Blood or urine ?

SIDESHOW BOBs

buddy of mine last night , 3 drinks in an hour ,after leaving pub,sitting in her car looking for her phone, 5 mins walk home when window tapped by a one bulb.

failed breath test.

no moral issues here

should she have given a blood or urine sample , other salient fact was lacking in vittles

Overblood

Eh?

jumpguy

Had she the engine started?

TanG411

I assume you're on about drink driving?

El Guapo!

You speaka de english??

banshee_bones

Sorry. What?

arybvtcw0eolkf

After three drinks most buuuurds need to pee - I'd have went for the goldenshower urine test.

.

SIDESHOW BOBs

drink driving not the issue here, i am wondering is she better to have given a blood or urine sample . the car keys were in her hand and the pauncharillo wannabee is insisting that he will do her all the way and her defence of looking for her phone with the intention of walking home will not stand up in court

shenanigans1982

She should have offered him a BJ test....if he took it she walks away.

I thought the keys had to be in the ignition for you to be charged, remember hearing a story of a guy falling asleep in his car with the keys in the ignition and getting charged but its most likely just a story.

Overheal

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

She should have offered him a BJ test....if he took it she walks away.

I thought the keys had to be in the ignition for you to be charged, remember hearing a story of a guy falling asleep in his car with the keys in the ignition and getting charged but its most likely just a story.

I thought that was a PI thread back in 07 actually. maybe im remembering it wrong.

shenanigans1982

Overheal wrote: »

I thought that was a PI thread back in 07 actually. maybe im remembering it wrong.

BJ's for walkaways?;)

DigiGal

Ce?

Quazzie

As long as the keys are on your person you can be done for drink driving because as you are in possession of the keys you are technically in control of the car. The keys don't have to be in the ignition. I've slept in my car a few times after drinking as I had no other way home, but I've always made sure to leave the keys in the closed boot, and this ahs worked to my benefit as more than once I've been woken by a cop asking if I've been drinking and he couldn't do a thing as the keys were in the boot so therefore it was impossible for me to stat the car.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

timmywex

The offence is being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle.


And you cant just opt for a blood/urine test because you want one afaik....

Tigger

[tigger-chemist-mode] The most accurate and impeachable method for determination of the bllod alcohol level (the acual standard) is the testing of the blood. So if you are innocent then blood is the "best" and if guilty then blood is the "worse". However the intoxiliser breath test is the test of choice in most cases nowadays, I would have thought that thats what would have been preformed. [/tigger-chemist-mode]

's far as i know the transfer of vapourouros alcohol from yer blood to yer expired lung gasses is dependant on the amoubnt of o2 being processed and the amount of waste (c02 water and alcohol in the water) being excreeted though the lungs

therefore it is fair to presume that since hyperventillation temperorary purges and stops the transfer og gases throught the lung membrane then deep breathingh to the point of hyperventillation can dramatically reduce the eoth reading on an intoxilliser or on the garda hand held testers

i purchased a tester a while ago and this jholds true for me anyway

so if you are being tested i reccomend som very deeop breathing before blowing into the tester

Hyperventilation and breath holding respectively decreased and increased the calculated relative values. Furthermore, they also respectively decreased and increased the measured exhaled breath temperature and the actual final BAC reading. Data on paired normal-hyperventilation deliveries and paired normal-breath hold deliveries are provided in Table 2. Under these test conditions, the effect of hyperventilation was more pronounced than that of breath holding in that the BAC and temperaure alterations were of greater magnitude.

Table 2
Effects of Hyperventilation and Breath Holding in Paired Tests

BAC (g/100 mL) temp. (°C) BAC (g/100 mL) temp. (°C) BAC (g/100 mL) BAC (%) temp. (°C)
n=51* normal hyperventilation differences
mean 0.078 34.2 0.071 33.4 -0.007 -9.4 -0.8
std dev 0.028 0.7 0.027 0.8 0.004 6.2 0.6
n=35 normal breath holding differences
mean 0.072 34.1 0.076 34.5 0.004 4.5 0.4
std dev 0.025 0.7 0.027 0.7 0.004 5.0 0.4

*number of paired tests, normal / hyperventilation
** standard deviation
The impact of BAC differences caused by differences in the volume of breath sample delivered is important for jurisdictions that use duplicate breath testing. Based upon a minimum volume requirement of 1.5 L and normal-type sample delivery, the differences in volume of sample delivered may, in extreme cases, cause differences in the BAC result as great as 20 % of the higher reading . Gullberg (1987, 1988) cites a tolerance for duplicate breath testing of 0.02 g/100 mL, or ± 10 % of the average result of the two tests. Setting the tolerance too tight could easily lead to failure of a subject to meet the criteria simply due to variation in delivery volume or breathing style just prior to delivery. It should also be noted that the (potential) absolute effects of hyperventilation or breath holding are the combination of the difference outlined in Table 2, plus the relative effect detailed in Table 1, if the subject provides only enough breath sample to just satisfy the minimum volume requirements.

An assesmment was made of the BAC-volume relationship with respect to lung function. A trend of decreasing percentage of final BAC values was observed with increasing lung vital capacity of the subject. The trend was evident with normal and hyperventilation type breath samples, yet less pronounced for breath holding.

genericguy

SIDESHOW BOBs wrote: »

drink driving not the issue here, i am wondering is she better to have given a blood or urine sample . the car keys were in her hand and the pauncharillo wannabee is insisting that he will do her all the way and her defence of looking for her phone with the intention of walking home will not stand up in court

i see what quazzie's saying here, but she'll well walk away on that, she wasn't actually driving.

Quazzie

genericguy wrote: »

i see what quazzie's saying here, but she'll well walk away on that, she wasn't actually driving.

Its all very Minority Report-ish but th Guard can claim that he was preventing the ineviible situation of her driving home. What she should have done as she was only going to be in the car for a few seconds was to open the car, put the keys on the roor, get into her car, get her phone and then get back her keys*. That way she was never in the car with the keys, and can claim she never had any intention other than getting her phone. As long as she was caught in her car, with the keys she has no real way to prove she wasn't going to drive.

*Obviously this wouldn't work in a city/large town but I live in the country so thats what I'd do.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

rubadub

timmywex wrote: »

And you cant just opt for a blood/urine test because you want one afaik....

I thought you could, my mates knows a lot of gardai and said you should insist on a blood test everytime, this is since they need a doctor to perform it, and if late at night and in remote areas it could take hours before they can get a doctor who can perform the test, and you might have it out of your system by then.

I would like to see the actual law and if it actually mentions "key", and the definition of it, seeing as many cars do not need keys to start them anymore.

Quazzie

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I know. But she was technically in charge of the car as she was in it with the keys, and thats what they charge you with.

Tiimmywex said it better actually.

timmywex wrote: »

The offence is being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle.

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Super-Rush

A guy in Carlow was charged with drink driving a couple of years back while sitting in his car charging his phone so he could ring for a taxi. The taxi showed up while the Guards were there and the driver even spoke in his defense in court and he was still done for it.

El Siglo

Tell her to get a good solicitor.

bazjnr

rubadub wrote: »

I thought you could, my mates knows a lot of gardai and said you should insist on a blood test everytime, this is since they need a doctor to perform it, and if late at night and in remote areas it could take hours before they can get a doctor who can perform the test, and you might have it out of your system by then.

I would like to see the actual law and if it actually mentions "key", and the definition of it, seeing as many cars do not need keys to start them anymore.

Firstly tell your mates that their garda friends need to go back to templemore and do some study cos the arrested person cannot insist ona blood test. The Garda can decide whether to perform (1) an evidential breath test or (2) either a blood test, or a person can opt for a urine test. The Garda can also make you do both.

Have a read of this: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0007/sec0013.html

Definition of the drunk in charge is here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1994/en/act/pub/0007/sec0011.html

Also the sample needs to be taken within 3 hours of driving or attempting to drive or intending to drive. If a doctor cannot be found within that time and it is not possible to carry out an evidential breath test the person doesn't get away with it. The Garda reverts to a Drink Driving Simplicitor which is a prosecution based on witness and Garda observations of the accused.

The law is well tested in all aspects of this scenario. As El Siglo said she needs to talk to a good solicitor.

RandolphEsq

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's a conspiracy by publicans and taxi drivers. The two biggest shower of cnuts in business. Seriously hate both groups

biko

DigiGal wrote: »

Ce?

Que?
Che?

Korvanica

did you learn yourself to spoke?

ANXIOUS

Quazzie wrote: »

As long as the keys are on your person you can be done for drink driving because as you are in possession of the keys you are technically in control of the car. The keys don't have to be in the ignition. I've slept in my car a few times after drinking as I had no other way home, but I've always made sure to leave the keys in the closed boot, and this ahs worked to my benefit as more than once I've been woken by a cop asking if I've been drinking and he couldn't do a thing as the keys were in the boot so therefore it was impossible for me to stat the car.

Thats not true, had a case last week that was thrown out the gardai have to prove that you intended to drive. I'll look for the link now.

pickarooney

She should've pretended she was nicking the car and got off with a warning.

El Siglo

This is what she should have done:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-GGEJRz6So