement or driver enjoyment or the promise of 'the ultimate driving machine' that will underpin BMW's future 'premium' image, it's 'sustainability and environmental compatibility'.:(

I'm not saying BMW shouldn't try to produce the most environmentally-friendly cars possible within their market segments. It just seems a little worrying that this has now been set at the top of their corporate agenda rather than the traditional qualities...

partyatmygaff

Well from what we can all see, very few people buy a BMW for its enviromental compatibility and sustainibility. They focus on that and Audi and Mercedes will absolutely steal all their market share.

Zonda999

Only time will tell really. Although in the past few months at least they haven't really shown any signs their gonna stop making truly fast cars. For example, the new 760i V12 only went into production a couple of months back. As long as theres a market for performance cars, there will be performance cars. Cant see any decline in the performance car market for a good bit uet tbh..

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

"Premium will increasingly be defined in terms of sustainability and environmental compatibility."

Key word is premium. I think this means they feel that in the future if it's doesn't appear to be environmental then it'll be on the back foot. It's also an area that Lexus are going leading the way into, with some high profile wins like the LS600h being the chosen car for royalty and heads of government.

BMW brought out their first full hybrid last week, the 4.4 litre X6. Fuel economy is brutal, tho not as brutal as the non-hybrid version. But they can say it's environmental because it's a hybrid (and Lexus are already there sort of with the RX). Will it sell more (in certain markets) than the vanilla X6? Sure it will.

It all comes down to money. At the end of the day, which will make them more.. competing in F1 or a hybrid X6?

BMW will continue making hot saloons and coupes, tho they haven't had an actual sports car in a long time. Who knows tho, with the 220mph Lexus LFA soon to be released that might change...

Bad for F1 fans, maybe. Bad for car enthusiats, no.

pburns

JHMEG wrote: »

Key word is premium. I think this means they feel that in the future if it's doesn't appear to be environmental then it'll be on the back foot.

Yeah but I think moving forward EVERY manufacturer will have make environmentally sound cars - fuel consumption, re-cyclability and manufacturing processes (one that isn't often mentioned but should be). It's not like it's gonna be a unique USP.

Look at the way Volvo traded off their safety image for years. In the '90s all the manufacturers made serious inroads into increasing road safety (because NCAP meant it was now measurable). Does anyone really believe an S40 is safer than a Focus these days? Or that an S60 offers better crash protection than a 5-series?

I just think BMW need to be careful they don't throw the baby out with the bath-water and become too obsessed with placating those of a green tinge.

Voodoomelon

Zonda999 wrote: »

For example, the new 760i V12 only went into production a couple of months back. As long as theres a market for performance cars, there will be performance cars. Cant see any decline in the performance car market for a good bit uet tbh..

Just to side track for a moment, I can't wait to see what they do with this new V12, Mercedes deserve the credit in bringing the V12 back a few decades ago but BMW always do a fantastic job with that engine. Hopefully this will be the latest and greatest V12 to date; there's something so so special about these monsters.

ianobrien

Just reading in the Motorsport News that thanks to BMW pulling out of F1, MINI may get the money to compete in the WRC with the new MINI Crossover.

Ah, Hopkirk in a Mini in the Monte........

Saab Ed

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Mercedes deserve the credit in bringing the V12 back a few decades ago

Just dont mention that to Jaguar buffs who'll politely remind you that it never went away until recently

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_V12_engine

And just on the BMW thing being a loss to motorsport, well I say good riddens. They arrived in full of German blunder , won nothing with Williams so blamed Williams ( one of the most sucessfull teams ever ), Bought Sauber and won nothing and then decided to jump ship. Worst bit is that Peter Sauber wanted to buy the team back but they wouldnt sell it back to him, presumably out of fear that he knows more than they do and might actualy win something in "their" car. Brawn being a good reference point here. Peter Sauber is quoted somwhere as saving its his most bitter moment in his F1 time. BMW almost felt they deserved to win something but it doesnt work like that. Despite all the "Ultimate driving machine" stuff of recent times the reality is that BMW's motorsport trophy cabinet isnt exactly packed. They won races as an engine supplier ( basicaly a turbo'd 2.0 litre from a 70's 3 series ,the history of I dont have time for now ) and a one car class with the M1. Now apart from some touring car winners in modern times can anybody explain to me for one moment why BMW thought they'd just show up and win. Like FFS Skoda have more motorsport trophies in the cabinet

maidhc

According to Bernie it is because they didn't win stuff as quickly as they thought they might.
http://msn.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5459906,00.html

As an aside... does anyone actually believe BMWs are more of an ultimate driving machine than its competitors?

F1 could actually get interesting again with strong personalities like Brawn and Williams being to the helm rather than faceless corporate strategies.

TomMc

^^^ +1.

Renault in particular have a track record in Formula one over the past few decades, that makes BMW's recent efforts and all their big talk of what they would achieve, look foolish.

F1 was and is best when teams are run by independents, with personnel who have a lifelong passion and commitment to the sport, not by motor manufacturers who think they can hijack it as a passing fancy, using it as little more than a marketing tool.

This is just all BMW marketing / corporate speak (for the age we live in) to save face. They failed in F1, period.

Saab Ed

TomMc wrote: »

^^^ +1.



This is just all BMW marketing / corporate speak (for the age we live in) to save face. They failed in F1, period.

And thats just it. I second some of the above statements about the private teams making a come back. Like just look at the waste over the years from the so called " big boys". Jaguar ( badly run Ford really ) , BMW, Honda and not to mention that money toilet that is Toyota, some one needs to sack the accountant in there who signed off another F1 season .

pburns

^^^In other words Max Mosley was right all along:eek:

I don't see much co-relation between a winning F1 team and great road cars. I agree tho that we need to get rid of the corporate manufacturers and get the 'racers' back running the teams - the next generation of Frank Williams' and Ron Dennis'. Even old EJ - he's considered a bit of a motormouth but he was a personality and ran a bloody sucessful operation.

Rallying has given us greater road cars and there is a very clear relationship between forest stage and road car - from the Minis and old Escort RS right down to the Scoobies and Lancers of more recent times.

(BTW - what the hell are Citroen at not capitalising on this and producing a stoking road-car that will act as a halo model and undo some of the damage done by Peugeot using the marque as it's bargain basement brand...)

Dartz

Don't you know, car enthusiasts are worse than Hitler these days. Hitler murdered 40 million people, but collectively we're warming the world, cooking thousands of species to death, culpable for the US invasion of Iraq and the reason why it only ever rains every summer because as every right-thinking scientist knows, the climate never changed on its own.

maidhc

pburns wrote: »

(BTW - what the hell are Citroen at not capitalising on this and producing a stoking road-car that will act as a halo model and undo some of the damage done by Peugeot using the marque as it's bargain basement brand...)

Excellent point!

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

(BTW - what the hell are Citroen at not capitalising on this and producing a stoking road-car that will act as a halo model and undo some of the damage done by Peugeot using the marque as it's bargain basement brand...)

Because Peugeot control things and Citroen is the cheapo brand.

Saab Ed

[quote=pburns;61752610
Rallying has given us greater road cars and there is a very clear relationship between forest stage and road car - from the Minis and old Escort RS right down to the Scoobies and Lancers of more recent times.

[/quote]

And lets not forget the ordinary stuff that gave us such great racing from the early to mid ninties in British touring car racing. John Cleland banging wheels with Will Hoy and so on...all done in lowly Vectras and Carinas.

Bluefoam

I don't think BMW leaving F1 has any impact whatsoever. I'm not sure what their heritage in the sport is, but I have to say that I don't recognise them as part of the heritage of F1...

Their recent stint in the sport was a poorly executed marketing ploy with very little race/market success...

The benefits are much easier to recognise in a team like Ferrari - who actually sell cars based on their F1 success + the technology gets implemented into their super cars and eventually into their consumer level cars - prime example is the selespeed gearbox in Alfas which was an F1 innovation, then used in Ferrari's and eventually the Alfa 156 etc...

It is great to market Fiats next to Ferrari F1 cars when things are going well & then forget the connection when they aren't so good. The same cannot be said for BMW - any racing result reflects on their entire range...